General Music Chat

I'm going to agree with George on this one. While I think it's great that you covered the gig, think about it: You replaced the musicians with canned music, and when you did play, it was a solo gig. You also seem very happy with the fact that the club owners want to book JUST you...
Your bandmates aren't going to thank you for that. I'm kind of suprised by the amount of support you've recieved here on this, as we've had this type of discussion many times, and most of us seem to agree that DJ's and solo acts are killing oppurtunities for bands (I thought that's what the agreement was, anyway).
The fact that it's "one of our own" doing it doesn't make it okay.
The fact that you had a blast doing it doesn't make it okay.
Call me an a$$hole, if ya want, but I feel like it's the same attitude that too many people have: "It's wrong until I do it, then it's okay."
Right now, those club owners are thinking "Why should we pay a band when one guy can come in with his CD player and do it all?" This is exactly the reason that, in my area, a band can barely get a gig.
DJ's, Karaoke, solo acts and free open mics. Oh, and don't let me forget...Elvis Impersonators. Yeah.

Joeseph all I can say is if the bands are so bad in your area that they cant get gigs over a DJ or Karoake then they must really suck!

Most of the places I play have Karaoke one night, a DJ another night, a band night, even trivia nights.

I have no intention of quitting my band, on the other hand I have a couple of free nights a week and a local little club that would allow me to put on my own show of some sort. I may try it a couple of times. I am first and foremost an entertainer. My job in my band is to entertain people and I do it well.

Once again I made the best of a bad situation, if you dont have the ability to overcome sh*t like this happening then maybe you should just go back to McDonalds where someone lays it all out for you. I made my mind up years ago noone was going to tell me how to fix fries again!

No, actually, there are some really decent bands around here, and the clubs did the same thing for a while (karaoke one night, then a DJ, then a band). Then the club owners figured out that they could pay less for the DJs, and cut out the bands. It doesn't matter how GOOD a band is around here, only that you'll play for peanuts, cuz that's what the DJs are doing. I think it's really sad that you would make that kind of assumption. I personally know some VERY talented musicians, but by your logic, they can't get booked, so they suck. That's wonderful, dude. Really.

I'm not knocking you for fulfilling an obligation. I'm knocking you for going the artificial route. Crip mentioned whipping out the acoustic. Had you done that, I would be impressed. Instead, like your comments about our local bands and the McDonald's thing, you took the low road.
I would think that anyone as talented musically as you would understand. You've spent years honing your craft, refining your art. Then one day, your services aren't needed because some guy off the street had a little extra cash and "bought" his talent. And guess what? He's an entertainer, too.
I'm sure some folks think I'm blowing it all out of proportion, but I feel like you planted a seed. Whether you like to admit it or not, those club owners are going to book less bands-all thanks to you.

DJ hunt...
everybody in the back o the truck...

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

"my dog is a bitch"

Joeseph, did you read that I got my guitar out and played unnacompanied for an hour and a half.

My statement stands if the musicians in your area cant get enough people to come to shows and support them something is wrong with their approach. This is all supply and demand and it doesnt sound like folks are supplying what is in demand. It really has nothing to do with how good you are. Some of the sorriest musicians I know get great gigs cause they play music that makes people want to hear them. While some of the best "players" I know dont get gigs cause they will not play what people want to hear.

You my friend are in a business, if you want to take the high road here why dont you just stay at home. If you as a group or musician cant produce enough revenue for a business to want to hire you and pay you then you are not connecting with an audience. That doesnt mean you or anyone sucks, that was a harsh term cause everyone sucks to someone. But to get on a forum like this and blasting me for being creative in the heat of the moment is simply bullshit.


For the record I played CDs yes CDs of my band Aint Yo Mama, no it wasnt live but it was my band nonetheless that did the recording. Members of my band were in other original groups and yes I played CDs of thier music as well. Totally unprepared I played an hour and a half set alone. In this set I did even play some of my own music and had folks dancing to it.

And now JW 123 is killing the music industry and selling out!

WTF

Maybe you take yourself a little too seriously.

Once again if you cant find gigs then maybe you need to rethink your own program. Whatever Im doing seems to be working. My band is getting to play in venues that also feature DJs and Karaoke and we are getting paid. We arent a working band per se, cause everyone has a normal life and work life but we turn down more gigs than we take, so something seems to be working on my end. And the club that I did the solo gig in has already contacted me for my band to play again.

