General Music Chat

You'd carry a lot more weight in this argument if you weren't being a hypocrite.

You want to speak of "generalities" of the Muslim religion, but you don't want to admit the generalities of your own religion. That's hypocritical any way you slice it.

You are sooooo right bro!

I must have been dreaming when I told you that 90% of the adherents of MY OWN religion, DO NOT PRACTICE it correctly, because they practice RITUALS more than they practice LOVE.

Thanks for putting me straight!

Maybe if I had said 95% that would have qualified?

It's like this...

You are FIGHTING God dude.

Fighting God makes people STUPID!

It's that simple.

The Bible even suggests this, and all you do is PROVE IT!!

You can't hold a consistently logical conversation with me, when it is about God or Religion. Your spiritual opposition to God is BLINDING you, and it is affecting your ability to REASON properly.

Look at the ridiculous and unfounded assertions you make?

You literally MAKE STUFF UP, that I DO NOT SAY and DO NOT BELIEVE.

When I point them out, it means nothing to you.

You just hold the same position and move on to the next subject.

Kind of like Flat-Earthers, who have an IRRATIONAL belief, yet INSIST on maintaining it.

How can I argue with that?

I can't.

If you want to believe the Earth is flat, I cannot FORCE you, no matter the evidence presented, to believe otherwise.

.

Yet you seem to continually ignore the violence perpetrated by the j/c's (judeo/christians) from the very beginning of thier own religions, Craig.

The Christian religion was FREE FROM VIOLENCE until it became the STATE RELIGION OF ROME!

Go look up when that happened.

Jesus lived and died and the religion of Christianity was born around 3BC, approximately 2,013 years ago. Now go find when Rome adopted Christianity as the state religion, and subtract that date from 2,013 and see what you get.

That is how many HUNDREDS of years, Christianity spread and prospered throughout the world FREE FROM VIOLENCE. And despite all the violence perpetrated against it!

I know you don't really care about facts, where your OPINIONS are concerned, so I doubt you will spend the time to look it up.

But still...

Tell me again how Christianity, like Islam was BEGUN and SPREAD through violence from it's ORIGIN.

You can't.


There is a HUGE difference between GETTING OFF TRACK after HUNDREDS OF YEARS, and STARTING OFF TRACK and STAYING OFF TRACK.

Christianity, long ago returned to it's non-violent roots.

Muslims cannot return to their non-violent roots, because they do not HAVE non-violent roots.

They will have to EVOLVE into a non-violent religion. This has been occuring SLOWLY as Muslims have become more educated (The Middle East is among the most illiterate places in the world). But principles of NON-VIOLENCE are NOT the beliefs held by a majority of imams, so it only has limited power among Muslims so far.

International Violence. (terrorism, wars of expansion)
Domestic Violence. (torture and murder of women and children)
Politically justified Violence. (murder of artists, authors, homosexuals)

It is a VERY VIOLENT RELIGION!

Not hundreds of years ago.

TODAY!

RIGHT NOW!

.

To my Knowledge and you could correct me if I am wrong so long as you provide consumable sources. (Not websites), They can alter in a heartbeat and do. There has NEVER been a religion that resided on Earth that was not been violent in some form, manner.

I have no quarrel with you at all Craig but what are you trying to accomplish man? I think given world situations its easy to point at something and say "It's coming!" Perhaps it will, who knows? What comes? When, do we get a badge for it or is there a club meet every Sunday when there is a rest?

Simple needs is all me is. Simple as, simple does, not simple? Me ignores because pathways a dim and there is little in the way of light to guide and even when I get there something yet more will be hidden.

Great voice. Just wish you were in a band singing somewhere, posting Pics/Videos 'n' stuff.

No Quarrel yeah Craig? Not attacking, asking.

Best.

Chipfryer.

Not violent, Craig? Then why did Constantine have so many problems with the fledgeling christians that he had to intervene to assure the peace of his realm?

Look again at the facts, man. The religion was split into factions from its very inception, with the different sects violently arguing amongst themselves until they were forcibly brought together by Constantine. Even the original disciples fought between themselves, & couldn't agree on "absolute truths." But YOU have it all figured out, haven't you?

