General Music Chat

The grunge era was great cuz you could go without a bath or not wash your hair for a week and come out looking trendy. Seriously though it doesn't matter if you're on stage or off...there's no excuse for dressing like a slob. Hey its your choice...if you WANT to dress like a slob that's your business...but don't be shocked when people say you look and smell like a used diaper full of indian food.

On the other hand you can go overboard. Overdressing for a show is just pretentious and nobody really cares how many rhinestones there are on your big glowing elvis jumpsuit.

For a good example look at a guy like David Gilmour of the Floyd. He'll play to a crowd of thousands and walk out on stage wearing a pair of clean jeans or slacks and maybe some kind of izod polo shirt or something...yaknow with the little aligator. Clean, professional, but not overdressed. People respect that type of self honesty.

I 'm wondering how important it is, since musicians are creative in nature, as to what you like to wear when you play out somewhere. Do you go for comfort or a look. This is not a FASHION question. Some people want an image and some people don't give a damn, they just want to be comfortable, and some may think it's unrelated. Some may even wonder what one has to do with the other. So, does it matter to you and if so, what's your favorite?

I don't like to wear button up shirts as I don't like to scatch up my guitars.

Cheers,
Matt

"Big time acts.........well, why didn't you say so to begin with? I've never been part of a 'big time act', so you have me at a disadvantage." -I think the orig q was 'to dress up or not'... just trying to put my finger on when I would see it as appropriate or not. that's all.

"You seem to have visions of 'costumes' going on." -I had visions of you dressed up like ziggi stardust playing sweet home alabama -cmon that's gotta make u laugh I don't care who you are!

"Obviously you can't play a biker bar in a suit. You can't play the tophat in shorts and a tanktop... " -again... when is it appropriate?

btw, forgot the greatest example of em all... my hero bruce springsteen! He has one costume, and he plays for the little guy... all music and no show.

"Thank God there's people like Mr.MikeV..." -flattery will get you everywhere! Don't get me wrong I think to some extent you may have to do it... I'm just saying it's not that important to me. If I am ever so lucky as to get a big gig I would let them dress me up, because I acknowlege it's importance(somewhat) for appeal to the audience... but it isn't important to me. I wouldn't want success based on ANYTHING other than my music.
As a cover band... it's important that you fit in... but don't do more than neccessary to accomplish that... or you will look like a poser.

bluesman-I think your right on. Look at gilmour.

Zito has come closer than most of us (to a 'big time' act) opening for eric johnson and I really respect his opinion... tell us A. how many ppul there were guitarists? B. what did you and/or eric wear?
I agree, don't wanna scratch that b u t ful carvin of yours... do you remember the first scratch in it? Gotta respect the soul of the insrument... altho I used to know a guy who was very good and only played old stuff... wouldn't play a gtr with new shiny pu covers, machines, etc. perhaps one of the best blues gtr players I've ever met too. He loved my ibanez lawsuit with the big shattered mark on the front!

"Are you implying that good appearance and good musicianship are mutually exclusive?" I'm not, and I don't think any one else is. -play nice now boys...
"A 'pure' artist.......how noble." -it is noble, I can't imagine how you wouldn't see that but I respect your right to dissagree.

'You wear your 'right to dress as I please' attitude like a badge of honor.' And if yer good enough to fill a bar with ppul who know enough about music not to care about your shirt you would wear that badge proudly too... but in all honesty I am not THAT good... and I don't want my 'costume' giving ppul the wrong impression b4 they git a chance to hear me, cause I feel my unique voice might be enough to make them like me despite my shortcomings. there isn't that a nice way of summing it up?

"I’m just a weekend warrior with the silly attitude of feeling somewhat obligated to those that hire us, to 'keep' customers in their establishments.Always thought that was why we were hired. " -how noble of you, but what is it that's keeping em there... your costume? really? you'll admit that? and it doesn't bother you?

"I suppose arrogance and art have always been closely related...........perhaps spawning the term ‘starving artist’. " -cmon now, don't take the gloves off yet... no one has said anything worth doing that over... but there you go.
for the record, let me get this straight... bar-owners hire you to dress up and not to play? doesn't it bother you that ppul may be comeing to see you dressed like a silly-billy and that you aren't getting payed to PLAY MUSIC? Don't you take your art more seiously than your work?

