General Music Chat

I must be crazy (nothing new there eh)

I have heard the voice of God speaking directly to me.

Granted, was not an audible voice like my earthly father would use to address me.

But I know whom it was and what he told me just the same.
The spirit (whom is God) speaks to me as well ............ and often.
It is the only thing that keeps me sane and on the right course.

All the info available to us is from reading.

If that were true, then illiterate people who cannot read, could never know God and come to salvation. There are people's in the Amazon who still, only recently, are being discovered and having their first contact with the modern world... including PRINTED MATERIALS.

Do you really believe that God is the kind of Father, who condemns people allegedly born into a sin-nature, to an eternity in hell, merely because they are illiterate? And merely because no missionaries (let alone anthropologists) have had the chance to go and witness to them?

If their salvation was dependent on a MISSIONARY bringing PRINTED MATERIALS to them, or at least reading them to these people (once they learned the language, that is) and that was their only hope for salvation, do you have any idea how many countless primitive people would be going to hell, just because they had to wait for someone to show up in the jungle?

Do you really, truly, believe that God condemns these people to hell, because they can't read, or no one has yet come to read to them? Where is the love in that? Where is the justice in that?

Paul was saved without any missionary or any other human being witnessing to Him. If we have a record that God saved someone like that, who are YOU to tell God that He couldn't do the same for poor illiterate natives in the jungles in South America? These are people who REALLY need that kind of opportunity. Did God waste that only on Paul? Paul was exceedingly literate, intelligent and well informed.

Is God biased toward the literate of the world?

Some god there.

I NEVER avoid tough ones. You don't have any.

There are MANY questions I have posed which you have avoided answering. You still haven't answered even the question I posed AGAIN, in this very thread, which was "Would you be satisfied having a relationship with your wife and children through a book, rather than a personal relationship with them DIRECTLY, in person."

Here's another I asked...

"Do you really believe that God had to put a Rainbow in the sky so that he would REMEMBER His promise not to flood the Earth again?"

Cause the Bible states quite succinctly, that He would REMEMBER His promise not to flood us again, WHEN HE SAW HIS BOW SET IN THE SKY. Which is kind of funny, considering that rainbows come AFTER it rains or storms and generally not before. That would be kind of late, for a God needing a visual aid to REMEMBER His promise, wouldn't it? He could end up flooding us to death, and then see His rainbow in the sky, and REMEMBER too late then huh?

"Oh crap... all the people are dead, and I was supposed to remember something... what was it? It was... oh crap!!!! There's that rainbow! Damn!!! Oh yeah, that's it!!! I wasn't supposed to flood them again was I?"


Which brings up a very interesting paradox...


Genesis 9:13-16

13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."


Read the verses above carefully!

God allegedly says...

"I will set my rainbow in the clouds"

With me so far?

And then...

"I will see it, and REMEMBER my covenant"

Now wait a minute...

God Himself put the rainbow in the sky, and yet until he SEES the Rainbow, he won't remember not to kill us all with floods again? He remembers to put a rainbow in the sky every day, but forgets about His promise not to flood us, until He sees the Rainbow that HE HIMSELF put up there in the sky?

Seriously?

You buy into that convoluted thought process?

If I am wrong. Show me how.

How can God forget ANYTHING?
How can God need to REMEMBER anything?
How can God possibly need a VISUAL AID to remember His own promise?

The status quo lines you parrot, may work for some who don't really look deeply into these things, but with someone like me?

You are in deep water.

Rainbow or not!

God does not speak to us directly. If you say he does to you you are lying or crazy.

Of course God speaks to us.

You believe that God spoke audibly and in dreams and revelations and visions, all the way up until Jesus crucifixion, I presume? And the disciples were spoken to by God, even AFTER Jesus' death, but once the Apostles had died, then God clammed up?

God was like...

"Ok, the last Apostle is dead finally... now I don't have to talk to these people anymore!"

Is that it?

"So when people are praying to God, begging for answers and direction, God responds... "I'm not talking any longer... I wrote a book... Go read that and stop talking to me!"

