General Music Chat

thanks for the input Gtzip

With all the responses here, I think I got a months worth of learning 'how to learn' LOL

Everything seems like a good approach, I will try it all and see what sticks.

This is turning out to be one of the greatest threads ever

Wow Shredd, That poor bastard just should give up and go home.
Maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

Hahaha.. Dude, the look on his face at the end is priceless!!

I have to stick my neck out and put in my $.02. I have absolutely no guitar knowledge ( except you need to know 3 chords ) I have a friend who is a classically trianed pianist with her degree. She is now taking jazz and feels totally inept. What is holding her back is her classical training, I'm sure. Having to compose on the spot is like walking on a bridge...blind-folded. What she doesn't realize that walking across the bridge blindfolded is okay, as long as you know there is a bridge. In music, of all sorts, where improvisation is the norm you gotta have a bridge> not just scales ( which is very important ) but you should have a working knowledge of familiar tunes to use as quotes ( what ) and develop your ear. For example, throw in a phrase from Purple Haze, or the Flintstones. My classical friend has this bridge, now if she would only put on that blindfold and take that step. In all actuality, what we are learning in improv has been done by people who do not know what they were playing. That work was written down on paper which is good but the paper isn't the music.Step out on that bridge and don't be afraid of tripping...you mighy discoer something.

When you modulate from a major root to a minor fifth, the fingering is the same. Some of the scales you are playing over certain keys in a backing tracck may sound sour because they are dissonant with the emphasized notes in the scale that makes up the chord that denotes the key of the song.
For example:
If your playing something in the key of C Major-CDEFGABC
OR 12345678, you can play just about anything. Some scales will sound sweeter than others because of the natural pulls to resolution between the 4-5 and the 6-7 tones in the chord.

But if you're playing in B Phrygian- B C D E F# G A B
or 1234 5# 678,
and you try to play in B major B C# D# E F# G# A# B,
The C#, D#,G#, and A# of the B major scale will clash with the C, D G, and A of the B Phrygian.
The modes are relative to a specific key.
However, you can't just play any scale as long as it's in the same key.
You can study before hand and try to plan out your jams, or you can learn through a lengthy process of trial and error.
A C Lydian would work well over a B Phrygian:
A C Lydian is- C D E F# G A B C
A B Phrygian is- B C D E F# G A B
The only difference is the root note.
But if you played the C Lydian scale and make the 4# emphazied as if it were the root, it would fit quite well.
Study will help you quickly reference options that you have on any given situation. Practice, Practice, Practice.
Practice will make perfect.

Ok, er what were you smokin when you wrote that?

I'm soo lost.

I really don't think you can smoke knowledge.
Excuse me for being smart.
What age do we live in that competence is contemptable?

Ok, er what were you smokin when you wrote that?

I'm soo lost.

Believe-it-or-not,I totally get what the hunter is saying because it was discussed at jazz camp. This is where I envy guitarists. If I were to do a modulation, I have to really think about the modulation...I can't just move my fingers up or down my flute in the same pattern. But, these licks are still adored and learned by us horn players.

A C Lydian is- C D E F# G A B C
A B Phrygian is- B C D E F# G A B

do we agree that whether you are in c lydian or b phrygian depends completely on the chord progression you are playing over?
ie, if you are playing over Bmi7 Emi7 Cma7 Bmi7
you can say you are in c lydian all you want but you are really in b phrygian.
the fingering for either is exactly the same...

"However, you can't just play any scale as long as it's in the same key. "
b major is in the same key as b phrygian but the b-phrygian key center would be 'a major'...
depending on the chords you pick you may limit yourself to 'a major' -oops g major! alone, but you might be able to add color with a lydian or even a mixolydian...

I need some advil

here ya... I don't think you have to understand everything everyone is saying... just digest what you can and come back for more later...

as I recall hunter is a skilled jazz player... (am I thinking of the right guy hunter? big alan holdsworth fan?)
and his advice is good...

I've responded to see if I'm understanding him right... and to see if his understanding jives with mine,
not because it will benefit you, but because I learn something every time I try to describe my own understanding of the 'rules'.
not all of us were meant to play jazz but we can all benefit from the theory it tends to adhere to...

you've been given several different approaches from many types of players here... many of whom have spent years to arrive at those understandings - either just playing or going to school or some combo
of the both...... most of us have been overwhelmed by our own pursuit at one point or another too... keep asking questions... that's the best you can do.

Thank Mike,
It all just recently started coming together for me, and I was starting to realize that with scales and modes, it was like seeing:

0+5=5
1+4=5
2+3=5
3+2=5
4+1=5
5+0=5

And then I started asking questions, now it looks like:

1.2 + 3.8 = 5 (too)

Etc...

So I do have a lot of homework to do. I should have worked on lead 15 years ago, but instead I just smoked a ton of pot and just played what sounded good when I was baked lol.

oops /shrug

As long as you are pushing yourself forward its positive.

I went to an indie label fest last thursday and met some guys that have been playing for 30 yrs and still sound like I did the second time I picked up a guitar. I think as a player you need to constantly evolve or what s the point of doing it. I dont know modes but I can make a guitar sound pretty good and with 6-700 songs in my brain I can wear most players out.

But remember audiences dont have a clue about modes. I can play YYZ by Rush and nail it and the crowd says nothing play Louie Louie and they go nuts. Im in it live for the nuts. I can play YYZ in anytime for myself.

here ya... I don't think you have to understand everything everyone is saying... just digest what you can and come back for more later...

as I recall hunter is a skilled jazz player... (am I thinking of the right guy hunter? big alan holdsworth fan?)
and his advice is good...

I've responded to see if I'm understanding him right... and to see if his understanding jives with mine,
not because it will benefit you, but because I learn something every time I try to describe my own understanding of the 'rules'.
not all of us were meant to play jazz but we can all benefit from the theory it tends to adhere to...

you've been given several different approaches from many types of players here... many of whom have spent years to arrive at those understandings - either just playing or going to school or some combo
of the both...... most of us have been overwhelmed by our own pursuit at one point or another too... keep asking questions... that's the best you can do.

This is a good point. Get ideas from everywhere and let some ideas sink in. Sometimes you might fall super flat on your face. That is great. Falling flat on your face helps you to advance to success. Charlie Parker played an improved solo on his rendition of "My Favorite Things" by Oscar and Hammerstein and it lasted too long. Miles Davis asked him why he played so long and CP said he just couldn't stop. Miles said " Just take your ax outta your mouth." So sometimes the best thing is knowing when to stop. No advil needed.

So far I see 3 people saying the same thing, thus it would infer that the 3 are not all that clear on what they are trying to explain, lest they would have recognized what was being said was duplicated.

please, do elaborate.