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#142736 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:49 am
Mike9699 wrote:GlenJ, So what would you do with the people who can't control themselves? If more people controlled themselves we wouldn't have the problems we have now. It's because people can't control themselves that some feel the need to control while others want to excuse it by giving them a free pass with no control. It comes back around to holding people responsible for their actions. Why should I or anyone pay for those that refuse to control themselves. You can't have a world without constraint or control in some form where there is no morals no laws where people can do whatever they want.


AAAAHHH, so now you're starting to get it. It's a major conundrum that has been going on since Adam made a personal choice, and Eve being the perfect ,loving , mom, and procurer of supplies wanted to share. Personally I think Eve got the shaft in this story, but thats not the important stuff.

The important stuff is everyone has a choice, right up to the point that you let some one else decide. Now if you choose to let some one else make your decisions,,, Just leave me the frig out of it.

I read these posts and the biggest question that keeps coming up is do you want to be controlled by a corrupt corporation or a corrupt government.

Thomas Jefferson said it best,,, "When there is tyranny, the people fear the government,,, When there is freedom the government fears the people".

I don't know about every one else here, but I gave up my mommy 45 years ago,,, and I really don't need any other man doing something I wouldn't do. Sit in judgement and RULE my life. Till death do we part.



:!: :!:

#142738 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:54 am
Watch High Plains Drifter. Was Clint restoring order or destroying all that was wrong? :wink:

#142741 by philbymon
Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:18 am
sanshouheil wrote:Those are not conservatives Phil, those are thieves.

And there are plenty of them to go around on all points of the political spectrum.


Actually, sans, that is the result of the far right's "free market" at work. The left is calling for controls...as are centrists...but no one is listening to anything but the right at this point.

#142744 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:31 am
philbymon wrote:
sanshouheil wrote:Those are not conservatives Phil, those are thieves.

And there are plenty of them to go around on all points of the political spectrum.


Actually, sans, that is the result of the far right's "free market" at work. The left is calling for controls...as are centrists...but no one is listening to anything but the right at this point.


There we go again The left is calling for controls.

I DON'T NEED A GOVERNMENT LEFT OR RIGHT CONTROLLING ME.

LIVE FREE OR DIE! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

#142746 by philbymon
Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:36 am
Mike9699 wrote:You Liberals live in La-La Land. Your philosophy is that nobody should be accountable for their own actions. To lazy to work? no problem, the people that do work hard will be your drones and take care of your every need. Can't keep your legs shut or your pecker in your pocket? No problem, murdering and innocent life is now the new form of birth control so there is no need and the hard workers or drones will pay for that also. The guy that raped and murdered the two children next door? Well, he was abused as a child so it's really not his fault so instead of killing the dog lets take care of him. Oh, once again the hard working people or drones will pay for that once again. The list could go on and on. It's kind of funny that Obama came into office with these great liberal ideas but got a quick reality check. Did he bring the troops home as promised? No he sent more troops! Not only that but just started his own war with Libya. Did he shut down Guantanamo? No! He just signed a new order keeping it open indefinitely. Did he reform health care costs? No! It's now even more expensive and they are giving out waivers like candy. These dreams of some liberal utopia where everyone is taken care of is idiotic at best.


I reiterate your first response, Mike. You seem to take the position that to be a liberal is to be someone who condones lazy & irresponsible behavior. Frankly, the "modern liberal" is all about removing choices, rendering personal irresponsibility impossible. Look at the # of cops that BOTH sides of the aisle want ot there, for different reasons. The left wants them to babysit you, to make sure you're taking proper care of yourself, so as not to be a burden on the system - like with seat belt laws. They want to simply remove all your possible bad choices, as in CA, where they're removing kids' toys from Happy Meals at fast foos joints. The right wants more cops out there to make sure you cannot revolt, or to make sure that of you DO step out of line, you end up feeding the system one way or another.

Both the right AND the left are in la-la-land, Mike, & want to control you, either with cops & the economy, or with cops & laws.