Which of course begs another question...

"We can talk to God all we want, He just won't talk back?"

"Buy the book you annoying children of mine... It's an Amazon best seller! I know I've called you my children, but I don't like talking to my children any longer since the last Apostle died... so... Go read my book!

"But I've read it 20 times straight through already Lord!"

"Read it again motormouth! No more talking... just reading now!"

Wow. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Show me one verse which CLEARLY claims that God can no longer speak to us.



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I must be crazy (nothing new there eh)

I have heard the voice of God speaking directly to me.

Granted, was not an audible voice like my earthly father would use to address me.

But I know whom it was and what he told me just the same.
The spirit (whom is God) speaks to me as well ............ and often.
It is the only thing that keeps me sane and on the right course.

Awesome George!

I had to quote your whole statement. I am VERY pleased that you have that kind of relationship with your Father in heaven! VERY pleased indeed!

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[quote="Etu ]

I don't believe Christ was born in October or December as the Gospels describe flocks of sheep and that would denote more around Spring/Fall.

But of course December 25 was the chosen day just like all the other Dying/Resurrecting god/men's birth dates.[/quote]


I don't want to write too much...I lost 2 posts here. But there are other considerations that support the concept of Jesus' birth being in within the months of Sept or Oct. I found this link. Shepherds were indeed outside with their flocks up to the end of November. But, there are also some other things to consider.

http://amprpress.com/christ's_birth.htm

True, it doesn't matter when Jesus' birth took place. What matters is what we do to serve HIM and how we value what he has done and continues to do for us. Serving HIM also means serving others.

All the info available to us is from reading.

If that were true, then illiterate people who cannot read, could never know God and come to salvation. There are people's in the Amazon who still, only recently, are being discovered and having their first contact with the modern world... including PRINTED MATERIALS.

That's why we have the great commission. We read it and teach those who cant read.

That was petty and quarrelsome. You know the answer. You know I know it. I'm so sorry that I said "reading the bible is the only way we get info" instead of saying "the bible is the only way we get info"

Do you really believe that God is the kind of Father, who condemns people allegedly born into a sin-nature, to an eternity in hell, merely because they are illiterate? And merely because no missionaries (let alone anthropologists) have had the chance to go and witness to them?

If their salvation was dependent on a MISSIONARY bringing PRINTED MATERIALS to them, or at least reading them to these people (once they learned the language, that is) and that was their only hope for salvation, do you have any idea how many countless primitive people would be going to hell, just because they had to wait for someone to show up in the jungle?

Do you really, truly, believe that God condemns these people to hell, because they can't read, or no one has yet come to read to them? Where is the love in that? Where is the justice in that?

As usual I believe what the bible says on that.
That God is the Judge. That no man comes to the father but by Jesus. That we must be baptized to receive remission of sins.

Paul was saved without any missionary or any other human being witnessing to Him.

By God in person who no longer does that.

I NEVER avoid tough ones. You don't have any.

There are MANY questions I have posed which you have avoided answering. You still haven't answered even the question I posed AGAIN, in this very thread, which was "Would you be satisfied having a relationship with your wife and children through a book, rather than a personal relationship with them DIRECTLY, in person."

Seriously? You seriously don't consider that rhetorical?

Here's another I asked...

"Do you really believe that God had to put a Rainbow in the sky so that he would REMEMBER His promise not to flood the Earth again?"

Cause the Bible states quite succinctly, that He would REMEMBER His promise not to flood us again, WHEN HE SAW HIS BOW SET IN THE SKY. Which is kind of funny, considering that rainbows come AFTER it rains or storms and generally not before. That would be kind of late, for a God needing a visual aid to REMEMBER His promise, wouldn't it? He could end up flooding us to death, and then see His rainbow in the sky, and REMEMBER too late then huh?

"Oh crap... all the people are dead, and I was supposed to remember something... what was it? It was... oh crap!!!! There's that rainbow! Damn!!! Oh yeah, that's it!!! I wasn't supposed to flood them again was I?"

