General Music Chat

Hey philbymon brother! It's funny that you bring up the whole Paganini thing because he happens to be one of my influences as well, but you're right about playing it slow; it just doesn't sound right. Some of my stuff is the same way as well, but that's how it goes if that's what you're after. Racer X...I met and jammed with Paul Gilbert when I was in Hanover Fist back in the early to mid 90's and I can tell ya that he's a really cool dude even though he's kind of weird. That's also when I got to meet Zakk Wylde and jam with him as well thanks to Vince. I never should have moved back here... Anyhow here's some links to Symphony X and Mystic Prophecy. I've uploaded a ton of stuff to MediaFire to share with awesome people like you all. These are full albums:

Symphony X - The Odyssey

Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?l3hl9k9cdf1

Mystic Prophecy - Regressus

Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?wblbx2dyiez

I just hooked my new Behringer digital board up last night to my Lexicon interface and got it going so I'll post up some of my new ideas (no effects at all and straight through the amp and not mastered) to see what you cool dudes and dudettes think. If I don't like the board, then I'll just go back to the interface to get things done.

Lony: I love your take on the whole issue and about drinking shitloads of yogurt. You're freakin awesome girl! I get it btw...

Irm: I agree with you on the Beethoven thing as I play his stuff everyday on piano and understand why he wrote that and I believe that you're right. Last night I played Fur Elise which is kind of gay, but cool at the same time.

Later everyone and have a "Shreddin" day!!!

I'm kind of thinking that the new direction will be a mix of metalcore, hardcore, old-school thrash, and new-school dissodant chording (derived from free jazz).

thats the direction I want to take stuff in (ignore the crap tracks I have up been to busy rearing child to record) but in all honesty isn't the method of striking repeating lines that progress the core of good music? the real problem is as was mentioned earlier tuning way down dropped D satisfies my need for a resonant tone and lets me into good progressions, as far as metal being dead move up to ny we love it up here not that we have a bar scene to speak of but any show I've been to hasn't been a ghost town but at a 40 min highway ride away and hating cars...I can't check out the local scene

Where do you get that metal is close to classical music? Honest question.

Some variations of metal are classically influneced. Or can be "close to classical".
Listen to 'Orion' from Metallicas album Master of Puppets. That's a classical piece to me.

Yes, I know the song but I still don't see the connection. Do you mean metal uses similar structure of it's songs, like the Sonata (introduction, exposition, development, recapitulation), fugue, scherzo etc? Or do you mean it sometimes uses chord progressions or cadances reminiscent of classic or pre-classic (baroque, renaissance etc)? I ask because, outside of some intentionally derivative metal pieces, I don't see a consistent resemblence.

It depends on the derivation of metal you're talking about...the neo-classical players such as Malmsteen et al definitely use the scales, arpeggios and other "tricks" of classical music, especially the baroque. Death metal tends not to use those things, while older metal such as Judas Priest use the scales but also use blues, etc. Most of the monster players can do any riff that a classically trained musician can do (Van Halen was classically trained and played violin and piano).

Play your old Segovia LP's through your Fuzz Face - WOW!

It depends on the derivation of metal you're talking about...the neo-classical players such as Malmsteen et al definitely use the scales, arpeggios and other "tricks" of classical music, especially the baroque. Death metal tends not to use those things, while older metal such as Judas Priest use the scales but also use blues, etc. Most of the monster players can do any riff that a classically trained musician can do (Van Halen was classically trained and played violin and piano).

Ah, I see now. Maybe the OP meant that some metal players admire classical music or come from some training, and it seeps into their work that way.

From what I've heard, when metal truly starts to use the forms and cadances of real classical music, it turns into Prog Rock.

Yes, I know the song but I still don't see the connection. Do you mean metal uses similar structure of it's songs, like the Sonata (introduction, exposition, development, recapitulation), fugue, scherzo etc? Or do you mean it sometimes uses chord progressions or cadances reminiscent of classic or pre-classic (baroque, renaissance etc)? I ask because, outside of some intentionally derivative metal pieces, I don't see a consistent resemblence.

