General Music Chat

I have had such a sheltered life, at 49 I discovered Korn, at 50 I found Metalica, I'm hoping for something even better at 51. I think the digital / cd age has enhanced music so much.

I don't think rock is dead, just the passion that leads to great rock and roll.

Dig deeper, try these:

King Crimson
David Bowie
The Stooges
Joy Division
The Zombies
Melvins
Wiseblood
Bauhaus
The Cure
Rasputina
Death (The Detroit band, not the death metal band.)
My Bloody Valentine (Not to be confused with the generic metal band, Bullet For my Valentine.)
Celtic Frost (Since you already like some Thrash Metal.)
Megadeth ( An ex Metallica member's band, much better than Metallica.)
Black Sabbath
Ozzy Osbourne's solo stuff
Big Black
A Place To Bury Strangers
The Flaming Lips
Satyricon
Kylesa
Baroness
Giant Squid
Fudge Tunnel
Blacktusk
Witch
Alice in Chains
Jane's Addiction
The Cranberries
Smashing Pumpkins
Marilyn Manson


You're welcome, bro.

Oh heck ya, the great Fudge Tunnel! One of my faves. Criminally Underrated! Creep Diets is a classic!

I know I always talk about this band, but they took sci-fi to another level. So I present, the best band in the world, yeah, the galaxy even:

VOIVOD

I'm tired of seeing bands with Guitar, bass, drums, vocals, and maybe a keyboardist.
I don't think you see those instruments in a band because of some formula to music. I think that live music has evolved bands with those instruments because they can cover all of the parts.

You go be the first to put together an all original band of single note instruments, how many would you have to have?

Good wah pedal or Keyboardist, I don't need a Harmonica or Saxaphonist in a band to do those parts. Meanwhile the band with the Harp player has Harp parts crammed where they don't belong because they have a Harp player.

2 guitars and a drummer... sucks.
2 Drummers and a Guitarist sucks.
1 Guitar, 1 Bass, and of course that crazy guy with all of those drums... you can do just about anything.

Of course you should feel free to put together a spoon band and try to book it, if that's what inspires you. This is Capitalism... if you can sell it, you can have it.

I'm tired of seeing bands with Guitar, bass, drums, vocals, and maybe a keyboardist.
I don't think you see those instruments in a band because of some formula to music. I think that live music has evolved bands with those instruments because they can cover all of the parts.

You go be the first to put together an all original band of single note instruments, how many would you have to have?

Good wah pedal or Keyboardist, I don't need a Harmonica or Saxaphonist in a band to do those parts. Meanwhile the band with the Harp player has Harp parts crammed where they don't belong because they have a Harp player.

2 guitars and a drummer... sucks.
2 Drummers and a Guitarist sucks.
1 Guitar, 1 Bass, and of course that crazy guy with all of those drums... you can do just about anything.

Of course you should feel free to put together a spoon band and try to book it, if that's what inspires you. This is Capitalism... if you can sell it, you can have it.

Now that's just bullshit, dude. You can make good music with anything that makes sound, so long as the band plays together well.

Einsturzende Neubauten make music using trash, synthesizers, and a bass guitar.

Kraftwerk used only synthesizers

Rasputina play only cellos and drums.

Apocalyptica make metal with only cellos and drums

The Dresden Dolls play Piano and drums

James Thirlwell made Big Band and Jazz inspired Industrial music with cut up tapes before sampling/MIDI technology was streamlined.

Anybody who thinks that there's only a few ways to make music are worth nothing as a musician.

sh*t, you don't even need to play a traditional instrument to make music anymore! I cut up samples, arrange them in a creative way, modify them, degrade them, loop them, stretch them, and make ambient music. I didn't need any lead instruments, I didn't need a drumkit, I just needed sounds.

Music is the art of communicating ideas and emotions through sound. You do not need a guitar, bass, or drums to evoke emotions in someone with music regardless of the genre. It is a tired out trend that needs to die already.

Sure, that's YOU... not a band... and you're CONSTRUCTING something you will not be able to perform.

BAND is the word there... get you a band of spoon clickers together and make some music is my point. How many tunes can you cover? How many originals until it all sounds the same.

Sure, I can puke into a recorder and call it music, I can record traffic and edit it into something that sounds interesting. Have you heard the "Jingle Bells" they do every year with the dogs barking?