That doesn't merit a response but here you go anyway. This is just my thoughts on it. It was language and concept humans could relate to. Or, What if he set up the rainbow to automatically appear (he did) and then it reminded him until the next time it rained. That could be resolved in more than those 2 ways but there you go anyway. Your question is argumentative and petty ( standard Craig m.o.) and I didn't bite until you pushed it.

How can God forget ANYTHING?

heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

The status quo lines you parrot, may work for some who don't really look deeply into these things, but with someone like me?

How nice. Calling God's word Status quo. That's all I do. You ask me me how can I think this way on a subject. I quote the related scripture. Showing obviously it's not my opinion. You however rattle off from first opinions Chapter Craig verse mumbo jumbo.

You are in deep water.

Ooh I tremble at your authority and wisdom....
ego much?

God does not speak to us directly. If you say he does to you you are lying or crazy.

Of course God speaks to us.

You believe that God spoke audibly and in dreams and revelations and visions, all the way up until Jesus crucifixion, I presume? And the disciples were spoken to by God, even AFTER Jesus' death, but once the Apostles had died, then God clammed up?

God was like...

"Ok, the last Apostle is dead finally... now I don't have to talk to these people anymore!"

Is that it?

"So when people are praying to God, begging for answers and direction, God responds... "I'm not talking any longer... I wrote a book... Go read that and stop talking to me!"

Of course he answers. He answers with his blessings. Jobs, improved health, children, safe travel, our trained conscience encouraging us to do the right things, etc etc etc etc. Sometimes his answers are not right now, or no.

Show me one verse which CLEARLY claims that God can no longer speak to us.
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No problem. Miracles have ceased. The last people who could perform miracles were the ones the apostles laid hands on. After the last one died there were no more miracles.

I cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Looks like the highlighted portion applies to you huh?

The perfect new law came. We have what we need to know. It is perfect. A lifetime of study from it yields continual growth.

God speaks to us through his word and through our trained conscience. Our conscience can be trained through study and influence of faithful Christians.

1 Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

http://amprpress.com/christ's_birth.htm

True, it doesn't matter when Jesus' birth took place. What matters is what we do to serve HIM and how we value what he has done and continues to do for us. Serving HIM also means serving others.

http://amprpress.com/christ%27s_birth.htm

That's a pretty informative link there Mary.

True, it doesn't matter when Jesus' birth took place. What matters is what we do to serve HIM and how we value what he has done and continues to do for us. Serving HIM also means serving others.

AMEN TO THAT SISTER!!!!


Technically, both Easter and Christmas have pagan origins. But that is not quite a fair assessment. It's more like we hijacked the pagan celebrations, and molded them into Christian celebrations.

I can appreciate Paul's stand on this, and have no problem with Christians that choose NOT to celebrate these occassions.

But personally, I have no problem with it.

Decades ago, when I realized about the pagan origins of Christmas, it made me stop and reflect too, but I decided right then and there, that it can't be such a bad thing, that a "now" Christian holiday has taken hold worldwide, where everyone gives gifts to one another and practices a little more generosity, a little more kindness, a little less selfishness... even if it is on only one special day per year. When much of the world, Christian or not, celebrates GIVING and practices generosity and feels a little more close... Maybe we could use MORE days like that, rather than fewer?


The Christian leaders came more from this perspective...


"You know what? Thes pagans have their big festivals at this time of year that all the people look forward to, but they are worshipping nature and fertility... We worship the Son of the living God, our Savior, our Brother, our Creator who loved us so much, that He saw fit to assume a fleshly existence, as His children have, and dwell among us, to save us, to love us, as one of us... Doesn't He deserve for us to have festivals and celebrations to honor Him as well? And then also, these new converts will not be tempted to return to paganism, or mix paganism with The Way, simply because they enjoy a celebration. The pagans like gathering together and celebrating, well we have something worth gathering together and celebrating as well... but our celebrations will not worldly or centered on the flesh... we can celebrate in a way, appropriate to goodness and pleasing to the Father."


I suspect they probably thought along those lines.

I think it is not wrong, nor is it offensive to God, but pleasing, to see the world in a mood of giving and love, during this season.