Mainly the latter.
The use of oblique and contrary motion, modal progressions (or 'riffs') and the heavy use of modes for solo lines -- Phrygian, Locrian, Mixolydian. Use of the Harmonic Minor scale.

For what it's worth I don't see a 'consistent' resemblence either, but it was said that metal was 'close to classical', and in comparing it to other
modern genres of music I would agree that it is 'closer', in many instances, than the rest of the modern field.

(Opinion based on my listening experiences -- not on personal expertise concerning classical music.)

This reply is to Dev the Demented. He asked something to the effect where does metal go from here? I'm certainly no expert on metal or just about any other genre of music. But when I listen to the current bands classified as metal I cannot understand a single word of vocals. One of the reasons why the country venues are packed is the ability to understand the vocals. There's a bunch of people who actually LISTEN to vocals. Words in a song actually MEAN something to a lot of people. If somehow you could create metal with the vocals OUT FRONT in the mix I believe a lot more people would get into it. When I was a teenager one of my favorite bands was Black Sabbath. I mean the first time I heard them it was like being hit in the head with a sledgehammer. What a revolution in music that was and a revelation for me as a rebellious teenager ( and I WAS very rebellious). Somehow metal has evolved where the tone and power of the instrumentation has totally made the vocals secondary. I'm not saying make the music more wimpy and the vocals stronger. I am saying maintain the power (volume and power are two completely different things) of the music and ELEVATE the vocals. To me there's nothing more important in any genre of music than maintaining a balance between instruments and the vocals. In my opinion metal has gotten completely away from balance and in my opinion may be a big factor in lessening of fan interest in it. Later...

I agree. It really isn't about volume, but balance. The best metal acts I have ever watched really aren't that loud - they just have crafted a balanced, powerful sound in which you can hear everything super clean.

OK, one exception - I saw Motorhead back in the late 70s, in Washington DC. They were EARS BLEED loud and as much as I liked some of their songs at the time, I left half way through because it was just too damned loud to enjoy.

The success of the mediocre band Black Tide assured me that metal is pretty f*cking dead.

That's why I'm trying to reinvent heavy blues music haha

It’s tougher to maintain the venues that not only heavy metal, but rock and roll thrived on for so long. With the stricter DUI, anti-smoking, outrageous insurance and the amount of liability owning a bar. For a liquor license alone in New Jersey depending on location can cost anywhere between a half and over a million dollars. That’s a lot of startup capital for a local bar. When I was 21 there was at least four different bars within a ten minute drive from my home that did live music. Now the only bars within that same radius are Fridays, Houlihans, Bennigans and Applebees. The startup cost and liability are an investment that the bigger corporations have no problems digesting and Muzak the genre of music to digest it by.

Most of the more rustic music, blues, rock, heavy metal depends a lot on performance. It’s not usually the quality of the fidelity that sells it, but the amount of fun (geesh I just said the “f” word) while you’re there. So the other genres that can be directly associated with technology, techno, rave, rap, new age etc. naturally have an automatic fan base though the internet and an advantage by there very nature. “Gee this band is great, I wonder if I can download a ring tone from them?” This increased overexposure ensures a limited flavor and expectation of music, by the time someone is old enough to drive.

A good tune is no big deal when I can hear it right here, right now, over the cell phone or iPod or in some cases the combination of both. The ability to actually play an instrument is optional, but makes for a good prop during music videos or album art. The local options for building a fan base are extremely limited and the competition fierce. Hence why the mediocre can triumph over the really talented, as long as they can afford to buy the polish and a professional internet presence and actively promote themselves on the web. If you are not, or do not know an adept web-master, you are already behind the eight ball. I don’t care if you can play Hendrix while doing a handstand. The quality and quantity of promotion, is going to way outstrip the quality of talent in importance in this environment for commercial success. Think reality shows here. Is the quality so much better then something actually scripted and performed by professional actors? So why wouldn’t music in general, follow the same avenue? Or maybe the Backstreet Boys are just that good and I missed it somehow?

