General Music Chat

Jeff you say 'us conservatives' like it's a united front. The truth is, conservatives in general and the Republican party in particular have never been so divided. Ron Paul was booed in the SC debate when he spoke about foreign policy. Gingrich has already stated that he will not support Romney; many other conservatives prefer candidates that have no chance (Santorum, Perry, etc). Meanwhile the Independents are getting bigger all the time. I don't see a Ronald Reagan type candidate unifying these groups.

Oh by the way Chris, you don't remember I was the guy who who reached out to you when you were going through a tough time...

I was the guy who remastered "ONE LAST GLANCE" for you . NO BIG DEAL.

Just amazing how quickly people forget. Why don't you go look up you post from sept 09.

ASSHOLE.

Glen, I remember. I don't forget that stuff.

I separate the music stuff from the political stuff on here. I don't judge a person just because of their political views. You guys are great musicians and active members of this board. That's how I see each and every one of you, regardless of political affiliation. If I judged people by political affiliation alone I'd have a much smaller world of people to communicate with.

One of my dad's best friends is a hardcore Republican. My dad is a Democrat. They're still friends even though they have very opposite ideas of politics.

We're all people man. We're all just trying to live life, have fun with time we have here on Earth and enjoy the people we care about.

I don't take it personally that you guys disagree with me politically. I don't call you "asshole". It's unnecessary. And you don't have to call me names either.

We disagree. It's okay. We can keep debating and trying to make the other person see our point of view without resorting to personal attacks or taking words personally.

I happen to think voting for a Republican is a misguided idea for someone like YOU who seems to be on the same page with ME. But hey - I still like you as a person, and if we were to ever meet I'd buy ya a beer

People - don't take this political stuff so personally It's just politics. It's just an idea exchange.

Going to do my best to stay on course with this response. Some of the stuff you brought up here Glen was just irrelevant. I don't mean to ignore your points, but I want to stay focused on a few key things here, not air plains and conspiracy theories.

This is all going to come down to control globally. This is not just about the US.

Agreed.

This is an open door to tyranny. OK. you explain were this new cap and trade money (tax) that was just imposed on flights to Europe is going to help save the planet, huh, You tell me. $35 bucks a ticket. I'll tell you. Some rich hitler is going to collect it and find a whole new way to kill babies and women. If you think it's OK... OK.

I'm not going to argue with you on that one. I don't know the specifics of how the money is going to be spent. But here's the thing: you don't either. You're making a worst-case assumption. Until there's a hard fact, I don't see a point in debating it.

QUOTE, from Chris, We have to find alternative sources of energy that don't rely on finite resources. Even better - energy methods that are clean, renewable, and incredibly productive... I TOTALLY AGREE!

See, we're on the same page

WHY DID OBAMA KILL THIS AMERICAN DREAM? Explain that man, please.... It also explains your next quote.

Glen, Obama didn't kill NASA. I, as much as anyone, wish NASA were a fully funded entity. It deserves it. NASA has done a wealth of good for America and the world.

But please, please I beg of you, go look at the funding history for NASA. The decline started with Bush and the Republicans. They're the ones who have no interest in funding NASA. Just Google it bro.

What the heck is wrong with the bottom line being important. DO YOU GO TO WORK FOR FREE? DO YOU GIG FOR FREE? DO YOU EXPECT SOME ONE TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR EVERY LITTLE PROBLEM?
Thats the problem when people get turned around and they stop accepting their own responsibilities and just want to be told what to DO. MAN THATS not America and all the people that think it will be that easy to take us down are very mistaken. ( that is my global view)

I hate getting into this argument because it's so easy for people to get side-tracked...

What is wrong with the bottom line? Nothing - when you're a business.

But is finding alternative, clean energy sources a business?

Don't side-track this point by trying to equate bottom-line capitalism with working people and wages. It's not the same thing.

There is a very big and real difference between providing a product or service a a business model and RESEARCHING new, as-yet-unknown, clean and renewable energy sources.

Do you understand the difference?

When you're researching something like this, you have to pour billions of dollars into the research not knowing if you're going to get anything out of it. That's why it's RESEARCH. It is NOT a business model!

You want to equate this to work? Then here's an analogy for you:

Imagine for a moment you are your own boss. You make Widget XYZ and it just so happens that Dodge and Toyota buy mass quantities of Widget XYZ from you. Because of this "business" you can pay your bills, own a home, and feed your family.

Now imagine if some group of people NOT affiliated with Dodge or Toyota tells you that you are going to run out of material to make Widget XYZ in 50 years and you need to think about making Widget XYZ out of something else - something that hasn't been invented yet.