You speak of christianity as if it were completely seperate from judaism. Sorry, but you're wrong to do so, Craig. The god is the same god. That IS its "roots," in the violence & betrayals of Moses & David, in the wars they began to better thier lives at the expense of others, in the stonings & the homosexuals being killed in the name of god. Therefore, christianity's roots are not so nonviolent. But you want to ignore those inconvenient truths.

God may be "love" in your mind. He is much more in mine. Esp the j/c/m god. (That's judeo/christian/moslem god, since they are ALL derived from Abraham.) Look at the love he poured upon Abraham, or Sodom & Gommorah, or Job, etc. The Abrahamic religions (since you find "j/c's" so offensive) have historically all been the most invasive, the most personally demanding, the most political, & the most violent of ALL the religions I can think of, save the nazis, confussionists, & the socialists. I honestly can't find it in my heart to seperate them, cuz one's as bad as the next in terms of atrocities perpetrated in the name of Yaweh.

Besides, what your pushing is not even "christianity," since you don't use the bible (except to back up your own "absolute truths"), but instead go with your very own thoughts & visions & such. You cannot seperate the Old & New Testaments & just toss out the Old, Craig. It's as much as part of the christian religion as the New, quite frankly, or we wouldn't be so caught up in the 10 Commandments, or the homophobic force pushing its way throughout the religion. While YOU may say that isn't part of the faith, Craig, there are millions who will disagree, & you are NOT a good example of the faith, for the reason I just told you.

You evidently want to start up your very own religion, loosely based upon christianity, but it is NOT christianity, Craig. Of that, I am sure.

Tell me again how Christianity, like Islam was BEGUN and SPREAD through violence from it's ORIGIN.

You can't.


There is a HUGE difference between GETTING OFF TRACK after HUNDREDS OF YEARS, and STARTING OFF TRACK and STAYING OFF TRACK.

There's a huge difference to YOU.

There's no difference to ME.

And that's the difference between you and me.


I'm not interested in an "ideal" when that ideal isn't PRACTICED by its people. If only 5% practice the "ideal" then the ideal is USELESS.

You can't hold a consistently logical conversation with me, when it is about God or Religion. Your spiritual opposition to God is BLINDING you, and it is affecting your ability to REASON properly.

Right back at-ya.

See how brilliantly that sentence you wrote works for both sides? haha...

Look at the ridiculous and unfounded assertions you make?

Like what?

You literally MAKE STUFF UP, that I DO NOT SAY and DO NOT BELIEVE.

Are you a Christian, or aren't you? Maybe it would be better for you to found your own religion?

When I point them out, it means nothing to you.

You just hold the same position and move on to the next subject.

I'm just telling you how it IS. And you're telling me how it SHOULD BE.

I'm not interested in how it should be. You've been pretty clear about what YOU think Christianity SHOULD BE about. But that's just not close to REALITY.

Deal with reality dude.

Kind of like Flat-Earthers, who have an IRRATIONAL belief, yet INSIST on maintaining it.

How can I argue with that?

I can't.

HA! Now you know what it's like for a guy like me (or Phil) when we have to deal with people like you. You are a believer in the flat Earth. Nothing I can do will change your mind because your CERTAIN there is a God...

I'm not trying to change your mind about God, BTW. I'm trying to open up your eyes to your chosen religion's own hypocrisy. I just want to see you evolve, to the point where you either (a) don't spend your time attacking other religions or (b) when you do attack other religions, you include your own.

Anything else is hypocritical.

I just want to see you evolve, to the point where you either (a) don't spend your time attacking other religions or (b) when you do attack other religions, you include your own.

Anything else is hypocritical.

Again, this statement of yours makes no sense.

The longest and most heated arguments about religion I have had on here, is with OTHER FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST.

Facts are facts.

I spend far more time criticizing MY RELIGION, than any other, because I am part of it... and it is THE HIGHEST UNDERSTANDING of God among the world's major religions. That is opinion, of course, but it -IS- what I believe, and therefore I KNOW IN MY HEART that it holds the key to "HEALING THE NATIONS" and I am encouraging Christians to embrace the LOVE of Christ (God) over the RITUALS OF MEN! And to embrace that destiny FOR THE WORLD'S SAKE!

John 15:5 (NIV)
“I (Jesus) am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”

Revelation 22:1-2 (NIV)
1) Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2) down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.