I loathe the modern gov't. Dems & Reps alike represent everyone BUT the ppl. On the left you have ppl catering to Green technologies that aren't even working, yet still manage to fill the pockets of the undeserving folk who would foist these unsound & unhealthy products on us. On the right, you have the folk who would strip you of your job & blame you for not seeing it coming & preparing for it, while they raise costs to benefit no one but themselves & the ones who bought them.

The left whittles away at the Constitution to force ppl to live moral, or socially conscious lives, while the right just takes & takes & outright kills ppl for profit, while removing all economic opportunity that any American could once count on.

I know I hit the right harder than I do the left, but I'm seeing far more propaganda from them over the last 15 years than I have from the left. They also seem to be having more of an impact on us all, lately, through all their nefarious means, & they certainly have more spokesppl than the left does.

Imho, if you don't belong in that top 10% of income in this country, & you back the right, you are a complete & utter fool, because you are most definitely working against your own best interest. Still, if you think the left has any relief for you, you're just as big a fool as the guy who'd sell himself down the river for opportunities that are being denied him.

#142751 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:13 am
Geeze Do I hear shades of an echo? :wink:

Don't worry folks, Phil and I are just working the crowd before we pass the hat.

We are actually best friends, I'm just pissed cause he won't move to LI to start a band. :lol:

#142752 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:13 am
Geeze Do I hear shades of an echo? :wink:

Don't worry folks, Phil and I are just working the crowd before we pass the hat.

We are actually best friends, I'm just pissed cause he won't move to LI to start a band. :lol:

#142753 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:14 am
Geeze Do I hear shades of an echo? :wink:

Don't worry folks, Phil and I are just working the crowd before we pass the hat.

We are actually best friends, I'm just pissed cause he won't move to LI to start a band. :lol:

#142755 by Mike9699
Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:57 am
Sorry Philby my old friend but I haven't met any of these new modern Liberals. I wonder how they would answer these few questions? They all have to do with accountability.

Do you believe in abortion other than for rape, incest or to save the mothers life?

Do you believe in the death penalty for those who rape and murder children or any murder of the innocent?

Do you support the welfare system for anything other than temporary help?

Do you believe we should support anyone in this country financially that entered illegally?

Do you believe the rich, or the people that worked hard to achieve financial success should pay for those that were to lazy to do the same?

Do you believe law abiding private citizens have the right to own guns other than military type assault weapons?

Do you believe people are entitled to free health care or affordable health care?

Do you believe the taxpayers should bailout anyone because of bad business practices?

#142756 by Chaeya
Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:36 am
Mike9699 wrote:See, there you go again. It doesn't have anything to do with me being a chauvinist. It's just that you aren't very good at arguing so he must let you win all the time. You and Philby couldn't dispute anything I said in my original post. You did focus on the La-La Land comment but were unable to tell me how you would achieve this Utopia except by saying you would inspire people to work which almost resulted in my soft drink exploding out through my nostrils from the laughter. I really don't see any argument here.


I did explain how the inspiration works; however, you're looking at it from taking a common man at their current rate of consciousness and sticking them in an enlightened way of life which would fail horribly. A paradigm shift is something that happens over time and it starts with already high conscious individuals, such as I explained in my second response to you. For instance, with so many people being out of work, losing their homes, you have groups of families who, instead of allowing themselves to consign themselves to the streets, decide to create co-ops where they all go in together and rent a large property, they pool their money on food, share equal work of upkeep, they pool a certain percentage of their wages to live together; therfore, having more money for themselves in savings, but they operate as one family. The current America thought is, "I like my privacy, I couldn't do that." However, there have been many people doing this in Hawaii for a long time, since it's so expensive to live there. Rich people have bought expensive properties and rented out the rooms for cheaper rent, allowing the inhabitants there to work the land and take care of the property for them. Being high conscious and spiritual individuals, they're not trying to sucker their way and take advantage because they understand the laws of the Universe will take care of them by way of good karma.

That's the inspiration, Mike. I don't need a religion or a church to teach me that there are planetary laws in effect!