It may be the ONE TIME per year, for some people, that they slow down and think of others for a change. Perhaps that one day, is often the small window God is looking for, to reach that person's heart in a more permanent way?

True, I don't like the commercialism of Christmas, it can be a financial burden... It's kind of ridiculous to me now, to spend that much work putting up decorations and such, that will only come down in a few weeks anyway, but...

Even with all that scrooge-like thinking of mine, I recognize the value of a day, where much of the world is united in the spirit of giving, love and sharing.

The goodness of Christmas, to me, far outweighs any potential harms.

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Wise men said, christmas is over, time to get drunk and party.

That's why we have the great commission. We read it and teach those who cant read.

That's just swell bro. But it has been over 2000 years since Jesus' death on the cross, and since the Great Commission was commanded by Jesus... Over 2000 years, and somehow, with a third of the world professing themselves to be Christian, STILL... we have not reached all the world with the liberating truth found in the Bible? Still we have not translated the Bible into every language? Do you have ANY IDEA PAUL... ANY IDEA AT ALL... how many souls are allegedly burning in hell for eternity over a 2000 year period, because God is waiting for lazy, air-condition loving Christians to teach people to read, so they can share the Gospel with them?

Or this a plot of God's?

Maybe He is just stoking his "furnace of souls" to enjoy a little more heat, over this 2000 years?

Honestly, anyone who believes God has such disregard for his CHIDREN'S lives and welfare, is hardly fit to be called Christian. And I am quite serious about that.

DO NOT.... DO NOT... Call God, a God of love, when you simultaneously believe He is so cruel and callous, as to BURN poor illiterate natives for ETERNITY, burn them WITHOUT killing them, just to make them FEEL PAIN.

That is something SATAN would enjoy perhaps.

But that is FOREIGN to God's loving heart.

It is no wonder you like to READ about God from a distance, as opposed to getting to know Him and His undying and perfect love, personally.

I'm so sorry that I said "reading the bible is the only way we get info" instead of saying "the bible is the only way we get info"

Don't be sorry.

That's semantics anyway... the result is the same, which is why I had added the caveat... "or read to them".

I had already anticipated your broadening the answer in response, so I tried to save the unecessary go-round on technicalities. Which is why I included... "Who can't read, or have no one to read to them" That's also why I mentioned in parenthesis about "Learning the language", cause the missionary has to learn the native language, which is only additional delays in reaching them with information from a book... When God is quite capable of revealing His truths DIRECTLY to our own hearts, and in myriad other ways.

Eureka!!! .... What you don't understand is that the Protestant Reformation, for all the good it may have accomplished... also accomplished something else, something terrible, though indirect...

WORSHIPPING THE BIBLE


Remember we spoke on this before?

Well... Sitting here typing, it just hit me how this happened.

It was the Protestant Reformation.

The evil of priests with ABSOLUTE power, selling papal indulgences, among so many other wrongs, was so successful in part, because the Priests purposefully only held services in Latin. You had to be an educated person to read the Bible for yourself.

Luther, for all his evils, accomplished a GREAT GOOD, in helping spark the liberation of the Bible from the language of the elite, and returning it to the languages of the common man... the way scripture was ORIGINALLY written, after all.

When people read for themselves, the words of the Bible, they could see clearly then, how the Priests had manipulated many texts to serve themselves, and justify their evils, and they could also read for themselves, that things the Priests said WERE in the Bible, were not in there at all.

But as an unanticipated side effect...

The Bible is liberated, and so the people are liberated with it, to study for themselves, which leads to the ideas... "Oh, I ain't falling for that again Priest... or Pastor... no sir... YOU SHOW ME where it says that, in the Bible buddy! Cause you enjoyed your season of having absolute authority over the people as Priests... But now, we see that these words, these rules for living, APPLY TO YOU AS WELL!!!! It is not that WE are subject to the Priests... it is that WE ALL are subject to the words and commands of God, as revealed through God's word.

"So say whatever you want, priests and pastors, but you better be able to SHOW ME... IN HERE... in God's word, the Bible!!!"

