General Music Chat

What I want to know is .... for that $300 you talk about ... just how many people did "YOU" put in the seats?

And do keep in mind that you must minus the people that would have showed up anyway even if you didn't.

In short again..... what exactly was the marginal increase in fan base count because "you" preformed?

You can't say .... oh ... I desever $100 more because I carried 3 boxes of wires, setup 4 instruments, had trouble finding my shoes, and had to stop twice because of a flat tire.

Sure you can, mage....and I do. When I do a solo show, it's not just the fee. I add a small amount of labor and travel expense to the bill. And its almost never questioned. It's how things are done, really, and for some events they even offer you a food and extras per diem.

If I do nothing else in this thread, I would want to see if I can help lift our view out of the dismal nightclub/bar scene. That is but ONE (and a lousy one) venue among hundreds. Let's expand our horizons, for pity sake.

Ok .... set the scene ..... name these expanded horizons.

I believe I've already named a few - to reiterate, the festival curcuit (arts festivals and cultural events) small hall concerts, various private events like gallery openings, house concerts, opening gigs for larger act concerts....it's a bigger world out there than just the outdated and shitty paying nightclub/bar scene.

All it takes is some thought and creativity and some elbow grease.

and some don't. There's no rhyme or reason to how many people show up. More often than not the bar is making money whenever we play, I always ask the bartenders how they did that night. It's really irrelevant how many people we draw. There's other factors that determine the crowd: weather, if there's a big sporting event in town that night, etc. The bottom line is that having a band is an investment for a club. Just as advertising and marketing is an investment for a club. Tables, chairs, decorations, etc. are all investments for a club. It doesn't seem to matter who plays at these clubs, they are all paying about the same ($300-$400) for ALL the bands. It's a form of collusion. There's so many bands trying to play in so few places, the owners are RAKING money in off ALL of us. Playing other venues is a good idea, I understand there's other venues out there. I enjoy playing bars, it's what I've done forever. We're making the same or LESS money than we did back in the 80's. Something's WRONG with this picture. Our expenses are MUCH HIGHER than they were in the 80's. Perhaps if we were ALL in a union the situation would change for the better. Or maybe bars would stop having live music and switch to DJ's or karaoke (a lot already have). It's just a shame to see such great musicians playing for such paltry wages. Later...

muzicmage I have a question for you. This singer that you are pushing (I believe her name is "Natalie"?)...are you her exclusive agent/manager or do you just handle her online CD sales?

Oof ( shot to the midsection)

LOL I love managers, baked, broiled or fried.

I handle her complete online status, CD sales, products, Websites, postings, pictures, fans, promotion, etc. etc.

I encourage talents to have 2 managers .... one for offline ... and one for online. NOT one manager for both.

So yes .... I am her exclusive manager ..... for online status. There are 5 of us to my team...

Myself (Career Manager) Melinda (Research) Michelle (Web/Graphic Designer) Lynn (Publicist) and Candice (Radio Ad Manager).

I am about to redo her online image for the Christmas Campaign. There are some bumps in the way she is setup now ... but it must change soon for the coming holiday season so i'm waiting a couple weeks to get that started.

Should she need assistance offline .... i'm here for her. Till then .... I just do my job as agreed... and take care of her online.

Sounds nice.. Wish I was in on that type of image correction type setup.

I am about as "PC" as an assault rifle on the gun rack in the back window of your local pick up truck.

I handle her complete online status, CD sales, products, Websites, postings, pictures, fans, promotion, etc. etc.

I encourage talents to have 2 managers .... one for offline ... and one for online. NOT one manager for both.

So yes .... I am her exclusive manager ..... for online status. There are 5 of us to my team..

OK, that makes sense. What I'm about to say I mean in the most positive way: I was sort of concerned that you didn't appear to see any career moving performances for Natalie outside of nightclubs and bars (see the "new horizons" post). But since she has an "offline" manager too, I sincerely hope that person is really being creative with the venue opportunities and helping her develope her career. This is serious biz for the artist.

I absolutely agree with you irminsul ... 100%. I've been following your posts on the giging matter .... and find them helpful .... especially the info on the union. However ..... when it comes to Natalie ... thats not exactly my department.... nor within my boundry of decision.... not unless I can tie it in to Online Matters.

Thanks for your comments.

I will put my input about the 'WORK' involved with a local cover band, Let alone, Being on the road. I have been self employed in the construction buisness (Drywall,Paintig,Carpentry,etc.) for longer than I can remember. Union wages in this area are around $22.oo an hour. Thats not much money, When the laborers union scale is higher. And its getting worse. So, I am used to physical labor. Now! Playing from 9:00PM until 1:00AM, In a local cover band. You are lucky if your out the door by 2 or 3:00AM. And when you get home, Your adrenalin is still pumping, So sleep is not in the forecast. And if you are a vocalist, Multiply everything double. A vocalist really has to monitor their health alot closer, etc. I once lost at least 2 or 3lb's doing a show back in the 70s, Of course, Stage lights were a lot hotter than todays are. Even so, It is 'DAMN' 'HARD WORK'! I've seen the sunrise, Mornings before I got to sleep. I can always tell when someone has never really experienced the physical aspect it takes to be a 'Live Performer'. $50.oo an hour, Would be a fair base pay I could agree with, (For starters) If your that good. There is no comparison to a, simple, Bar Band. Than to, Sitting behind a computer? Of course, Alot of people thinks it all one big fun party! Playing in a band. Dont get me wrong, I Love It! The Best High, One Could Ask For. [Well....] except for pill's....(Just Kidding Guy's). I had to say that, Couldnt resist. Damn Hard Work! (Turn The Page-Bob Seger). Imagine being in a circuit band, On the road. Not for me, Doesnt pay enough money.

Yeah it's tough out there sometimes when club owners suddenly have a case of the disappearing flu when it comes time to pay up. They have to realise that we are bringing in the customers and filling their till from the bar so we deserve a piece of the pie too.
Most time my band plays for the take on the door and we have our own person working there to keep the club owners fingers out of the pot. I've had to get physical and obnoxious with a few club owners in the past. Thats why our frontman can get away with the line "I'll sic my bulldog on you if you don't pay up." when we're dealing with shysters.
We play a lot of gigs throughoiut the year and those gigs are generally a lot of fun, but when you look at it, we spend a lot of time in rehearsal and spend a lot of money on instruments so it's only right that we be remunerated for our performances. Playing for charity is of course a different matter and we'd have to be less than human to see it otherwise. Although there are a lot of those out there who refuse to play for charity. Maybe they don't see it as free advertising the way we do as it gets us exposure in generally public venues and sometimes a bit of radio and television coverage. It's a win/win situation for all.

Playing for charity is of course a different matter and we'd have to be less than human to see it otherwise. Although there are a lot of those out there who refuse to play for charity. Maybe they don't see it as free advertising the way we do as it gets us exposure in generally public venues and sometimes a bit of radio and television coverage. It's a win/win situation for all.

Yeah, I have to reiterate that playing for charitable causes is a great and honorable thing to do. I hope every performer can find x amount of time a year to do it. It's just that it has to be planned for, carefully selected and stuck to so that you don't suddenly find your calendar piled high with freebies and the light bill goes past due.

That said it all Irminsul, Have to be able to pay the bill's.