So people start to do this and it catches on with others and slowly others start to do it. That's how paradigms shift. Look, for instance, at our generation where we got spanked in school, our parents thought nothing of swatting us out in public, even in television shows and it was laughed at. But then along comes the 80s and all of a sudden you get all these parents going "I don't believe in hitting my kids." Then those parents who smacked their kids out in public got the police called on them. Who would have thought in the 70s that would have ever happened not 10 years later?

So of course to the common man, who only thinks about politics and people sucking up money on welfare and how he doesn't want to be responsible for anyone but himself, look at my utopia and think it's a big joke. He doesn't know how to share and when anyone mentions sharing, the first thought he has is all the deadbeats taking advantage. That just shows where his line of thinking is. These are the people who wind up stuck and forgotten in nursing homes and whose kids no longer want to be bothered with him, because that's exactly what he's taught them to do, only care about themselves.

My ex-husband taught me a very valuable lesson. He owns a 6-unit apartment building in Australia. He busted his ass to keep it up with fresh paint, the repairs and maintenance upkept and even the grounds taken care of. He said, when you take care of your property, other people will be inspired to take care of it. Not once has he ever had any problem with any of his tenants. No one has damaged it, all the tenants took care of their units, and he never had any problems renting it out. In 1991, this building which everyone told his mother she should never waste her $18,000 AU on became worth over $1,000,000 AU. He believed that he was honoring his mother by keeping it looking nice.

And all America can think about are the welfare recipients and the illegal aliens. They are too stupid to think that if we were ever invaded that these welfare recipients and these illegal aliens will fight side by side with them to protect this place. That many of these welfare recipients and these illegal aliens make up a good portion of our current military. If I remember history well, we did the same thing with the Germans and the French in the Revolutionary War and the Irish in the Civil War and the Mexican Wars.

So really, it gets old hearing the lack of accountability spiel. You inspire people by giving them respect, you inspire people by giving them something and not give them a reason to take advantage.

I take care of a lot of people and in turn those people I've given to have come back to give back to me in ways you could never imagine. I know slackers when I see them, but I also know a lot of good people who are in pain and having a rough time, these are the people I concentrate on.

I'm freed up at the moment from what I was doing, so we can keep going back and forth with this. I argue quite well, just not when I'm distracted and my old man wants me to do stuff on the Internet for him. Well, I'm done now.

Chaeya

#142757 by Mike Nobody
Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:36 am
Do you believe in abortion other than for rape, incest or to save the mothers life?

Yes. Because it's none of your business.

Do you believe in the death penalty for those who rape and murder children or any murder of the innocent?

I'm against the death penalty, mainly because our legal system is hopelessly flawed and innocent people are often set free after serving time for crimes they didn't commit. If a judge gives you a "life sentence" it should mean just that, until you drop dead from natural causes. Criminals actual fear this more than capital punishment and have said so.

Do you support the welfare system for anything other than temporary help?

How temporary? I understand expecting people, who accept help for awhile if they need it, to be looking for self-support. But, in the real world, it has gotten harder and harder to support oneself on the wages available for many workers.

Do you believe we should support anyone in this country financially that entered illegally?

What kind of support? I, generally, think our immigration policy has gone ca-ca. Whatever happened to

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Do you believe the rich, or the people that worked hard to achieve financial success should pay for those that were to lazy to do the same?

Your question makes too many assumptions to be answered intelligently.

Do you believe law abiding private citizens have the right to own guns other than military type assault weapons?

Yup. I'd even say military assault type weapons should be available to militias, as the founders said.

Do you believe people are entitled to free health care or affordable health care?

Free! For "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" to mean anything you have to be alive. Besides, it would take the middlemen out of the picture. The right-wingers went on about "Death Panels" awhile ago. We already have them, INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Do you believe the taxpayers should bailout anyone because of bad business practices?

Generally speaking, no. But, corporations have grown so big, powerful, and important for everyday life to function that certain industries have been allowed to become "too big to fail." That shouldn't have been permitted to happen in the first place.