But BANDS have to be something more versatile... otherwise they are Tiny Tim, a one hit Wonder that doesn't translate to the next generation.

Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd and other "artists" have tried to incorporate all kinds of "things" into modern music, and with each step they grew farther from the general consumption audience and into a "niche", and thus removed from relevance.

Einsturzende Neubauten make music using trash, synthesizers, and a bass guitar.

Kraftwerk used only synthesizers

Rasputina play only cellos and drums.

Apocalyptica make metal with only cellos and drums

The Dresden Dolls play Piano and drums

James Thirlwell made Big Band and Jazz inspired Industrial music with cut up tapes before sampling/MIDI technology was streamlined.

Wow, you noted several exceptions to the rule. Lets compare how many people the "Art" made by these exceptions touched, vs... I don't know, how about CCR? Creedence was a BAND... they performed the material they wrote at the drop of a hat, acoustically, electrically for large and small audiences, A Capella... people have come along since and "rehashed" that same music, or tones, or look, but they were not CCR.

Folks come along later and do CCR with Fuzzboxes and Floyd Roses, and pick hand tapping... They add organ solos or do a High School Jazz band tribute to CCR.

The stuff your talking about took elaborate production to pull off, massive musicianship to comprehend... and is not all capable of being performed live by the musicians who created it.

Lets see them write a "Tush" or a "Purple Haze" that inspires A MILLION ARTISTS!

That's ART... the perfection of what can be done with a Guitarist over Bass and Drums. Primed and ready for not only general consumption to shake Rumps in every hick town... but also not requiring a degree in arts and a degree in electronics to reproduce.

I'm all for "experimentation"... I like Classical String quartets... and I like Classic Rock. I built the kinda band I like the best, perhaps those other folks that are "doing it to death" are also choosing what inspires them.

Sure, that's YOU... not a band... and you're CONSTRUCTING something you will not be able to perform.

BAND is the word there... get you a band of spoon clickers together and make some music is my point. How many tunes can you cover? How many originals until it all sounds the same.

Sure, I can puke into a recorder and call it music, I can record traffic and edit it into something that sounds interesting. Have you heard the "Jingle Bells" they do every year with the dogs barking?

But BANDS have to be something more versatile... otherwise they are Tiny Tim, a one hit Wonder that doesn't translate to the next generation.

Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd and other "artists" have tried to incorporate all kinds of "things" into modern music, and with each step they grew farther from the general consumption audience and into a "niche", and thus removed from relevance.

Einsturzende Neubauten make music using trash, synthesizers, and a bass guitar.

Kraftwerk used only synthesizers

Rasputina play only cellos and drums.

Apocalyptica make metal with only cellos and drums

The Dresden Dolls play Piano and drums

James Thirlwell made Big Band and Jazz inspired Industrial music with cut up tapes before sampling/MIDI technology was streamlined.

Wow, you noted several exceptions to the rule. Lets compare how many people the "Art" made by these exceptions touched, vs... I don't know, how about CCR? Creedence was a BAND... they performed the material they wrote at the drop of a hat, acoustically, electrically for large and small audiences, A Capella... people have come along since and "rehashed" that same music, or tones, or look, but they were not CCR.

Folks come along later and do CCR with Fuzzboxes and Floyd Roses, and pick hand tapping... They add organ solos or do a High School Jazz band tribute to CCR.

The stuff your talking about took elaborate production to pull off, massive musicianship to comprehend... and is not all capable of being performed live by the musicians who created it.

Lets see them write a "Tush" or a "Purple Haze" that inspires A MILLION ARTISTS!

That's ART... the perfection of what can be done with a Guitarist over Bass and Drums. Primed and ready for not only general consumption to shake Rumps in every hick town... but also not requiring a degree in arts and a degree in electronics to reproduce.

I'm all for "experimentation"... I like Classical String quartets... and I like Classic Rock. I built the kinda band I like the best, perhaps those other folks that are "doing it to death" are also choosing what inspires them.

AHAHAHA OH MY f**k GOD YOU ARE HILARIOUSLY IGNORANT.

I could perform all of the music I'm making live pretty damn easily. All I have to do is transfer all the samples on to a hardware sampler, assign each sample to different keys on a MIDI controller, and trigger them at the appropriate time. Playing synths, sampler, and drum machine is no more of an obstacle than a normal rock band in a live setting.