I hear ya on the 'it's tuff to make it ass a regular working musician' tho. One of the probs (from my perspective) 2day is the millions of dollars big record companies spill into moderately talented people, and their image. You could never compete with big act popularity because not even the big act itself can live up to it's own image, and in some cases it's own recordings. Why, you say? Cause big music biz is only interested in the fast sell and a sure thing and a easy buck. The kids will go for anything the company sells them if they think their friends will like it. Image is more important to them then the average middleaged person. It's truly a system of enforced 'dumming down' of mainstream music. I think I was a victim of it myself. Now, that big image with all the money spilled into the talent 'behind the scenes' making a mediocre artist 'bigger than life' makes it much harder for the ARTIST -who just want's to make good music, to actually make a living playing out in local bars... cause ppul are saving their money to go to ticketmaster and pay $50 to hear brittany spears lipsink to her own crappy album and dance around like an idiot. I think of a phish show as the ultimate 'flip side' to this kind of mindless lameness pushed upon the kids today.
So now you see my 'selfless' campaign theme(jokingly): to boldly try to put some truly artistic music into the world and be an example of an artist who won't sell out for a dollar. But I made the decision long ago that my art was the single most important thing to me. so i decided a career with it would simply squeeze the life out of it, and to fund my desire to simply make music for musics sake, I became a software developer. But let me state here that I don't believe that any local original of cover act can sustain itself well on the best of incomes generated by regular gigging. Not here in wi for sure, def not in LA where you have to front $500 to play at the coconut club! That's why they call them starving ARTISTS... cause they believe in their art enough to do something slightly more drastic than I and live the life of a true starving artist. I don't have the nerve for that kind of life and I have nothing but respect for ppul who do so please... offend me all you want, take all the shots you want... but leave them out of it. ahhh hell, I'm gonna go write a book. (sorry about my spelling I'm 2 tired to spell check my posts)
Correction: arrogance and GOOD ART have always been closely related... I'm just trying to get some practice in early.

True stuff Mike.

The arts should be better funded then they are i.e.; schools should have
music programs.

Look at rap. The reason the record companies started and still produce it is because it costs much less to get a few people to rhyme to a drum beat then it does to hire people that can actually play, sing and compose.

Appeal to the lowest common denominator and sell as much product as you can cause the bottom line is the only thing that matters to record companies. They have no conscience.

Greed Greed Greed

rap != music - imo

Cheers,
Matt

Flambouyant dress sure has its place in the performing arts, and there is no denying it.

* Franz Liszt was the first "Michael Jackson", wearing a green glove on one hand as he did his virtuotic, stunning live concerts - at one point pulling off the glove and throwing it to the women swooning in the front.

* No one can deny that Elton John's ascendance to success had a lot to do with his outrageous costumes and stage antics (which included setting his piano on fire)

* KISS....need I say more

* Early David Bowie - especially the Ziggy Stardust Era - had a major part in distinguishing him as an artist.

Does that mean that you need to dash off to the costume shop before your next gig? Not necessarily. It really depends on your nature and what you are trying to pull off live. But, I really think that attention to the performance aspect of the musicians world has suffered alot over the past decade or two.

But all those people suck Irm...

Cept liszt but he was only a medicore player in terms of the era in which he lived. He was a much better writer and transcriber than player. Even Leopold Aure said that.

I was only joking about those people sucking btw...They all represent fundamental and vital movements in the entertainment industry.

That being said...

Regardless of how good you are, if you want to decide how apropriate flamboyant stage costumes are then take the time to consider how much artist you are...and how much entertainer. There is a difference although the 2 can overlap. If you're a musician first and formost then never wear anything on stage you wouldn't wear into your local coffee shop. If you rely on an image to sell your product (entertainer more than artist) then by all means do the marilyn manson thing and shock rock the hell out of your fans.

Women go crazy for a sharp dressed man...I know that's true cuz zztop said it.

Zito i respect the hell outta ya cause I've hear ya play... need I say more... you know I will...
I blame the fact that I am not as jazz friendly as I should be based on the fact that in my high school the jazz instructor felt 'guitars have no place in jazz' and hence I was not allowed to play in band unless I learned another instrument... but then I did learn the bass and that was a positive thing. Perhaps my school should have spent more money on a band instructor... btw no joke his name was mr. bader.
Anywho, it breaks my heart to hear you not like rap zito, but I can understand it. I think part of what you say is true, and that's how rundmc and others got their start... but lyrically the rhym scheme tends to be superior to most other music, even if the lyrical content doesn't allways come from the same 'enlightened' place. I think there are good examples out there. mandm for instance. yeah, he's a jerk most of the time... but the guy can tell a good story via rap IMO. Sm with snoop dog. Rythmically they are good musicians. unfortunately you'd have to wade through a sea of other crap artists to find guys like snoop and mandm... or the beastie boys. I don't expect to convert you, and believe me I'm not a huge rap fan... but there is some good stuff out there.
That said, I think there is some truth in every thing you said.