Most reasonable people are neither "left" or "right", but have opinions that cover a broad area. "Centrist" doesn't mean much anymore since politics has shifted so far to the right. Old guard conservatives like Richard Nixon and Barry Goldwater were too "liberal" for current conservatives, who border on neo-fascist. Obama's campaign rhetoric about Americans having more in common than not holds pretty true, actually. There's more "purple" than "red" or "blue" states.

#142760 by Chaeya
Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:08 am
Oooh, a survey:

Do you believe in abortion other than for rape, incest or to save the mothers life?

I don't believe welfare should pay for it, but I believe it is the mother's choice and the father's choice as well. It's between them.

Do you believe in the death penalty for those who rape and murder children or any murder of the innocent?

If it's beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty, you should be taken out immediately and done away with. I don't believe in death penalty people hanging out for years in prison. You did it, you die, simple as that.

Do you support the welfare system for anything other than temporary help?

It should be a few years.

Do you believe we should support anyone in this country financially that entered illegally?

If they're working, they should get the same temporary benefits that other low income families do. I see these people and they work their asses off, they're not over here slacking off.

Do you believe the rich, or the people that worked hard to achieve financial success should pay for those that were to lazy to do the same?

This is so lame. I don't feel I was too lazy to go to Harvard or Yale, I couldn't afford to. My parents couldn't afford to send me to college. For instance, do you know you can go to college all you want but unless you went to any of the high ranking colleges, there's no way in hell you could ever work at my law firm. The top law firms in this country recruit, you don't put in your application and get picked. And I know black people and other minorities who went to the good universities, but you don't see any of them in Irvine or Newport Beach law firms. White and Asian, that's it. I've worked there for over 15 years and if I saw a black lawyer down there I'd faint. You'll find a few in LA, but it's still mostly White. It's still very much the good old boy network. I've worked my ass off and still am, so if I need a leg up, that would be nice.

Do you believe law abiding private citizens have the right to own guns other than military type assault weapons?

So own a gun, why the f**k do people make such a big fuss about it. If you want to smoke a joint, you'll get marijuana, so if you want a gun, I'm sure you'll get one of those too. I wouldn't want people to know I have one, let them come and find out.

Do you believe people are entitled to free health care or affordable health care?

It's not free. Even in Europe it comes out of your taxes and you pay a premium. People should not be worried about not being covered if they get life-threatnening illnesses. People should not be able to go to the doctor because they're in between jobs or working a part time job. People should not lose their homes because they get cancer and can no longer work then lose their benefits from their jobs. People should not have to deny getting their kids hearing aids because it isn't considered a "need." I work, I pay money out of every check for health insurance, but hearing aids aren't covered. I don't have $2,000 to get them and they won't take payments.

Have we gone mad here? That many working individuals have to suffer this because all a bunch of stingy Americans can think about are welfare recipients. Give me a break. You'd think 75% of the nation is on welfare and it's not like that.

Let me explain something about welfare because right now I help out a young single father who's on assistance. He HAS to go to school and when he isn't in school, he HAS to work and go where they tell him to go. He gets subsidized apartment and a little allowance and health care. Whatever you think welfare is, it isn't the breeze it was in the 70s. They monitor every aspect of your life, they know what's in your bank accounts, you can only make a set amount of money or they cut you off. So nobody is getting a free ride here anymore. Even if people try to get over by selling their food stamps, they aren't making that much. It's no heaven. What's funny, I know more musicians who collect welfare so "they can do their art." But everybody just bitches about minorities and illegals. Funny.

When I was on disability, I went to see about getting on Medicaid for my kids. Even on disability I made too much money. I would have had to sell my truck and keep just one vehicle, they would have had to have access to both my bank account and savings account, and I would have to provide them with a monthly accounting. I said screw it and just didn't get on it.

Do you believe the taxpayers should bailout anyone because of bad business practices?[/quote]

Oh you mean, what we just did? How is this a liberal belief? Nobody wanted these businesses to get any money, least of all me.