I explained to you, that GOD is the SOURCE OF LOVE.

Jesus was the manifestation of GOD IN THE FLESH!

He said... "APART FROM ME, YOU CAN DO NOTHING!"

Because... JESUS -IS- THE TREE OF LIFE! And leaves and branches are only supplied nutrients (love) when they are ROOTED in the TREE!

The LEAVES or branches (Christians - and True Believers in God) are for the HEALING OF THE NATIONS!

It is NOT coincidence, that the Bible -BEGINS- with the "Tree of Life" (Genesis) whose way is BLOCKED, and then -ENDS- with the Tree of Life (Revelation) UNBLOCKED and BEARING MUCH FRUIT - God's love taking root in the hearts of mankind EVERYWHERE!

There is only one other mention of the "Tree of Life" in the ENTIRE BIBLE!!!

Even though this TREE is apparently VERY IMPORTANT, is the PATH TO LIFE, and was BLOCKED, effectively from the very beginning!

MANKIND IS A FAMILY!!!

Christians/Muslims/Republicans/Democrats.... EVERYONE!

God CARES ABOUT HIS FAMILY, and for MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS, he has been RESTORING IT!

Peace and love -IS- The world's DESTINY!

And Christians -SHOULD- be at the forefront of that effort, and some are, but MANY... MOST... have become MISGUIDED!

But if their hearts are TRULY ROOTED in Jesus, the TREE OF LIFE, then THEY WILL UNDERSTAND this message from God, and THEY WILL TURN from misguided beliefs, and BACK TO LOVE!

Sorry, but I just can't seem to take any of that seriously, Craig. I've heard it all before, but I still think it just so much BS. The mantra about how god is love pales when compared to the fierceness of the perpetrators of the religion, & yes, that also includes you.

You have yet to disprove any truths of any other religion, so why would I only listen to you about yours? There's lots of other views, you know, even within your own faith.

Seems to me that if these truths are so obvious, that many more ppl would follow the parameters of that which you speak. Fact is, you are not speaking about christianity.

Christianity is a religion, Craig. Its followers act in certain ways, following the rules of the religion. While they aren't perfect examples of the religion, they are all we have to go by. When those followers speak in moralistic fashions, they certainly aren't saying to me that "god is love," but that I am a bad person for not following thier prescribed set of rules. When they speak derisively of other faiths, they aren't telling me that "god is love," either. They are telling me that thier way is the ONLY way. Know what? That's the surest way to get me to go somewhere else for spiritual guidance, cuz I don't know ANYONE who's perfect, or who has all the answers. While you claim to have all the answers, Craig, I ain't buying into it any more than I would, say, Jim Jones.

You may think that Jesus was perfect, but I don't really believe that he was. He made a lot of mistakes, & they've affected the world for 2,000 years in less than beneficial ways. If he were perfect, he would have been recognized as such, & prolly killed, anyway, but imho a "prefect" religious leader would have been a damned sight more clear to us all than he was, & would have written a little something of his own that we could follow. He did not. His words have been twisted & misused as a result. Nope. Not perfect.

The mantra about how god is love pales when compared to the fierceness of the perpetrators of the religion, & yes, that also includes you.

TRUTH doesn't pale in comparison to ANYTHING!

The only real question is whether we are FOLLOWING the truth or not. Just because we KNOW the truth, does not mean we will FOLLOW the truth.

By your logic, we cannot rely on ANYTHING nutritionists and doctors tell us, about eating healthy, lowering our cholesterol intake, or anything else, because the FACT that Americans are overwhelmingly obese, is the EVIDENCE that the doctors are liars.

Because, everyone would follow their advice and eat healthy and in moderation if these the doctors were telling the truth, wouldn't they?

Do you see how that doesn't work?

You have yet to disprove any truths of any other religion, so why would I only listen to you about yours?

First of all... My goal is not to DISPROVE other religions, because ALL religions contain truth from God.

I know this "spiritually" but it is also a LOGICAL IMPERATIVE, because if it were not the case, then...

1) A universal teaching like "The Golden Rule" would not be found in so many religions.