Not to mention the immediate problems associated with a rowdy and free environment, that something like metal, or even just hard rock portrays. Any social grit in this society has successfully been stamped out by rampant political correctness and a lower threshold of personal jeopardy, as dictated by insurance companies and soccer moms. It’s enough to drive people into buying beige minivans. If I want to drink smoke or misbehave in any manor whatsoever, it’ll have to be done at home, without the increasing hassle. Live music will continue to suffer more and more because of this prevailing preference. Until at last we will have the perfect utopia and any unorthodox tendencies, like drinking and smoking, has been utterly eradicated. Unanimous conformity is hardly conducive to fringe ideas presented through Heavy Metal.

I just saw this commercial for a drug for old guys who have troubles peeing. The scenario is a couple of geezers “out on the town”. lol They are out in a convertible drinking bottled water, wearing yuppie polo shirts. I’m surprised they weren’t playing miniature golf, it’s enough to make me want to puke. Those same folks they are supposed to represent, were the ones dropping acid and burning draft cards thirty years ago. Generation x dictated the guidelines and everyone after is running with it.

I absolutely hate rap, but in my opinion it’s the only genre left that has anything at all to do with rebellion. What’s to rebel against, when a majority of younger folks are active representatives of social responsibility to begin with? Mayhem, anarchy, chaos, death, evil, are threats to the very framework they are vehemently supporting. Now if you can do some politically correct and socially responsible heavy metal, then you’re on to something. (*yawn*) Sadly heavy metal and hard rock with it, has come and already left, its very nature and content making it more and more obscure and without purpose. At least blues has an emotional niche and country non intrusive familiarity. Think happy happy thoughts instead, we live in an age where even Las Vegas has been successfully Disneyfied and child proofed by corporate America. Where does heavy metal even fit in there?

As I see it the bar scene is headed for a dead end and local “live” music along with it. That includes heavy metal, rock and blues. Hey look at the bright side, at least it didn’t die alone. There is nothing left anymore, between the six old drunks sitting at some local unknown dive and the multiple thousand seat arena. Unless you have an awesome web presence, ruthless and untiring marketing and enough cash to grease those wheels. Just my opinion, but I did give it a little thought, feel free to entirely disagree.

Oh please God not the minivan.

Wow, lalong! That was some rant!

SO basically, metal & all other forms of live music is dead cuzza our lousy society, eh?

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree. I have a deep abiding hatred for MADD, etc, for creating this mess.

It's time for a new revolution, & I'm gonna get to it as soon as this movie's over on my big screen.

.....
As I see it the bar scene is headed for a dead end and local “live” music along with it. That includes heavy metal, rock and blues. Hey look at the bright side, at least it didn’t die alone. There is nothing left anymore, between the six old drunks sitting at some local unknown dive and the multiple thousand seat arena. Unless you have an awesome web presence, ruthless and untiring marketing and enough cash to grease those wheels. Just my opinion, but I did give it a little thought, feel free to entirely disagree.

I absolutely agree with this, and think that it's been a long time coming.

There are a lot of reasons I believe it, but the main one is due to technology. It used to be that bars and clubs were THE thing for entertainment, for people to enjoy music outside of their records and tapes. Live music anywhere was a big deal, a real event; and people would come out of the wordwork for it. When I was a teen they had these things called "Roadhouses" which were like larger venue bars, where traveling rock bands play as spots on their tours. Although they were a cut above your average bar band, they weren't Madison Square Garden material either, which created a sort of medium/pro niche of rock music that has since disappeared. These Roadhouses were almost always packed, and quite something.

Since those days, we have tech'd ourselves into the internet, iPods, DVDs and alot of other trickery to entertain us and take up our time and money. It is no longer a big deal that a band is playing live at a club down the street. Because of that the venues disappeared. They disappear and the music they service starts to disappear.

But like everything else, demise also leads to creation. New venues, new types of music will come into being because people do still crave a good live performance.