Irminsul... funny, it seems you didn't read all my posts, based on yer comments, so it must be odd coincidence that I have mentioned just about everyone you mentioned there in a former post. Kiss, ziggystardus, someone else mentioned EJ. Have much respect for all these bands/performers... even with there costumes. I hear ya, it is important to many ppul... and you virtually have to follow suit in most cases-pardon the pun. I don't hold anything against any performer for playing that game... I just think it's gotten to the point where it is more important than the music with some performers... and ones who are quite mainstream... not mj, ej, zs, or kiss, but britany, the pu**y cat dolls, the spice girls, and a ton of others. And the technology has gotten to where any mediocre singer can be made to sound good in the studio, and couldn't live up to there own image in concert, but are there bcause they could sing mediocre and had 'the look'. In summary, I think the only point I am makeing is that it should never get to where it is more important than the music... and it clearly has.

I don't agree with the contention that these days it's all about the threads. In fact, since about the early 90s I've never seen such a sustained performance trend that says to dress down...even shitty. If you want the heavy glam era, look for the mid to late 70s up through the 80s.

If performance is an integral part of your music career, I think it's suicide not to put some thought into your wardrobe. It's just common sense. Some years ago I saw a band at the Utah Arts Festival that was musically just jaw dropping good. But there were all dressed in these dumpy beige docker shorts, dirty shirts and the typical backward ballcaps, and I noticed I was not the only one of the sparse crowd that saw that band not only didnt take themselves seriously - they clearly didn't respect themselves or what they did at all. Clearly a case of missing the "understated dress" and falling into the "we don't give a sh*t" pit.

I never thought it would be an issue with the men who have responded to this chat and I was actually hesitant to ask the question, "does what you wear matter?" I didn't want it to come across as a girly question. I never meant it that way and I'm happy to see such diverse opinions about all of this. I'm still taking in all this information. I think that some of us are saying the same thing but naturally, from his/her, own experiences. I was blest with a natural talent, fell in love with songwriting as a child, and sang as soon as I could talk. I learned over YEARS by watching other musicians both local and of fame. There's a LOT, I wish I had known when I was younger, mostly the business stuff. Now, I'm a better musician than I ever was, more confident and defined, yet always opened to possibilities, and willing to make changes. But one thing I see, and maybe it's my never give up your dream attitude, is that Who the hell needs the *!#! companies anymore? Whether you want to be a big act or just make a living playing local bars, and mind you, I'm a baby boomer , not well versed in computer life, yet to me, the possibilities are endless! Back in the 60's you had to find a connection , just be at the right place at the right time, blah, blah. Today, your connections are worldwide and at your fingertips. You can do what you want basically and not be at the mercy of people who think a tight a#*! has anything to do with writing good songs or performing. So, I love Prince and EVERYTHING about him. I also appreciate Bruce and Everything about him! Whether they wear rhinestones or a bandana, I love their being simply. I would hope, the same would be for me. Again, I think we are at an advantage now more than ever to have whatever image we want and to market ourselves! Screw the BIG COMPANIES. I will keep my soul and my own money! AND, I will be wearing what I want too! How do you like me now?

I agree with Irm that nomatter what you wear you should at least wear something clean.

Maybe we can base wardrobes on genres...

Country: Boots, Jeans, sleeveless t-shirt, and a big hat

Trash Metal: Black Jeans, Black T-shirt, Black wristbands

Alternative: Jeans, t-shirt, a button up shirt that's unbuttoned overtop of that. (strange hats like gatsby caps turned backwards are allowed...go for the coffee house look)

Blues: A cheap suit

Techno: the metrosexual look

Emo: a t-shirt with an obscure underground indie band underneath a zipper hood sweat shirt. Also accepted are pinstriped button shirts and big ugly eyeglasses from the 1950's (chuck taylor's finish off the ensemble of course)

Rap/hiphop: pants that are too big, a wife beater that's too small, lots of bling, and a jewel incrusted gold cup that you carry around for no aparent reason.

Numetal: Just like the rap/hiphop artists only with a guitar around your neck

And then you add the pink ballet tutu worn by En Esche, of hardcore German industrial band KMFDM - and all rules fall apart yet again.

I blame the fact that I am not as jazz friendly as I should be based on the fact that in my high school the jazz instructor felt 'guitars have no place in jazz' and hence I was not allowed to play in band unless I learned another instrument... but then I did learn the bass and that was a positive thing. Perhaps my school should have spent more money on a band instructor... btw no joke his name was mr. bader.

Mike,
I had a similar experience in school. In Junior High and High school I played trombone in band. Not that I wanted to but no guitar instruction was offered. And they didn't any guitar.

I see why they might not have wanted it. Maybe if they'd offered guitar know one would've studied the brass or wind instruments. Just a guess.

I started on piano when I was 6 and studied for a couple years. Then I played trumpet for a while. Then I took some drum lessons from my Uncle. I got my first guitar around 1971. Played around with it but I didn't have any instruction yet. Then trombone through school. Then during my junior year of High school I restrung my guitar and blew through some Mel Bay books so I could prove to my dad I was serious enough for him to get me a teacher.