2) Where does "GOODNESS" come from, if not from God? So if I were to see a Muslim serving his neighbors and acting unselfishly, loving others, helping others, all out of his heart.... what do I then assess that as? He has learned these things from the Devil? Evil has inspired "GOOD" in him? If I recognize LOVE in others, and I know in my heart, and from the Bible that "GOD -IS- LOVE" then how can I also maintain that this person worships a false god? Where is the love coming from, if not God? Can the devil impart love in others?

And how can I call his religion a "false religion" when I recognize UNIVERSAL TRUTHS from God in it? At the very least... "PARTS" of that religion were inspired by God. How can I then call it a "false religion"? I can't. I can only suggest it is a religion with truths, but also errors or misunderstandings. And yet that applies to ALL religions, which are ALL inspired by God, but that inspiration is FILTERED through the minds and hearts of men, who are STILL EVOLVING from PHYSICAL and purely animal beings (flesh, which evolved to the point, that God could impart His SPIRIT making it a Living SOUL) to fundamentally "SPIRITUAL" BEINGS, who are rising above their animal ancestry, to the point where they can CONTROL the instincts of their flesh. And where their SPIRIT dominates their BODIES and not the other way around.

There's lots of other views, you know, even within your own faith.

I know. THOUSANDS of denominations of Christianity in fact.

And yet you claim that "I AM NOT CHRISTIAN" because I understand things differently, just as those various denominations do.

Seems to me that if these truths are so obvious, that many more ppl would follow the parameters of that which you speak.

SEE ABOVE!

It's now OBVIOUS to us, how bad high cholesterol foods are, but McDonald's sells the hell out of those Big Macs still.

So, even when something is OBVIOUS, it doesn't mean the masses will follow it. It is HARD... VERY HARD... moving the MASSES. It starts with inspiration to the few who listen, and will obey, and spread the message. Whether that message is Jesus' message of love, or Martin Luther King's message of RACIAL EQUALITY. ANY TRUTH which contradicts how people are CURRENTLY LIVING, will be ATTACKED and MOCKED and DISMISSED as something DANGEROUS, or RADICAL. The original messenger pays the highest price, and his followers continue paying, long after he/she has been tortured, murdered, etc... If the followers are COMMITTED to the message, they pay the price... they suffer whatever fate awaits them, to hold onto that truth... and slowly... OVER DOZENS, or HUNDREDS of EVEN THOUSANDS of years... It spreads, and it becomes the new NORMAL. An example is racism, which is dying an obvious death, but which is also still in the final death throes, and wildly lashes out with it's last moments of life, like a snake who's head has been cut off.

Look at where we have come since Martin Luther's death.

Those videos seem so foreign to us now, of POLICE THEMSELVES sending dogs on innocent people... Firemen "PROFESSIONAL FIREMEN" accosting them with firehouses... A GOVERNOR of an entire STATE, STANDING IN FRONT OF A SCHOOLHOUSE DOOR, to prevent a black child from attending public school there, merely because of her color.

We have gone from INSTITUIONAL RACISM at the highest levels of government, to people being fired for using the "N" word on TV or RADIO, even if it was ONCE, and even if they had been at that job for 20 years! ZERO TOLERANCE! And more importantly, THAT SAME NATION has now elected a black President! The highest office in the land!

That change was BOUGHT... PURCHASED... in blood and suffering!

Fact is, you are not speaking about christianity.

Fact is... That is -EXACTLY- what I am talking about!

Christianity is a religion, Craig. Its followers act in certain ways, following the rules of the religion.

Absolutely right.

And Jesus Himself, speaking of THOSE VERY RULES, said...


MATTHEW 22:34-40
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 ALL THE LAW and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Jesus is very clear that TWO RULES:

1) Love God with all your heart
2) Love your neighbor as yourself

Those two "RULES" are the heart of ALL LAWS and ALL COMMANDMENTS and ALL SCRIPTURE!

If you are doing those two things, you are effectively following ALL LAWS and ALL SCRIPTURE, since they are the very foundation of EVERYTHING that is important to God!

All the others rules and laws, are merely there to help us DO THOSE TWO!

What else is there?

How simple?

But many in my religion, pervert what is simple, and are more interested in putting on a SHOW for their church friends, and they instead, follow all the ritualistic rules, and MISS THE VERY TWO RULES that ALL THE OTHERS are designed to help achieve in them!