I put storys up to be productive and to give others ideas that maybe havent been in this deal for too long. Our band provides music the whole time we are in a venue. That includes breaks, where oh my gosh we play canned music, there i go again killing the whole industry. We do this so we control whats going on. In this canned music we try to place songs that we dont play ourselfs and know that people want to hear.

So to end my little rant: Im sorry to my fellow bandmixers for killing the music business as we know it!

Once again, I must chime in on this.

I've seen some DJ's who were very excellent entertainers. They didn't just spin CD's & LP's & leave it at that. They interacted with the audience. They told jokes. They danced like loons & dressed like clowns & MADE the ppl have fun.

In fact, I'm sorry to say this, but I've seen more entertaining DJ's in the last 10 years than BANDS in my area! The bands stand there like statues, take too long between songs, act like they're all that, but neglect the audience. They don't even talk with the ppl during their damned breaks! They get drunk or high & sound like crap by the 2nd or 3rd set. They let the music speak for irself, & they haven't a clue how to do the one thing that is the most important part of the music biz - make the ppl happy. They seem to think that the music will do it all. Sorry, but it never has. Not by itself. The reason ppl used to go out was for a floor show, a good time dancing, to laugh & have fun. The main reason they don't go out as much these days, aside from the cost & the cops, is that bands don't do dance music as much, they don't put forth any effort to be entertaining, they're usually too loud for the ppl to talk, & they often sound the same every time you see them. If you do the right thing by the ppl, they will come, whether or not the weather is bad (like they did for JW, here) or if the cops are out, or even if they're flat broke! They'll FIND a way to go for a good time, more often than not.

That being said, I can see why bars will go for DJ's, who WON'T be too loud, who WILL be fun for the audience, who DO supply the music that ppl want, & are cheaper to boot! And I hate to say it, but I can't really blame them.

Musicians tend to think one-dimensionally about music. Does the band SOUND GOOD? That's all that matters to them. Regular folks are much more demanding. They can hear good music everywhere - TV, radio, elevators & stores & yes, karaoke & DJ's, too. What many musicians think of as a "decent band" is in actuality a boring-assed act to a non-musician. They won't draw a crowd. And the "decent band" is left thinking that ppl just don't give a damn about good music anymore.

Wrong. They don't care about lousy acts anymore. They've had it with the same old that most musicians have been putting out there for 30 plus years.

If you wanna play for musicians, you'll be left in the poor house, even if you can find venues to play in. Musicians are terrible tippers, cheap bastids, & lousy audiences as a rule. I know cuz I am one.

If you want to play for regular folks, you really need to put forth some frikken effort & be entertaining to more than just musicians. You need to be visual. You need to be funny. You need to get the audience involved. If you can't do that, you may as well stay home & record stuff & try to sell it to REAL PERFORMERS, cuz no one will ever care about you if all you do is play guitar & sing songs.

And ya know what? IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY, IN GOOD TIMES & BAD. During the great depression, ppl still flocked to the speakeasy. Why? To get away from the drudgery of their lives & HAVE FUN. They spent money they couldn't afford to spend for that escape, even back then. So why don't we give it back to them now?

Joeseph,

I guess I took your post a little too personal. Your beef with me is that a guy doing DJ work is beating out work for bands. Thats the gist of what you said. If Im wrong correct me. But why does a DJ beat a live band? Economics is the bottom line. I got offered $200 a night to do my one man DJ/MC/COMEDY/SOLO gig. This venue pays my band $500 straight up. My band is a 5 way cut so its $100 a man whereas I can get $200 on my own. From a business standpoint, and if I played music for money what should I do? I chose to stay in the band cause I love playing in bands, nothing like it to me.

Now back to you in your area, What can we do to get more gigs? Do you know any companies that might sponsor you to play gigs? I have acquired a couple of outside sponsors to pay my band to advertise. I dont use this every gig, I do it when we get one of those competitive situations that will not pay us enough to be there. I get the sponsor to kick in some outside money so I can pay everyone. See this is business, and going outside the box. Maybe you could try something like this. If you could get a couple of sponsors to pay you guys say $400 for a show, then you could go to the club owner and say I can beat the DJ who gets $150 or $200. I'll do it for free provided we can advertise for such n such company.

I realize that your focus is original music and the reality of that quest is that you are going to do a lot of free gigs. Unless you can develop a really good following. How do you do that? Somehow you have to make people chose to come see you over other entertainment choices they have. Sounds simple, but I know its not. Maybe there are some other similiar groups in your area that you could get together and share gigs with. If you can get 2 or 3 groups together it just means more people for the club than a single band.

