General Music Chat

I will keep what you said in mind Wegman. I have never been fond of that whole PMIA finger picking style that classical guitarist use, but I will take a better look at it. I am very big on accuracy, I try and play things 100% precise. The only time I ever alter anything would be in a guitar solo, or by adding something that was not there to the piece. I am not a Van Halen fan, I do not like his sound. But I know he is big on multi-finger tapping, and that is something I do work on quite often. I do hear a lot of classical pieces in which I put onto the guitar, either by ear, or by locating the transcribed tablature for it.

I do not usually bypass the rules of the guitar, but when it comes to finger picking I just pick the way I feel is comfortable. My carpal tunnel can be restricting, so I tend to pick how I feel will not hurt it. There are a lot of rules on this instrument you cannot really bypass though, such as sweep picking, I had to learn that and I hated learning that. It was hard on my hands, and still I have a bit of trouble with the 5-6 string sweeps.

So in reality, I have really been learning to do things accurately, the only thing I tend to alter is the finger picking to how I am comfortable. But I will take a look at the PMIA finger picking style that the classical guitarists use. If it is comfortable I will stick to it, but if it is not I will probably just stray back onto what I already do now.

There is only one more guitar rule of thumb I do not follow, but it is perhaps because I cannot seem to, and that is alternative picking. I tend to do down strokes, I only go upwards when I need to skip strings, or when I feel comfortable to.

Basically, not to be perplexing, but I have sort of already adapted my own technique to playing. But is is always good to learn new ones, so I will take a look at what you are talking about.

Thanks for all the help man, I really appreciate it, without that kind of help I can never become the master guitarist that I want to be.

Peace out man, GuitarAnatomy.

jimmydanger, Re: "Black Dog."
Cool song.
I used to play it, and I thought it was easy. (but - keep reading).
I learned it by finding it by accident, and I just played with the song until I got the whole song down. I loved playing it.
No problem.
Then one day, a couple months after I "learned" it, I happened to listen to the original again.
Ooops!
I remember thinking, "Dam, what's he doing with that rhythm-thing on the picking? That's not right! Cheeeez - didn't he start that too early? What the heck? Hey! . . . . wait a minute! How can it be wrong? He wrote it . . ."
Hmmm . . . guess maybe I got it wrong . . . .

So, at that stage, the song got harder . . .
.
Guitaranatomy;
Carpal tunnel can stop you permanantly.
Leo Kottke, a verified 'guitar-master,' learned about wrist pain the hard way. He was performing 5 - 6 days a week. He had to stop giving concerts for 3 months, or risk permanantly losing his ability to play.
. . .
You've got to differentiate between pain and injury.
If it's in your L. wrist, Bar chords (- your basic sliding "F") can be the culprit.
It took me 25 years to notice/learn the following.
> Check your wrist position - see if you need to learn a better way . . ..
> The problem will continually and steadily get worse if you don't stop re-injuring yourself. If your left forearm is sore after playing, it may not be the muscles. It might be your tendons sawing away at the tendon sheaths . . . Like a piece of wire sliding through a garden hose.
> Stretch your fingers backwards before & after playing. That loosens the muscles a bit, and takes some of the pressure off.
> If it's extrememly painful - 2 -3 days without playing will improve it.
> If 2 - 3 days of not playing doesn't improve it, you might have done a different kind of damage, like what I did one time.
. . . tendons are 'glued' to bone by ligaments, which are kind of like hard plastic. When you pull a ligament, it rips away from the bone. This can creat a sharp cutting edge, damaging the muscles.
Ligaments take about the same amount of time to heal as a broken bone: 4 - 6 weeks.
The symptoms, incidentally, of Carple Tunnel and, uh, "Guitar-player's Pulled Tendon" are pretty near identical . . . .
> If you messed it up really good (tendon OR ligament), 4 weeks of NO BAR CHORDS can bring you right back to normal, perfect health.
(I don't care what the theory about Carpal Tunnel Syndrom is; experience & reality always trumps theory . . . ."
> The wrist/hand was never 'designed' to squeeze so hard while the wrist is bent. Sitting down for practice will take the unatural pressure off. This alone can make a big difference (although you may not be as 'cool' if you're sitting . . .)
.
In the past, I've gone through this pain, just ignoring it and playing. Then a funny thing happened one day: I couldn't pick up a coffee cup with my left hand.
It scared me; the thought of not being able to play guitar was one of the worst things on earth that I could imagine.
That's when I started playing real careful attention to the pain, and that's how I found out exactly what caused it, (for me, anyway) and exactly what made it go away.
My arm is completely back to normal, now.
When it hurt a lot, I could play for 1/2 hour - hour.
At my worst, I couldn't play more than one song.
Then I came to my senses, took time off, and paid attention to the pain.
Now, I can play extremely fast and extremely difficult songs on my acoustic for up to 4 hours.
After that, the fingertip pain stops me.
If I play for 12 hours in a 3-day period, the wrist starts hurting . . .
.
So, think about it . . .

Spot on guys, proper technique is essential to ones ability not only to progress, but to remain physically playable.

Guitar, ever watch yourself play in a mirror?
Try it, you'll pick up on all kinds of things you don't feel that are wrong...but visually watching it will prove just how wrong it or they are.

Good link here: http://www.musicianshealth.com/stretches.htm

RhythmMan_BluesRockFolk,

Thanks man for the info on the wrist, I will copy down those tips somewhere and try it out. I could sure use it, God knows. See, I type for a living, it is part of my job, so I tend to hurt my hands from that alone, but not quite as bad as on my guitar. I recently bought a squeeze ball for hand therapy, hopefully it strengthens my hands. I want to be able to go fast for long periods of time, plus I want to be able to get my shred speed up. It sucks not to be able to play a piece because I cannot keep up with the speed. I notice my hand does lock up on those barre chords. When I go to play Pearl Jam's Yellow Ledbetter, I feel it. It hurts, plus I tend to have trouble using enough pressure on the strings to get everything to ring properly. So it has been a slight nightmare.