This elevated the Bible to a very high status, where it (a book) has authority, over ALL MEN... even Priests! No one can lie to me now, cause I CAN READ it for myself right here!

This is not bad really.

But the unitended consequence, is that many Christians now worship the Bible, even more than they worship God, the inspiration behind the Bible.

This is shown in many of the names of churches these days...

Bible Baptist
Open Bible Church
Bible Way Church

And on and on.


You know how some non-Christian religions worship nature? It's easy as a Christian to judge that. But have you stepped outside of that mindset for a moment, and just wondered... Why do they worship nature? I have done that, and immediately realized... "Well of course they worship nature... Look at it!" Even Paul makes note that all people know instinctively that there is a God, simply be looking at nature. As the Bible states... "The unseen nature of God, is evident in the things He has created."

Well, if someone does not KNOW the Creator, well, why wouldn't they worship nature as the next alternative? If as Paul states, we can know the unseen nature of God, merely by observing the things He has created... how powerful is that? The natural world is the visible evidence of the unseen nature of God. Yes, they are making a mistake in worshipping nature, because they are worshipping the things God has created, rather than He who created them.

But if they don't have God Himself, it's understandable isn't it?

Nature is amazing.

Well...

The Bible is amazing too.

It is the most important, most influential, most powerful book ever created... of course it is... God inspired it's words and teachings.

But like the mistake of pantheists in nature worship, many Christians today (especially Protestants) make the same mistake, and worship the Bible (a TOOL God inspired for man's benefit) rather than, or more than, the Creator of that tool... God our Father.

Christians act as if the Bible... "IS" God.

Much of this confusion comes from Jesus being called the "Word of God" because the Bible describes all creation, as being SPOKEN into existence by Jesus, who was called the LIVING WORD of God. This is because the Jews had prophets who brought the words of God to the people, but Jesus, as the Son of God, was not BRINGING us words from a God who existed somewhere else... no... Jesus was in the flesh, right in front of the people, speaking the WORDS and TRUTHS of God, daily, from His own mouth... On His OWN authority, unlike the prophets before Him, who were only CARRYING a message from someone else.

Jesus was like... the word made flesh.

It was like having the word of God, LIVING AS A PERSON, before them.

Jesus was the embodiment of God's words, because HE IS GOD.

The Bible however, is NOT the "living" word of God.

It is a physical object, a TEXTBOOK and HISTORY BOOK, that teaches about truth and contains messages and instructions from God to us. But is NOT God Himself.

To compare a "Bible" with Jesus Christ, God in flesh.

Not comparable.

The Bible is NOT God's word itself... it is a written RECORD of things God inspired.

Can the King James Bible raise the dead? Create the cosmos? Save souls?

Careful on that last one.

No, the King James Bible, or any other translation, has NO POWER WHATSOEVER! Not even to save souls!

The proof of this, is that if I put the King James Bible on a table, and leave it there. Guess what? It will stay there, unmoved. It can't even move itself, let alone save a soul or create a world. Why? Cause it is an inanimate object, that will perish and rot. It is a book after all.

The power of the Bible is it's teachings.

But those teachings are useless without PEOPLE employing them.

The Bible is a TOOL... nothing less... nothing more.

Tools, are made to SERVE MAN, not the other way around. God gave us the Bible to SERVE US... not that WE SHOULD SERVE THE BIBLE! As I have stated before, Christians today, make the SAME MISTAKE that Jews did in Jesus' day. God had given the LAW (part of God's word remember?) to the Jews as a TOOL, but they came to love the law, more than the lawgiver. They came to love the TOOL, more than the TOOL-MAKER... to the point, that when God in the flesh was standing before them.... THEY DID NOT RECOGNIZE THEIR OWN SAVIOR, and shouted for Him to be MURDERED!!!

But God freed us from the law, and gave us the New Testament, and His own example of love, as expressed through the record of Jesus Christ's actions as a human being.