All of the bands I listed have f**k awesome live shows, except for Jame's Thirlwell's Foetus shows which were at first playback.

Einsturzende Neuabauten: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BQcLBcZgm0

SPK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhGeOUnCE0

Rasputina: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGCbXgcLsmk

Dresden Dolls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQoVCA9GTI

Throbbing Gristle:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLvQKmsUCQ (They used guitars, but it was mainly for feedback. They never really played their instruments so much as they destroyed them.)

Test Dept. (Made percussive music using scrap metal, often thought to be inspired by african tribal music, and thus dubbed Tribal Industrial) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WprhZyBAU4


I could give a f**k less about popularity or mainstream appeal. Your view of what music should be is quite narrow, and I could only imagine how boring any of your output as a musician would be. Popular music history is dominated by arena rock bands and pop punk. Pink Floyd was hardly revolutionary despite the fact that they introduced some avant garde aspects to their music. People have been using found sounds, ethereal noises, and whatnot since Dada arose and inspired Musique Concrete (Which was a genre of music where composers would cut up tape loops of real world sounds and arrange it into music.). Even a band like Radiohead, whom are lauded with praise for being so different are just copying things done decades before the dawn of rock music that rock bastardized and made accessible. (Not that popularity is a bad thing, but you people go around talking about how genius they are for using sampling technology with modern rock when it's really not that new or experimental.)

Bottom line, if you think popularity counts for anything, you shouldn't be a musician. Music is not about playing large arenas, it is not about being signed to a major record label, and it is certainly not about having the most money.

There are entire genres of music that do not use guitars, drums, or bass in their setup, and the bands in those genres that do usually do not play them conventionally. Now, they are niche genres, but that has little to do with the fact that they don't follow the rules per se. Rock music is only dominant because of how it is marketed. I can guarantee if bands like test department or Big Black had been on TV frequently, they would be popular. Do you know why? Because people tend to listen to bands to fit in with their peers, especially teenagers (Who, not surprisingly rock music appeals to.).

EDIT: I forgot to mention, bands like Einsturzende Neuabauten and Throbbing Gristle sell out at whatever venues they play.

Cretindilettante - thanks for the band tips, I have heard some of these. Being a drummer, I am particularly into precusion, I love the sound of strong drums, heavy bass, acompanied by solid rythem and lead guitar, when mixed properly - out of this world.

I could give a f**k less about popularity or mainstream appeal. Your view of what music should be is quite narrow, and I could only imagine how boring any of your output as a musician would be.
Ok, so you don't give a damn about being popular or successful, so what are you bitching about? My view of what music should be is from the Consumer end of it... not the self centered, egotistical musician side of things. Music is what People enjoy... not what musicians enjoy. Now it actually turns out, since most musicians are people... the stuff I like, and what the crowd likes is similar.

But then as a Musician I like some of Rush, or Zepplin's "off the wall" stuff that isn't appropriate to play at a live show. I enjoy the occasional "Guitar Solo" ala Eruption or Battle Axe, but I don't put that stuff in a live show. People come to hear music, not the guitar player showing all of his tricks in 3.5 minutes.

You can play all of that junk and noise without other musicians, why aren't you out there doing it instead of in here trying to convince us we're all half wits because we are non inventive bands playing Guitar, bass and drums?

Maybe its because you can't sell that crap. The market for non musical crap is loaded... hell the market for Musical CRAP is overloaded... but for the stuff your clucking about, there is a very limited market, and you want other folks to join you in being non popular?

Why don't you form a Throbbing Gristle Tribute band? Can that stuff be "covered"? CCR, ZZ Top, Dylan, Zepplin, ect, could all be covered by the Lawrence Welk band... could be replayed by people on non similar instruments because its actually musical. Y'know, that pesky 12 semitone thing that REAL musicians pay attention to and abide by?

If that is truly music, then why aren't more MUSICIANS Playing it? I'll tell you why, because that is SEQUENCING, its PROGRAMMING, its COMPOSITION... y'know, like taking GARBAGE and making ART out of it. Maybe you can call it art... but its not music.

Bottom line, if you think popularity counts for anything, you shouldn't be a musician. Music is not about playing large arenas, it is not about being signed to a major record label, and it is certainly not about having the most money.