Now you, as a businessman, what are you going do? The thing that you need to do to replace the current version of Widget XYZ DOES NOT EXIST YET. You would have to do research and development to figure it out. And you might need all 50 years and every ounce of profit you can squeeze in order to find that alternative solution. Hell, you might need MORE than that. You might need additional funding. You might need more brainpower than what's in your own head, or your own shop. You might need a LOT more help to figure out this as yet unknown alternative...

But hell, you have 50 years before you run out of stuff to make Widget XYZ. And you're a bottom-line business, like all capitalistic businesses, right? So why go to all that effort and expense to find a solution? Why not just make bank and enjoy life?

See the problem?

But then again I'm just another stupid American with very anti socialism views

I don't think you're stupid Glen. Just misguided.

I would love to sit down and jam. After that you would realize all I want is to see, is for you to get better as a player and succeed.

Read my other post. I agree. Music is our bond. Don't take this political stuff too seriously

You sir are a good player, but I beg you to back your rhetorical response with some outward bound thinking. If you read the original post , you would see, we agree on more than you see,,,, or has your own personal hatred of me, blinded you also?

I don't hate you. Start there Glen

I think we have very different opinions of what COULD happen if certain people were elected into office.

But I think we have the same goals. A planet where we have clean, renewable energy, and we're all gainfully employed and free to pursue our freedoms and our passions.

We disagree on the party we think can get us there...

You have it all figured out Jimmy! What you don't understand is that the American public is so sick of the current administrations WASTE that it doesn't matter which Republican candidate gets nominated they are going to kick the snot out of Obamma come November. We don't need a Ronald Reagan! Anyone of the current candidates is MORE qualified than the community organizer that currently holds the office. We are tired of his hatred of the country he was elected to Govern!
All indications coming from the White House today are that Obamma is going to say NO to the Keystone pipeline. Another ENERGY SOURCE that the good ole U.S. will not benefit from. The jobs to build it or the additional resource that might keep the cost of energy down. Gas IS going to be $5.00 a gallon by this June and it WILL be Obamma's fault and the end of his ONE term in the White House!
The problem with liberals is that ya'll believe the world would be better off with more government regulation and bigger government! The reason why this will not work is because government is too inefficient and wasteful. Trust me I see the waste FIRSTHAND and it would BOOGLE YOUR MIND!

A platform of "Anyone But Obama" is not really a platform. I like a lot of Dr. Paul's ideas but he doesn't have a chance to catch Romney, who has a huge war chest. There is no one else that has a chance. Please don't tell me that if Romney wins SC he won't be the Rep candidate; it's too late for any last minute dark horses. Many conservatives see Romney as a moderate conservative, a corporate raider and a member of a non-mainstream religion and may not support him, choosing not to vote in protest. All figured out? Maybe not completely but this ain't my first rodeo.

I like Ron Paul. He is my Representative. I do NOT like his Foreign policy. Beleive me when I tell you NO ONE will stay home and not vote in protest in November. That is what liberals want us to beleive but it's not going to happen NICE TRY THOUGH! There is too much at stake. All conservatives know this! There will be a solidarity amougnst us Conservatives the likes of which has not been seen in some time! You will see!

I like Ron Paul. He is my Representative. I do NOT like his Foreign policy. Beleive me when I tell you NO ONE will stay home and not vote in protest in November. That is what liberals want us to beleive but it's not going to happen NICE TRY THOUGH! There is too much at stake. All conservatives know this! There will be a solidarity amougnst us Conservatives the likes of which has not been seen in some time! You will see!

And if your Republican nominee gets elected, you will personally be poorer, with fewer job opportunities, higher taxes, more debt, less regulations to safeguard you from corporate raiders, and you will have less access to affordable health care.

I can understand why the financially elite would vote Republican. What I can't understand is why an everyman such as yourself would. You're hurting yourself by doing so.

Just doing some research on Keystone, the crude it would carry is sand oil, very dirty oil that requires significant energy and cost to process. Several states are concerned since the pipeline would cross natural aquifers that could be compromised if the pipeline fails. Finally, there's a good chance the oil would be sold to Europe and other markets at a higher price and Americans would not see one penny in savings. Obama wanted to wait until 2013 to study the proposal properly but was forced to make a decision by the Reps. The White House is getting ready to turn down the proposal.

I like Ron Paul. He is my Representative. I do NOT like his Foreign policy. Beleive me when I tell you NO ONE will stay home and not vote in protest in November. That is what liberals want us to beleive but it's not going to happen NICE TRY THOUGH! There is too much at stake. All conservatives know this! There will be a solidarity amougnst us Conservatives the likes of which has not been seen in some time! You will see!

And if your Republican nominee gets elected, you will personally be poorer, with fewer job opportunities, higher taxes, more debt, less regulations to safeguard you from corporate raiders, and you will have less access to affordable health care.