The Jews took the law (the tool God gave) and ran with it, smothering themselves in it... exploring the law inside and out... and holding it up as authority over themselves and everyone else... guess what? Well... It had authority over them... So, it became their god. When the usefulness of the law had worn out, and it had been abused and misused, to the point of being worshipped as an authority figure, or god, over the PEOPLE, then God came to us in the form of Jesus, to show us love directly, and provide an example of living a godly and loving life. The record of this is in the New Testament.

So now we have the New Testament!

And like the Jews before them... Christians have run with it... they have explored it inside and out... they have placed it as an authority figure, or god, over their lives... and like the Jews before them... they are ABUSING and MISUSING the "Gift"... the "TOOL" God had given.

History is cyclical. Religious history too.

Christians are making THE VERY SAME ERROR that the Jews before them did!!

The Bible is a tool. It is a BOOK!

Words are merely a form of communication, nothing more.

They have no power in and of themselves.

There are no MAGICAL words, that create things or bring things to pass, simply because they are spoken. Words are a form of communication. Nothing more.

The power of WORDS... are the IDEAS they express... not the words themselves. The power is in the IDEAS.

Similarly, it is the IDEAS, concepts and understandings that the Bible expresses which are important. God didn't give us WORDS. He gave us CONCEPTS... IDEAS... HIS THOUGHTS.... HIS HEART... HIS WILL FOR US, etc...

God inspires those who listen... DIRECTLY. Some of these are prophets, who FEEL God's inspiration... but then this is filtered through their human brain, which puts the concepts into words, so they can be shared, so they can be COMMUNICATED... because words are the best form of communication that mankind has, which can be commonly understood.

But words are NOT the best form of communication that God has.

In fact, words are EXTREMEMLY limiting in the spiritual world. There's no use for words... for spoken languages, just feeling... just immediate knowledge and understanding.

Here, where time and space, and a fleshly shell, limits us... words are our best form of communication. At least for now.

Words merely express ideas.

They are NOT to be worshipped. They are NOT to be placed in authority over man. They are a communication tool.

The Bible is NOT our master. The Bible is NOT our God... it is a textbook, teaching ABOUT God.

Just as if, I were to make one small error in driving directions, and end up being completely lost in a place I never started out for, so too, can one small error lead to one being spiritually lost, and they can find themselves in a place they never meant to arrive at.

It was a small unconscious error...

But a hugely significant one!

The Bible liberated the people, for awhile, during the Protestant Reformation, when they could suddenyl read it for themselves, but as often occurs with "liberators", the people began worshipping the liberator as their savior, and by default... their god!

No Christian will admit that the bible is a "god" to them, when it is put in plain speech like that, but just watch them...

See if they don't honor the bible as they would honor God.

See if they don't hold the Bible over themselves as if it were an authority figure in their lives... as God should be instead.

See if they don't elevate the Bible to places of honor and worship, in the titles of their churches, holding the Bible up, on a equal footing with God Himself.

See if they don't depend pre-eminently upon the Bible for receiving answers, rather than God Himself, who has far more answers than can be contained in a book of only several hundred pages.

See if... rather than saying: "No man can defeat me, cause I have the love of God in my heart!" ... they instead hold the Bible up in church, and proudly affirm before the congregation... "No man can defeat me, cause I have THIS"

The Bible is a tool.

Nothing more.

It is an inanimate object that stays were it is placed.

It does not FEED THE POOR.
It does not HOUSE THE HOMELESS.
It does not LOVE MY NEIGHBOR.

It is meant to INSPIRE in us, the heart to do such things.

But the real work of God, is just that.... DOING SUCH THINGS!

Not reading about them and talking about them.

LOVE IS ACTION!

God does not love us by "feeling" a "feeling".

He loves us by DOING.

He loves us by SERVING US!

That's right my friend... SERVING US!

This is easily proven in the Bible, but even if it weren't, it would be obvious. Because, when you TRULY love someone... you serve them. You DO for them.

God loves us.

And God is no different.

He loves us, by DOING for us.

And because THAT is the God I know, feel and relate to, I want nothing more than to DO for God in return. Show me your service to God through fear... and I will show you my service to God through LOVE!