When those followers speak in moralistic fashions, they certainly aren't saying to me that "god is love," but that I am a bad person for not following their prescribed set of rules. When they speak derisively of other faiths, they aren't telling me that "god is love," either. They are telling me that their way is the ONLY way. Know what? That's the surest way to get me to go somewhere else for spiritual guidance, cuz I don't know ANYONE who's perfect, or who has all the answers.

Me either.

God is the only one I can think of.

While you claim to have all the answers, Craig, I ain't buying into it any more than I would, say, Jim Jones.

You know very well that I have never said that.

I have ALOT of answers.

And only then, it is because I have sought them out in tears and prayers and study and thought, my entire life... My ENTIRE LIFE, no joke, since I was first able to understand concepts like "religion" and "truth", since very early childhood.

But unlike many, I did not live in a vacuum. I was not searching for "truths" I "wanted" to hear, but REAL TRUTH. I could not help but understand that there were many diverse religions, seemingly in contradiction to one another, and yet claiming to be the only true path. They could not possibly ALL be right.

It has been a LONG journey.

My life.

A VERY LONG journey.

And frankly... I'm really tired, and ready to rest... permanently.

But God's not done with me yet apparently.

And all I can tell you, is that MANY PEOPLE SEEK, and I am sure God answers them too, if they are EARNESTLY seeking. But I cannot speak for them. I don't know whether their prayers are truly earnest. I don't know how seriously they seek, whether they seek DESPERATELY as if their life depended upon every answer. I don't know whether they pray from selfishness and preconceived ideas, or whether they remain open to EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING God tells them. I also don't know whether God trusts them.

That is between them and God.

But I know God trusts me.

And I know that THE MORE HE TRUSTS ME, the more He has shown me. In other words, it is almost as if, he has given me tastes of truth in the past, and watched what I did with them. I know that God's trust in me, has risen along with my own revelations FROM Him. I have sacrificed alot for God, and for others. And somehow, whenever I have felt that I just couldn't do it anymore, God somehow deepened my heart, and my understanding, and I WAS able to give more, and suffer more, and not abandon HOPE or LOVE as a result.

but imho a "prefect" religious leader would have been a damned sight more clear to us all than he was, & would have written a little something of his own that we could follow. He did not. His words have been twisted & misused as a result. Nope. Not perfect.

1) Love God with ALL YOUR HEART
2) Love your neighbor as yourself


There is NOTHING more clear than that.

Yet even Christians argue it... They find myriad reasons to justify strict adherence to rituals, even though they know very well, that Jesus and His followers BROKE those rules, all the time!

You yourself, read it, and you don't find Jesus message clear enough either somehow!!!


Yet...


IT'S PERFECTLY CLEAR!

AND PERFECTLY SIMPLE!

This is not about INTELLIGENCE and this is not about RITUALISTIC OBEDIENCE... this is about "ORIGNAL SIN" - The sin of "WANTING TO BE GOD MYSELF".

It is ONLY CORRECTED, by a change of heart, where God becomes LORD OF MY LIFE, and... I STOP BEING MY OWN GOD.

Until then...

Nothing will ever be CLEAR enough. Nothing will ever be EASY enough. Nothing will ever be GOOD enough.

Why?

Because... "I DO NOT WANT IT TO BE!"

I ENJOY being God of my own life.

As long as that occurs, someone is literally saying "I don't need God"

How can someone UNNEEDED be available for us?

They are unneeded.

We are TELLING THEM that we don't need them. We are fine being gods of our own lives.

God's position is... "Ok, it's your choice"

And I say... "Good luck with living life that way."

.

IT'S PERFECTLY CLEAR!

AND PERFECTLY SIMPLE!

What you should do, Craig, is start a new sect of Christianity (Hey, it's not a new idea - it's been done a dozen times already).

You can have a whole new bible - one that has two pages.

On page one would be "Love God with all your heart"

On page two would be "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Then it really WOULD be clear and easy.



Until you do that, the rest of us are stuck with a behemoth text that is misread and misinterpreted by the fallible being that is man; the corrupt being that is man, who will use the ambiguity of the text and its message, and who will use the rituals and dogma, to chain and control his fellow man, and use it as a war cry against anyone who opposes them.