I can understand why the financially elite would vote Republican. What I can't understand is why an everyman such as yourself would. You're hurting yourself by doing so.

Chris you really need to study your own words because they apply to your candidate! I used to believe as you do many years ago. It is typical of a whippersnapper (with all due respect) like yourself to believe what the liberal media tells you.
Your guy is a Democrat whom believes that bigger government and higher taxes to support that government with over reaching government regulation is the answer to all our woe's!
My guy Republican is for smaller goverment and lower taxes with less regulation is the answer.
Having said that I don't believe any one party has all of the answers. My party is for ME keeping MORE of my money to spend or save the way I see best for me. Your guy thinks he knows what is best for you!
Case and point the economy is BOOMING here in Texas because we are a right to work state with less over reaching government regulation and that is why big businesses that ARE NOT leaving the country can't get here fast enough! In spite of the current administrations best efforts. He can't KILL the economy here! Let me tell YOU there are a lot of folks down here that HATE that man with a passion (because of his hatred of us) Lets just say he hasn't done Texas ANY favors!

Just doing some research on Keystone, the crude it would carry is sand oil, very dirty oil that requires significant energy and cost to process. Several states are concerned since the pipeline would cross natural aquifers that could be compromised if the pipeline fails. Finally, there's a good chance the oil would be sold to Europe and other markets at a higher price and Americans would not see one penny in savings. Obama wanted to wait until 2013 to study the proposal properly but was forced to make a decision by the Reps. The White House is getting ready to turn down the proposal.

Jimmy, the President had 3 YEARS to research this! That is how important he believes oil independence is to YOU & ME! The Keystone pipeline had a minimum of 20,000 shovel ready jobs and he kicked it aside because he needed to solidify support from his greenie weenie supporters for the upcoming election! Don't pretend to be an expert on oil!
I come from an oil state have worked in the biz and have 2 sons in the biz. ALL oil takes energy to refine! That oil would have come to Texas where the refineries are currently operating under capacity. That oil would have helped increase the supply on the market thus decreasing speculation on future deliveries and lowering the cost of gas at the pump. Obamma WANTS high priced gas so he can make green energy more competitive all the while throwing the American economy and YOU & ME under the bus! ALL FOR HIS OWN POLITICAL GAIN!
WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP AND TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!

Come on Jeff, you didn't even mention that Nebraska had the biggest concern regarding the pipeline crossing major aquifers. They're currently studying how they could reroute it but this takes time. Or do you believe the feds should have the power to ignore a state's concerns? I never claimed to be an expert but I can read.

A lot of good points, just a shame that it gets so angry and heated.

It's almost too painful to read. This is why I hate politics, it makes bitter enemies out of otherwise reasonable people.

My elderly mother is like this, she screams at the TV as if they can hear her and it's always the same things. POLITICS and RELIGION ..(puke)

I always tell her that if she could hear herself, she'd stop.
She just starts throwing dishes after that.. lol

(Do not throw the dishes when you write your replies, to lose control is to be viewed as a scenario where one has already conceded defeat.)

Why not Jimmy they are ignoring the border states concerns regarding illegal immigration?
This pipeline is above ground not over the ocean! Like I said Obamma had 3 years to address this concern. If he had we would have had to time address Nebraska's concerns. Republicans just got sick of him ignoring the project! After all he does want to create jobs RIGHT? I'll not comment on this topic anymore after this go round. I'll leave it up to you good folks to have the last word!

A lot of good points, just a shame that it gets so angry and heated.

It's almost too painful to read. This is why I hate politics, it makes bitter enemies out of otherwise reasonable people.

My elderly mother is like this, she screams at the TV as if they can hear her and it's always the same things. POLITICS and RELIGION ..(puke)

I always tell her that if she could hear herself, she'd stop.
She just starts throwing dishes after that.. lol

(Do not throw the dishes when you write your replies, to lose control is to be viewed as a scenario where one has already conceded defeat.)

Scott, I am not mad at any of these good people that have been debating this issue. I like Jimmy and the other folks on here! There is nothing personal it is simply a debate of points of veiw. I hope I haven't made other folks mad that is not my intention! I can only read these threads so many times before I have to comment or my head will explode. Now ya'll don't want that on your hands do you? Imagine the mullet blown all over the walls with a few brains mixed in here and there!

Scott, I don't think anyone is angry, we're having a discussion which is necessary in a free country. We have different views and perspectives but that's good, that's the way democracy works.

Jeff I don't want the last word, but if you insist: the pipeline will cross aquifers, which are underground reservoirs of water that are used for drinking, etc. The fear is that if the pipeline were damaged due to a natural disaster or terrorism these waters could become polluted. The White House has merely denied this permit but encourages them to file another one next year. The project is not dead but delayed.