Your fear illicits service in you, but the minute the one you fear, turns their back, you would stab it.

Whereas, my love, illicits service in me, that will NEVER change. I can NEVER leave God, because I love Him. I WANT TO SERVE HIM. The love I feel from Him is so powerful, that all I want to do is return it. I want to leave this body as quickly as He'll let me, cause then I can be COMPLETELY with that love, IN SPIRIT ONLY, where there are no limitations, no barriers, and where nothing but that love exists.


I don't love laws.

I don't love rules.

I don't love "correct" worship etiquette

I don't love protocol.

I don't love rituals.

I don't love text on a page.


I LOVE HIM!

(him/her actually)

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Some years ago (1980 I think) I was hauling ass down the highway on my bike (GS 1000) when a woman pulled out in front of me and stopped.
I only had time to stand up on the break as I said "take me Jesus" before the impact. I flew over her car and landed a good 10 yards down the road. I recall seeing her face as I somersaulted over her sedan but blacked out before landing. The attendant at the station across the 4 lane came and dragged me out of the road. I wore no helmet just jeans and a T shirt.
As I came to, I stood up dusted off ( much to the amazement of the EMTs ) and looked at my bike stuck into her front wheel well. It was still running. The guy from the station said I had to have been 15 - 20 feet in the air. He was freaked out. Other than some bruising I was unfazed, declined the ambulance and simply walked away.
Luck ? or Miracle ?
I don't have to tell you which I believe.

Oh yeah George... that was a miracle, no doubt.

I had something similar happen to me, but as a child.

I had a bike too... an old beat up (but freshly painted by me ) non-motored PEDAL variety. LOL

This bike was my FREEDOM!

I might go riding for 3 or 5 hours or more, as a child, ending up miles away from home before returning.

But on one such jaunt, I darted across the street, passed some parked cars first though, so I could not see oncoming traffic very well. Well, needless to say, I got T-Boned by a car traveling pretty fast.

The impact literally flew me up into the air, spun me around 360 degrees, until I landed back on the road, still sitting on my bike, and in the same direction I was originally travelling in.

What was weird, well, several weird things...

1) I landed so softly, it literally felt as if something was holding me, and just rested me back gently on the road, soft as a feather.

2) I checked my bike, while still sitting on it, which had not been damaged at all, and strangely, though the car MUST have hit my leg, since it was on that side facing the car and the car hit me squarely, I felt no pain in my leg or anything else. Seeing I was fine, I waved to the old man, who had by now, gotten out of his car, I guess to check on me... I waved at him, and told him I was fine, and I rode off.

3) But as I rode off, I noticed that the man had a stark white face, and a look of terror on his face. He was standing there with his jaw open, as if he had seen a ghost, but here's the rub... He wasn't looking at "ME". He was looking up, about 5 feet ABOVE ME, never looked at me. He just stood there in shock, staring at something 5 feet ABOVE me, as I drove off.

Only as an adult, did I begin to wonder, if that man hadn't seen an angel above me.

Perhaps it had been an angel which took control of my short flight in the air, spinning all the way around, but landing as if I had been placed delicately and softly back on the ground.

I don't know that this is what he saw.

But to this day, it was bizarre, how something this man saw, spooked the daylights out of him, so that he couldn't take his eyes off whatever he was looking at... just above me.

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I may as well share this one too...

Being hit by a car as a child, was not the only brush with death for me.

When I married my first wife, I convinced her to move back home to Florida with me. After getting married, we got in the car... A tiny old Datsun (remember those?) and I started driving for Florida, from Maryland.

My new wife, ended up falling asleep as we drove down a long country road to the main highway. Neither of us had our seatbelts, because we BOTH hated seatbelts, and they didn't have strong laws about that at the time. No one could make either of us wear a seatbelt. We hated them. We were young.

So, she is soundly sleeping, and even begins snoring.

She's out.

Suddenly, while turned AWAY from me, totally asleep and snoring...

Mid-snore... in her sleep, without even looking at me, or waking up.... she says "Craig... (snore) ... put your (snore) seatbelt on."