Ahh, the old sellout routine, your right, I should toss my guitar and amp into the next dumpster I find and start beating on cars as a performance art.

How about you can play any kind of crap you want to, unless you can get an AUDIENCE to stand still and enjoy it you are just making noise. You can even make noise with Bass, Guitar and Drums, but of course we have the artists you pointed out... that, Gee.... they're seeking an audience, well they must be sell outs. Trying to be popular... what were they thinking?

There are entire genres of music that do not use guitars, drums, or bass in their setup,
Yes, and there are birds that don't fly too... your point? I don't think you have one. You want to act like some sort of snob that's above "real" music made with bona fide instruments... but in the end, you're here trying to find musicians to agree with you.

I forgot to mention, bands like Einsturzende Neuabauten and Throbbing Gristle sell out at whatever venues they play.
But dude... popularity sucks, why would they want a crowd to appreciate what they do? Its Art... they should walk off the stage in protest because people showed up. Did they also accept a recording contract... did they make money? Those pathetic fools, what were they thinking... now they too are just sell outs.

Meh, the Blue Man Group does some interesting things... they sell out auditoriums... and they play really big drums!

I have had such a sheltered life, at 49 I discovered Korn, at 50 I found Metalica, I'm hoping for something even better at 51. I think the digital / cd age has enhanced music so much.

I don't think rock is dead, just the passion that leads to great rock and roll.

Dig deeper, try these:

King Crimson
David Bowie
The Stooges
Joy Division
The Zombies
Melvins
Wiseblood
Bauhaus
The Cure
Rasputina
Death (The Detroit band, not the death metal band.)
My Bloody Valentine (Not to be confused with the generic metal band, Bullet For my Valentine.)
Celtic Frost (Since you already like some Thrash Metal.)
Megadeth ( An ex Metallica member's band, much better than Metallica.)
Black Sabbath
Ozzy Osbourne's solo stuff
Big Black
A Place To Bury Strangers
The Flaming Lips
Satyricon
Kylesa
Baroness
Giant Squid
Fudge Tunnel
Blacktusk
Witch
Alice in Chains
Jane's Addiction
The Cranberries
Smashing Pumpkins
Marilyn Manson


You're welcome, bro.

All of these groups use bass/drums/guitar as the foundation for the music. Where they differentiate is the other instruments and voices they put on top. Guitar, bass and drums has become THE foundation for all popular music in the past sixty years because of the versatality and efficiency aspect; nearly any kind of music can be performed by three experienced, crafty musicians. Of course there's a place in the world for glass rubbing, spoon playing, trash can stomping groups. But for modern music you cannot beat guitar, bass and drums. When I saw Devo they played all electronic instruments for the first 90 minutes of the show. At the end, "real" instruments rose out the stage and they proceeded to rock out! The bottom line, it's not the instruments that matter, it's the musicians.

Whatever happened to the accordian?

I'm really hoping that it isn't. I'm meeting tons of people playing tons of styles of late and surprisingly the feeling, this one that is. Is far deeper than you might at first imagine. There are also some fabulous bands out there playing away at their own stuff too.

Doesn't look to glum at all from where I am standing so far anyway....

Barking dogs jingle bells !!

Now I have to get the coffee off my screen.


Thanks a lot Dewy.

I agree with you Danger, thats what so great about korn, although the lirics are a little over the top with the gratuitus @#)!)#$*, their use of other instruments like bagpipes rocks. I know their just bangers, but the vocals are solid and they get an A+ from me for versitility. but it all comes back to the basic - guitar, bass, drums (Keyboard????) these instruments are so versital in sound and the way they can be used and I think thats why they are the staple of all great rock.

I have had such a sheltered life, at 49 I discovered Korn, at 50 I found Metalica, I'm hoping for something even better at 51. I think the digital / cd age has enhanced music so much.

I don't think rock is dead, just the passion that leads to great rock and roll.