So do us all a favor and start a new branch, and simplify the world.

So do us all a favor and start a new branch, and simplify the world.

Religion has always been, merely a TOOL.

A TOOL meant for the USE of mankind, but too often mankind WORSHIPS the tool, rather than USING THE TOOL.

That tool will be unecessary one day.

Just as if I needed the periodic table, but later memorized it, and no longer required it's help.

Or better yet, I have a DEVICE that translates language for me, but once I learn to speak the language like my native tongue, then the device becomes uneccessary for translations and communication.

Similarly, manking is learning to speak the language of love.

One day it will be our native language, and we can speak it freely, without relying on tools or devices.

It will become as much a part of us, as breathing!

Just as EQUALITY is becoming the new NORMAL.

Love, rather than hate, will one day be the new NORMAL.

.

When was the last time humans needed a reason to kill one another?

There has NEVER been a religion that resided on Earth that was not been violent in some form, manner.

Religions are violent because PEOPLE are violent.

I suppose someone could start a religion today, and if it only had a few adherents, maybe they could last days, weeks, and even years, without violence. But as the religion grows, and it collects more adherents, there -WILL- exist violence.

Jainism is one of the most non-violent religons that exists. They do NOT believe, even, in killing insects, but sweeeping them away instead. ANYTHING that has feeling, that experiences pain, they believe should NOT be harmed. But even there... I GUARANTEE YOU that violence has erupted by adherents to Jainism before. They aren't BORN enlightened, but work to achieve it.

There are no perfect religions, because there are no perfect people.

I have no quarrel with you at all Craig but what are you trying to accomplish man?

I just want to please God, help others, and leave a meaningful life behind me.

I think given world situations its easy to point at something and say "It's coming!" Perhaps it will, who knows? What comes? When, do we get a badge for it or is there a club meet every Sunday when there is a rest?

"We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."
----- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr -----


The speech this comes from, was unlike ANY he had ever given before. You are seeing the last few lines from it.

He was shot dead the NEXT DAY!

God "USED" Martin Luther King.
God "SPOKE" to Martin Luther King.
God "GAVE VISIONS" to Martin Luther King.

Martin Luther King was a sinner. He had numerous affairs, etc...

Martin Luther King was also a GREAT MAN trusted by God!

If God trusts you to be dedicated to a mission, He will USE YOU for that mission.

That's all I can tell you.

I don't know if it answers your question.

Great voice. Just wish you were in a band singing somewhere, posting Pics/Videos 'n' stuff.

Thank you, but honestly, it wouldn't stop me from sharing what is on my heart Chippy.

Maybe I'd post less, if I had less time, but on the other hand, MANY OTHERS could be posting in my place, if I had a world stage, and others who had been looking for the same answers I was, suddenly felt liberated, and became just as interested in ministering to people and saving the world, as I was, and with an understanding that could help accomplish that.

It could happen.

LOL



.

HMMMM , BIG GOVT, produces nothing,, only spends, creates jobs at taxpayer expense. Only job truly assigned,,,, National defense,,,, HMMMM

Big business, HMMMM,, overtaxed , over regulated, moving out of U.S.A. can actually make money if a major corporation is based over in some other country.

This is what is happening right now... Another 3 million taxpaying jobs lost because of govt regulation and EXTREME taxation. This is just the tip of the iceberg, a 10 trillion dollar national economy is done because of OVER regulation and OVER taxation.

Tired ,hungry , out of work,,, VOTE against your BILL OF RIGHTS,,

VOTE OBAMA.

Glen - big biz is moving out of the country to increase profits. They are already making profits here, damned good ones, but they are very greedy beasties, & want those HUGE profits at the expense of our jobs. Our life style drops to the level of the 3rd world, eventually, cuz we aren't working, but they've made thier money, & they are on top of the world. That's what's happening. Obama has nothing to do with it other than allowing them to do so, like all his predecessors have, recently, ever since Reagan started it all.

Education isn't necessarilly the answer to that problem, but it's still clear that we need major improvements there.


Craig - my goodness, man! You'll even hijack your OWN thread to push your religious ideas on us! Wasn't this thread about how they're tearing down America through the financial district? I can't even remember anymore...