In my area quite a few live music clubs have closed for a variety of reasons. One of our best venues is a corporate entity and only pays a set amount. The manager has no say so in the matter so I can feel your frustration. To play this venue I have to get outside money in to help pay the group. Thats how I get around these issues.

This month we are doing a benefit for free. Im not sure the cause, but Im sure I will find out soon enough. We are providing sound and lights. We have 2 more groups that will open for us. We are playing for free at a venue that we ussually take the door at and do pretty good with. So whats in it for us? Well number one by playing with a couple of other similiar bands we hope to gain fans. Also the local paper will give us a really good free pr story, and Im in good with the club owner cause we did our civic duty.

I brought this up cause as an original artist there are always benefits for causes out there that would give you a slot playing. Ussually no pay, but most of the time you dont have to play as long as a 4 hour club gig, and you might get in front of some new fans that will help build your following.

Sorry I was negative cause this is really about sharing

So instead of critisizing each other on this forum like a couple of little kids maybe we should try to help each other with our problems.

Good Luck

I'll bet you never expected all this negativity from your trooper performance.

Allow me to clairify my position on this subject.

First off I had no intent of setting off a fire with my "wink wink" jab at John.

Secondly, I feel that John is aware of my respect for him as an entertainer and musician.

I do agree with the points brought forward by Joseph as well.

Bravo, for John fulfilling his obligation. Hopefully his client is intelligent enough to realise that John went out on a limb for his venue.

We are a praise band. We play for "free" though we have accepted monitary compensation as "gifts". So I am as "responsable" for the degredation of pay / venues as John.
Perhaps even more so.

George, charge MORE and donate it to charity.

I'll bet you never expected all this negativity from your trooper performance.

Bob, thats to be expected when you stick yourself out there.

Im suprised since I mentioned that I did play my guitar solo unprepared. I dont know a whole lot of people that can pull that off.

Joesephs profile suggests that he is an original act with a few covers sprinkled in to get gigs. If he is going to places that have DJs normally for their entertainment why would they hire him anyway? I mean the audience is used to canned cover music. If you are trying to be original go to original venues. The music on his profile wouldnt fit anywhere that I play. Thats just my opinion. If he wants to play in those venues then simply go ask the venue owner to play for the door. Its really simple then that puts it on your back to produce a crowd.

Actually in my area I am taking a little flack from a couple of bands. 2 of the venues I play in have asked me what to do about bands and paying them. They mentioned to me that they were thinking of going back to DJs. I said if you want live bands then just let them work for the door. Thats what my band does most of the time. Some of the bands had gotten used to making their $400 dollars set pay. One called me up and was bitching at me. I said dude now you can make twice that much. You just got to bring a crowd. Anyway its always something and anything you do will be taken negatively by someone.

The bottom line is that playing music is entertainment and it is competition. If a venue can make more money with a DJ than they can with your band then you need to figure a new approach. I love Charmin bathroom tissue, but I buy the cheapest I can find to save a little money. Why should a venue pay you a premium over other sources of entertainment if they dont get a return?

That truly is our intended goal Bob. Right now its about gaining some face time as a band. We have been building for about two years. Many of us are new musicians, it takes some time to create something we feel would be good enough to put in the public eye.
We still are planning to do a CD for a pro pack. The economy has put us off target a little,( two of our members have lost or changed jobs recently, another has gone back to school so he can better support his new family) yet we remain undaunted.
As far a charity is concerned. My preference would be that each member give a percentage to our own home Churches. We will leave that up to each individual bandmate to decide. Sometimes the best form of charity is to support your own extended family. Dont you agree?

I think any time you have to fill in, unprepared and it's a success, you have to think it's all on the up and up.

Think about the convex, would have anything been learned by it being bad?

NO.

A solo success = great..

An unprepared solo success = priceless..

I was looking back for my first post. This ain't it but is a cool thread Huh JW?

Yes, in deed. Too bad it got bogged down in the old DJ vs band thing.

Yes, in deed. Too bad it got bogged down in the old DJ vs band thing.

The reason I revived this thread is because IMO its a damn good thread! It starts out with a gig cancelled. Most of us would have been bumed out and just went home. After it turns to the old dj vs. band thing John and Philby make some great points. IMO they are points worth revisiting for bands that are serious about their show!

The funny thing Haley I never did one of those DJ gigs, that gal called me a couple of times and I just said no. Then there was a change in ownership and management and we never played there again.

Actually I went to another area and played solo and duo acoustic gigs for a few monthes after this thread, weird when you look back at old threads.

I dont know where the pictures went thou! LOL