So hopefully, this should clear up all the misconceptions and skewed beliefs about liberals. Wait, I'm not really liberal, just kind of.

Chaeya

#142763 by Mike9699
Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:41 am
Interesting answers Chaeya. There were some answers we might differ a little on but overall we are probably more alike than you think. So thanks! Mike Nobody, I don't give a Fu$k about your silly a$$ opinions.

#142772 by philbymon
Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:12 pm
Mike9699 wrote:Sorry Philby my old friend but I haven't met any of these new modern Liberals. I wonder how they would answer these few questions? They all have to do with accountability.

Do you believe in abortion other than for rape, incest or to save the mothers life?


I'll answer these for myself, not on behalf of "liberals" everywhere. On this one - as a conservative - I believe in the right of the individual to make choices for one's own body & family. I don't believe the gov't has any right to stop their choices before a fetrus is born, but I also don't believe that they should pay for abortions, unless there is rape or incest or severe health issues involved.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe in the death penalty for those who rape and murder children or any murder of the innocent?


Yes. Only in cases where the evidence is 100% irrefutable. That's becoming easier these days, with DNA evidence & such. Too many mistakes have been made in the past, & let's face it - our legal system isn't about justice. It's about numbers. How many ppl has the DA punished? How many ppl has a criminal defense lawyer gotten off? That's bullshit.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you support the welfare system for anything other than temporary help?


I knew a guy that was a bleeder. He could not work. It killed him at a young age. He was on SSI. He SHOULD have been in the welfare system for life, imho. His situation was incurable, but he had not paid into the SSI system. Imho, the welfare system can only work if it helps ppl who cannot help themselves, for whatever reason, for as long as they actually need help. There ARE gonna be abuses in any system, but blanket statements & zero tolerance won't work anymore than an open system that gives without asking why. The welfare dept needs to take things on a case by case basis, not hard & fast rules in stone.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe we should support anyone in this country financially that entered illegally?


No.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe the rich, or the people that worked hard to achieve financial success should pay for those that were to lazy to do the same?


I think the rich have an obligation to pay back into the system that made it possible for the opportunities that they took advantage of to become rich. This is the way things worked so well for everyone, rich AND poor, in the 50 through the 70's.

Today's rich are investing overseas. I think they should be taxed heavily for this, since they made their fortunes HERE, for the most part, thanks to our gov't's previous controls on the market sytem made it possible for them to become rich. Now those controls are being bypassed by those who made it big, & they are in the process of preventing others from succeeding as they did. That is bad for everyone but those who've already made it.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe law abiding private citizens have the right to own guns other than military type assault weapons?


Yes.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe people are entitled to free health care or affordable health care?


Yes. That is the way any humane system works, from the simplest aboriginal culture to the most complex industrialized nations on the planet.

Mike9699 wrote:Do you believe the taxpayers should bailout anyone because of bad business practices?


No. I consider this last one a trick question, because it's typically been the RIGHT that has given those bailouts.

#142774 by philbymon
Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:35 pm
Okay, I've answered your questions. I have a few of my own.

Should there be accountability for a president that brings us to war, when his reasons for doing so don't add up?

Should we pay MORE for private contractors in a war-time situation than we would for our own armed forces personnel?

Should corporations be allowed to donate to the campaigns of our gov't officials?

Should any news program be allowed to lie & call it "news?"

Should a co that has been bailed out by the American taxpayers be allowed to invest & to grow by expanding its manufacturing overseas, while cutting American jobs?

Should a company be allowed to sell potentially dangerous products to our ppl without being heavily fined &/or paying damages to those it hurt, when those products prove to be harmful or even fatal?

Should a company that has a virtual monopoly in any given area be allowed to charge whatever it pleases for a service or a product, no matter how necessary that service or product may be for the good of the ppl, or should there be a cap placed on what they can charge?

Should a co be given the same rights as a person?

Should a co's personnel be held criminally accountable when they perform criminal acts against the citizens of the USA?

The answers to these questions seem quite obvious to me, yet our leaders continually allow these & other actions to continue, to the detriment of our ppl.

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