Dig deeper, try these:

King Crimson
David Bowie
The Stooges
Joy Division
The Zombies
Melvins
Wiseblood
Bauhaus
The Cure
Rasputina
Death (The Detroit band, not the death metal band.)
My Bloody Valentine (Not to be confused with the generic metal band, Bullet For my Valentine.)
Celtic Frost (Since you already like some Thrash Metal.)
Megadeth ( An ex Metallica member's band, much better than Metallica.)
Black Sabbath
Ozzy Osbourne's solo stuff
Big Black
A Place To Bury Strangers
The Flaming Lips
Satyricon
Kylesa
Baroness
Giant Squid
Fudge Tunnel
Blacktusk
Witch
Alice in Chains
Jane's Addiction
The Cranberries
Smashing Pumpkins
Marilyn Manson


You're welcome, bro.

All of these groups use bass/drums/guitar as the foundation for the music. Where they differentiate is the other instruments and voices they put on top. Guitar, bass and drums has become THE foundation for all popular music in the past sixty years because of the versatality and efficiency aspect; nearly any kind of music can be performed by three experienced, crafty musicians. Of course there's a place in the world for glass rubbing, spoon playing, trash can stomping groups. But for modern music you cannot beat guitar, bass and drums. When I saw Devo they played all electronic instruments for the first 90 minutes of the show. At the end, "real" instruments rose out the stage and they proceeded to rock out! The bottom line, it's not the instruments that matter, it's the musicians.[/url][/list]

I'm tired of seeing bands with Guitar, bass, drums, vocals, and maybe a keyboardist.
I don't think you see those instruments in a band because of some formula to music. I think that live music has evolved bands with those instruments because they can cover all of the parts.

You go be the first to put together an all original band of single note instruments, how many would you have to have?

Good wah pedal or Keyboardist, I don't need a Harmonica or Saxaphonist in a band to do those parts. Meanwhile the band with the Harp player has Harp parts crammed where they don't belong because they have a Harp player.

2 guitars and a drummer... sucks.
2 Drummers and a Guitarist sucks.
1 Guitar, 1 Bass, and of course that crazy guy with all of those drums... you can do just about anything.

Of course you should feel free to put together a spoon band and try to book it, if that's what inspires you. This is Capitalism... if you can sell it, you can have it.

Now that's just bullshit, dude. You can make good music with anything that makes sound, so long as the band plays together well.

Einsturzende Neubauten make music using trash, synthesizers, and a bass guitar.

Kraftwerk used only synthesizers

Rasputina play only cellos and drums.

Apocalyptica make metal with only cellos and drums

The Dresden Dolls play Piano and drums

James Thirlwell made Big Band and Jazz inspired Industrial music with cut up tapes before sampling/MIDI technology was streamlined.

Anybody who thinks that there's only a few ways to make music are worth nothing as a musician.

sh*t, you don't even need to play a traditional instrument to make music anymore! I cut up samples, arrange them in a creative way, modify them, degrade them, loop them, stretch them, and make ambient music. I didn't need any lead instruments, I didn't need a drumkit, I just needed sounds.

Music is the art of communicating ideas and emotions through sound. You do not need a guitar, bass, or drums to evoke emotions in someone with music regardless of the genre. It is a tired out trend that needs to die already.

I can appreciate your view on the way music is going,especially being located where i am,the southern rock capitol of the world,"if ya dont play lynyard skynard you cant play",attitude is killin me.
But being a guitar player,I must point out that actually learning an instrument is a little more challenging than learning how to sample,or otherwise cash in on others time put into learning.
There are some bands out there,however in other countries,that are adding more instrumentation to their music ,like this one here,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iijKLHCQw5o
Give them a listen,they use guitars,hurdy gurdies,violyns,etc.very well orchistrated and well put together music.
very hard rockin music I might add.
I've put 25+ years into learning how to play guitar,music theory,classical forms,etc.and it kinda erks me that samplers just try to cash in on that time without actually learning the ropes of how to play the instruments they are sampleing,it almost takes the appreciation away from the origional musician,like giving the attitude "anyone can do that,But can you do this"?,
I'm currently struggling with trying to do more symphonic metal music here in my location, and geting other musicians to colaborate with is like pulling teeth.So i understand the emotion behind your post.But respectfuly disagree with the fact that music is just envoking an emotional responce and the avenue inwhich we should do that should be open!

.("sh*t, you don't even need to play a traditional instrument to make music anymore

I'd be interested in hearing some of your stuff tho,I've posted some of my origional stuff in my profile here on band mix,aswell as added a link to Jango where some others can be heard.just to let ya know I can actually play music.