Being the dominant male type that I was, when I was younger, well, a woman telling me to do something, was all the more reason NOT TO DO IT!

But for some reason, I didn't have that reaction, as I normally would have. And I just obeyed, and reached down, and put on a seatbelt, which for YEARS before that, I would NEVER wear.

I just put it on.

Less than 5 minutes later...


I came up to a huge semi-tractor-trailer rig, which appeared to be making a left hand turn, since his left-turn signal was blinking. But unbeknowst to me, the driver actually making a WIDE turn to the RIGHT!!!! The truck was so big, it had to turn wide LEFT, to make the RIGHT HAND TURN on the narrow street he was turning right onto.

But his truck was almost jack-knifed, to make that turn, and I hadn't see his cab, go from left, back to right.

So being impetuous and always in a hurry to get where I was going, I drove AROUND the rig, to it's right, to pass him, only to see the cab of the truck suddenly directly in front of me!!!

There was no time to avoid hitting his cab, doing 60 miles an hour easy, IN A DATSUN, dead-on, full impact. I swerved the wheel, so that my side of the car took the brunt of the impact, but it was all over. The engine was in my lap almost, and though I was wearing a seatbelt, my head still hit the windshield and steering column, and I was unconscious with blood everywhere.

The seatbelt is the only thing that saved me from being completely crushed and killed instantly. The only reason that my wife lived, was that she was ASLEEP (as I mentioned). Being asleep, her body was limber (like how drunks survive crashes so often, while the other car, everyone dies) and because her body was limber, being asleep, she slid into the floor-board, being braced between the dashboard and the seat. Sliding into that little space, saved her. But she was unconscious too.

When I woke up, people were around, and I could see they were trying to get me out of the car. As they pulled me out, I saw my wife on the ground sprawled out (they had pulled her out first) and when I saw her unconscious... I lost consciousness again myself. The next time I woke up, I was lying next to her on the ground, and I tried to sit up and wake her up... when she wouldn't wake up... it made me lose consciousness again, and the next time I woke up, we were being transported in an ambulance to the hospital.

I still have a very nasty scar along my eyebrow line to show for this day, which even surgery didn't repair, it was so deep of a gash.

But that scar is a reminder to me, and always will be, that I serve a REAL and LIVING God, who is INVOLVED in our lives, and WHO COMMUNICATES with us, and can even control our actions when we are sleeping, as when my wife said something, she had previously NEVER said...

"Craig, put on your seatbelt."

She did that ASLEEP!

Maybe 3 or 4 minutes later, BOOM!

I had T-Boned a Semi-Tractor-Trailer rig in a DATSUN!

These are only TWO of the things throughout my life, which have shown me how REAL God is, and that there is someone BEYOND US, looking out for us, involved in our lives. Calling us to Himself. Trying to bring us to productive lives, and loving hearts.

God is real my friends!


THIS DATSUN IS SIMILAR TO THE MODEL I HAD:
(imagine hitting a huge rig in it, doing 60 miles an hour into basically a brick wall)




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Playing the Devil's Advocate as usual, I have had many events in my life when God had an opportunity to take me:

* ran into a dead-end barrier going 50 (drunk)
* was a passenger in a car that flipped into a cow pasture (drunk again)
* passed out and hit a car head on (not drunk but...)
* drunk driver crossed the yellow line and totalled my car (totally straight that time)

There are many more but I will spare you the details. Were these miracles or luck? Can a non-believer be the beneficiary of a miracle?

Miracles by definition defy natural laws. The miracle of birth? Not a miracle. Surviving accidents? Not a miracle. Not when your body avoided a fatal impact due to natural physics. Recovering from cancer over time with treatment? Not a miracle. Regrowing an arm? That would be a miracle. Miracles in bible times were clear and instant. Leprosy gone and pure healthy flesh replacing it. Known blind or crippled people seeing or walking. Dead stinking corpses - Lazarus - raised from the dead. Miracles.

Thanks Paul, that is pretty clear. So Moses parting the Red Sea? Miracle. Me surviving to see another birthday? Not miracle.