To me jazz is just the most fun and challenging genre. You know when your playing to a jazz crowd the they're listening.

Did you know that Holdsworth never wanted to play guitar? He actually wanted to play sax but saxophones were to expensive so his dad got him a guitar. That's where his whole legato approach came from. He was trying to sound like a sax.

I do like to dress well when I play but I dress for the type of gig. I'd never wear dirty clothes.

Cheers,
Matt

Country: Boots, Jeans, sleeveless t-shirt, and a big hat
Trash Metal: Black Jeans, Black T-shirt, Black wristbands
Alternative: Jeans, t-shirt, a button up shirt that's unbuttoned overtop of that. (strange hats like gatsby caps turned backwards are allowed...go for the coffee house look)
Blues: A cheap suit
Techno: the metrosexual look
Emo: a t-shirt with an obscure underground indie band underneath a zipper hood sweat shirt. Also accepted are pinstriped button shirts and big ugly eyeglasses from the 1950's (chuck taylor's finish off the ensemble of course)
Rap/hiphop: pants that are too big, a wife beater that's too small, lots of bling, and a jewel incrusted gold cup that you carry around for no aparent reason.
Numetal: Just like the rap/hiphop artists only with a guitar around your neck

now that's what I'm talking about... put your finger right on it.
NO ONE IS SAYING DRESS DIRTY... ALTHO IT SEEMS TO WORK FOR KEITH RICHARDS...
"I don't agree with the contention that these days it's all about the threads." -cmon now. The scope of the statement I made was much more narrow than the above. Let me say it agian... loved elvis, elton john, mj, ziggy, HENDRICKS!, and freekin garry glitter, and all the hair metal bands, and disco, and everything under the sun. But I loved them for their music and nothing else about them was important to me. It's perfectly OK with me that you enjoyed their getup slightly less than their music... it's also quite reasonable to have a 'look' for you and your original material... but it should never be AS important as the music, and in a cover band... dressing up a little is ok. Whether your a cover act or original: dressing up like ziggy stardust suggests you really think something of yourself... and if you go out there with a 'jimmi hendricks' getup you had better bring it like jimmi hendricks cause if ya don't I'm gonna say you were to busy sewing up yer costume to woodshed on yer instrument... and that MAKES you a big poser. Now I don't know enough about other instruments to say who qualifies to dress like ziggi stardust and who doesn't, but I am damn sure qualified to say it about other guitar players. Very, very few of them, perhaps 100 in the world alive today... could dress like hendricks and have a room full of people take them seriously. Now if you dumbed it down from hendricks, less flamboyant based on the ratio of how much better hendricks was than you/I/them... that might be ok. It still won't be important to me unless the ratio is off, and your dressed like hendricks but laying down like kirk hammet (sorry kirk I love ya but your ok at best). So as you see, it is only 50% of the viewpoint to say that dressing up can help you, cause it can hurt you too.
So with that in mind, I won't dress like hendricks, I won't even dress like hammet, I'll dress like the 'slightly above average player' that I actually am (if I may say so myself).
I think you wearing a kilt is fine there irminsul... cause it sounds like it fits with your music... but if you came out dressed like liberachi(spelling)... and I was a pianist, I'd expect you to be just as good if not better than liberachi... are you? I am asking you to ask yourself... I really would hve no idea. But I'm guessing you know exactly how good you are. And I'm guessing you don't dress like liberachi.
Then again dressing isn't all we're talking about here... stage performance too. Steve vai dresses like a nut job and dances around like a fool... but he can do that while he plays and is good enough to pull it off... still chet atkins was good enough too... but would stand there like a pole and smile. Neither could have gotten away with what the other was doing so how do we put our finger on why one could do it and one couldn't? I guess the closest I can get is to say it has to fit your style. And I guess my style is to not give a crap about what I wear other than to make sure it's clean, and somewhat complies with my surroundings.

ZITO -can you think of any jazz musicians that dressed wild? I guess that lady singer was kinda out there... ella f, but she was just dressed classy for the most part. Perhaps jazz players have to dress in suits?

Hey MATTZITO, everytime I think of Willie Nelsons guitar, I smile and NOW, everytime I think of his guitar, I think of how you would probably have a nervous breakdown! And I still smile.LOL! I kinda like the vintage and old stuff with a little bit of wear on it! But guys, don't you think we are stereo-typing , country wears this and jazz wears that and if we are , then I'm just the person to do the opposite, the unexpected, that's what I think would be the thing to do, if you want to get some attention. I mean it is acceptable now for women to wear lingerie as outer wear and the trend is fun so do we have Madonna to thank for that cos she was doing it years ago and I think maybe she couldn't decide what to wear for a gig so she just decided to go on stage in her lingerie. I might criticize or like someones attire at the time but it would not change my mind about the music I went to hear.