I know how you must have felt when your hand locked up and you could not lift a coffee cup in your left hand. I injured my wrist months back, could barely move it. Drove me out of my mind, I love my guitar. When I cannot play it I get mad. So it is very frustrating. A week ago my middle finger and ring finger both somehow became strained. It destroyed my ability to type fluidly (Since I type very fast it was annoying) and it ruined my ability to finger pick or tap.

I will keep in mind all of what you said, I am going to copy that down on my computer, thanks for the advice man.



Franny,

I do watch myself in the mirror when I play, but not my picking hand. That is a good idea, I will do that sometime today. I will also take a good look at that website link. Thanks Franny.

Peace out guys, GuitarAnatomy.

P.S. Stupid question, how do you write songs off of scales and modes? I know them somewhat, but like, how do you take them and make songs out of them?

Good question.
Chords are for the most part your foundation, modes in the various forms are what's acceptable to use "overtop" or in the case of Bass "underneath" of the chords in question.
Basically modes are the series of notes that fit any chord in question.
I wouldn't try to hard to find a mathematical sequence of proper use...it will take away any creativity you put in.
Their value and use to you comes in by knowing what goes with what...make sense?

If you have made sense of the "Circle of 5th's" and see the why of it...modes are similar to understand.

Well, I know what modes are and I am aware of what the circle of 5th's is. But the problem is I always hear of these lead guitarist talking about using Dorian mode, and pentatonics, and on and on, but I do not know how to use them in a song myself. How do you know what notes to pluck out of it to make a solo out of one. These complexities I think is what compels me to play just from scratch. I usually hear a riff in my head and put it down onto the guitar. Always found it easier than finding a way to examine how scales and modes are to be used.

Guitaranatomy,
you said, ". . . It hurts, plus I tend to have trouble using enough pressure on the strings to get everything to ring properly. . . ."
.
THAT is the key symptom, right there.
Once the strings start buzzing, it's time to stop for the day.
. . write some lyrics, or something . . .

Write some lyrics? Lmao. I am not good at that man. Right now my hands are not too bad. But when they hurt I will stop and do something else, study Biology or some crap.

When I get to the injury stage and have to take a break from playing, here's what I do:
- I write lyrics. you could just put down your thoughts of the day; you might eventually develope a knack for it - or not . . . .
- I set up a drum track for recording. (I still have about 25 original songs I've never recorded)
- I update my network; I''m in personal contact with about 15 - 20 practicing musicians. (I don't count Bandmix; everyone here is too far away from Madison, CT)
- Look for new musicians / singers to work with.
.
. . .

Well I do not know any other musicians, so there is not much for me to do in that case. I do write poetry, but turning it into lyrics is a bit tricky for me. However, there are other things I can do to keep busy from playing I suppose. I need to get back into my studies more so, need to take my GED. I should also just spend time looking for scholarships, taking forever to find ones that are applicable to me. So yes, most of the things that will keep me busy are the typical youthal concerns. Lol.

I will do all that and then scream from insanity.

Guitaranatomy,
I think you know how much I value music, above almost everything else . . .
And, I sense you are / are becoming like that, too.
I suspect you haven't yet hit your 2nd, 3rd, 4th (. . . et al) plateau yet, so time will tell . . .
.
Where you are now, I have been. And I'm going to suggest something which you may not want to do . . .
Get your GED first. Put music on the back burner.
I suspect you have what it takes to become an excellent musician, one day.
But I think it should be the day AFTER you get your GED, my friend . . .
Don't you?

Si. I am in complete agreeance, education before anything. I am very driven toward my education, I just play guitar to keep myself busy. So, GED, then college, and guitar in the spare time.

Well, I know what modes are and I am aware of what the circle of 5th's is. But the problem is I always hear of these lead guitarist talking about using Dorian mode, and pentatonics, and on and on, but I do not know how to use them in a song myself. How do you know what notes to pluck out of it to make a solo out of one. These complexities I think is what compels me to play just from scratch. I usually hear a riff in my head and put it down onto the guitar. Always found it easier than finding a way to examine how scales and modes are to be used.

Ahhh yes...when guitar players talk. As a guitarist you really should have mode "patterns" under your fingertips...thats actually what they're talking about...most shredding guitar parts have to break the rules to get back to the rules (through a back door) so to speak.
I wouldn't stick to using the full verse (or logic) of one mode throughout an entire song...it would turn clinical on you...a mode demonstration instead of a musical passage. Plus you can't beat modial practice for finger dexterity.

There is alot to this but to make simple.

Everything is a variation of the major scale, and thus the major scale in all keys in all positions should be learned.

Basically the modes are nothing more then changing the starting note of the scale and thus the pattern of the scale changes.

Minor, harmonic minor, aug, diminshed and other scales are variations of the major scale by altering a note/notes in the scale depending the particular scale, what note is altered.

For writing songs the most basic template is the 1 4 5 chord progression.

So using C natural C D E F G A B your chord progresion would be C F G.

So you would play those chords and there is a song, in it's most simplistic form. 1 4 5 is the most popular because you will find how from the 5 chord back to one there is a natural resolve or flow. Try it. You'll see.

I see what you are talking about Wegman. I know what the major scale is, and I pretty much know what the modes are. It is all fascinating, but it always did confuse me. I need to learn, as you were saying, all the different patterns and positions of these scales. But I did try that C Natural Progression you gave me. I can take those notes and make them flow into different notes fairly easily, so it is easy to make a song out of that I can see.