General Music Chat

Somehow the pole question caught more attention. I see nothing wrong with national or state referendums concerning issues. I say let the people vote whether we legalize marijuana, let the people vote whether we allow late-term abortions or abortions period, let the people vote on capital punishment. We can argue about issues until we're blue in the face. I say let the majority rule and vote on issues every four years just like we vote for Presidents, governors, senators, etc. The people should decide period. We need to vote every four years because opinions change. If your state votes against capital punishment the next four years it may vote for it the following four years. Things change, opinions change.
I'm glad for you racefanrob. Hopefully you'll stay healthy. I believe quitting smoking and better nutrition had way more to do with your survival than the chemotherapy. I've had serious colon problems (never was diagnosed with cancer) that I've been able to control through diet and herbal supplements. I've heard some amazing stories about the healing properties of marijuana. A gal who had muscular dystrophy was apparently able to eliminate it by smoking marijuana. Her symptoms completely disappear if she smokes it, and reappear when she stops smoking it. Makes you wonder if the pharmaceutical companies have a hand in keeping pot illegal. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Later...

Well, with the poll asking the question and the user name of the poster being 420 something or other, I figure this has stayed fairly well close to topic...and have a couple of comments...

WAR on drugs...some politician's wife's really bad idea. (excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Clinton's wife or maybe the older Bush wife who got on TV and blithered on about a WAR on crime and drugs, and for some stupid reason it caught on? How did a politician's WIFE manage to acquire that kind of influence over the government anyway???)

This war on drugs and crime is a very bad idea, it only created a confrontational mentality on both sides. The criminals simply armed themselves for war, and the police, already armed, quickly developed a combative mentality. Bad idea, and has caused a lot of unnecessary deaths because now both the police and the criminal are looking for a shootout from square one...

Drug testing...as mentioned already, does not determine whether a person is currently under the influence, but the comments so far have been a bit off the mark. I looked up some info about this several years ago after being screwed by drug testing, I should not have been fired for something I smoked 3 weeks earlier.

Drug screening does not identify drugs currently in the system, it identifies metabolites formed 4-6 hours AFTER its use. That usually means also after its effects are long gone. This fact is one of the reasons current drug screening methods are ripping off both the person being tested and the entity that send him/her there.

Drug screening labs exist for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Therefore they want to get you in htere to pee in a bottle no matter what they have to tell your boss or the police, just so they get that money. Most employers requiring drug screening do not know the facts, they only know what the drug screening fanatics tell them. They are chasing away their best prospects, many who don't touch anything will be insulted and walk out the door, knowing they can get a job anywhere, those who do smoke pot will walk too, also being insulted by the fact that they will have to endure the indignity of the testing procedure and not wishing to risk legal problems. And the employers don't know that they are not sending people away who are actually under the influence, although they think they are. The drug testing labs don't inform them of that fact either...Money, remember???

People with alcohol problems usually are prevalent in most jobs I've had, and alcohol is a much bigger problem than drugs. Last time I checked, 40% of all on the job accidents were caused by alcohol, either by someone currently under the influence or by someone hung over. When you go to work hung over, you ARE still legally drunk, that has also been proven. A friend years ago got pulled over on the way to work and written up for DUI. And taken to jail...he still claimed he wasn't drunk, while the alcohol test showed differently. Hung over you are sluggish, cannot concentrate, nowhere near alert, and if you work with me I consider you an accident waiting to happen. Every one of the accidents I saw in machine shops (8 years as a machinist) were caused by other employees who came in that morning complaining of a hangover. Several of those got other people hurt.

People with alcohol problems also are less productive, take more sick time, have the worst attendance records, and often have more issues getting along with other eployees. People who have drinking problems are also more likely to be afflicted with serious medical problems, since it helps destroy the immune system, the worst of which is scirrhosis (Spelling??) of the liver...literally rotting liver...

Legally, drug testing is a blatant violation of constitutional rights to privacy and the freedom from body search without probable cause. The supreme court has ruled drug screening to be a body search, and when you pee in that bottle 99% of the drug testing labs require that someone WATCH through a 2 way mirror. Having a "bashful kidney" as it's called, that means I have to force it, and that hurts. It's also embarrasing to know someone is watching while you pee, an indignity that should never be allowed. And what kind of sick bastard actually wants to make his living watching people pee????

I don't completely agree with bob, although he has some very valid points, his thinking is headed in the right direction at least. I don't think all drugs should be totally legal, some should be very tightly controlled, but I do agree that users should not be facing prison time, and at least pot should be legal, not a "victimless crime". Rehab and counseling should be the first avenue explored. People selling hard drugs (cocaine, crack, speed, heroin etc) should be getting very stiff prison sentences, individuals committing violent crimes while under the influence of drugs should be getting stiff setnences as well as rehab or counseling. But the overall situation should be considered, not just the fact that a person robbed someone while high on crack. In some cases it may be more effective to egt the person help, the "monkey on your back" aspect of a drug habit will cause a person to do things he/she would never normally do, especially the first offense should involve more HELP and less incarceration. Alcohol related arrests should be getting stiffer sentences, especially while driving, over 100,000 people are killed every year by drunk drivers. Try to find out how many are killed because somebody smoked a joint before getting behind the wheel...Last time I tried I couldn't find a thing... It's just rumor, but somewhere I read that the government was embarrased to publish the figures they were so low...

It was dear old Nancy Reagan that got us on this kick, Pete, & she is the reason I quit voting for so many years. Last time I voted was in '80, & I haven't trusted my judgement since.

I can't stress this enough. Doing drugs is not the problem, criminal behavior is the problem. People who use drugs responsibly should NEVER be put in jail. Drug testing employees should be ILLEGAL. It's INSANE to fire an employee for having traces of a drug in his or her system. It's perfectly SANE to fire an employee for not doing their job properly, regardless of drug use. It's perfectly SANE to prosecute an employee for stealing from the company, and even MORE SANE to give that person DOUBLE the sentence if they're doing drugs. I'm for FREEDOM for an individual to do whatever they want including drugs as LONG AS THEY DO NOT COMMIT ANY CRIMES. GET IT? We should legalize drugs and establish a no-nonsense system to put CRIMINALS AWAY. I'm tired of people making excuses for criminal behavior. "I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing. I was temporarily insane." Excuses like that are EVEN MORE REASON TO BE INCARCERATED. Somebody who commits a crime is a danger to society. Look how many prison inmates who get out of prison and immediately commit crimes again. It just drives me crazy for anybody to MAKE EXCUSES FOR CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR. If we had a judicial system that first and foremost protects society then criminal behavior would be drastically reduced. I maintain that the taxes we can collect from the legal sale of drugs could be put to great use in early education and putting many more policemen on patrol. We NEED a radical change in the way our government does business. Unfortunately I'm not hearing anything good from any of the idiots running for office anywhere. Later...

Bob, I can see your points pretty clearly, but I must disagree. A crime is a crime, & putting more emphasis on the fact that a "legal" (by your way of doing things) drug was involved in the commission of said crime only continues the witch-hunts we presently have concerning them.

The only reason a punishment should be increased or decreased is when you consider the end result of one's actions, i.e. one who hurts another more should pay more for the extra pain & suffering or damage to the victim's property & such.

The effect is the same whether a person is high or drunk or sober, & the penalties for committing the crime, & the recompense for the victim should be the same across the board. No higher penalties for being under an influence cuz that makes no more sense to me than to say "well, we'll give this criminal an extra break, cuz at least he was sober."

The 420 Hour will be having a special recording session on election night. We will be utilizing PalTalk during the taping for anyone interested in being involved. If you live in the United States and are eligible to vote, you may not have skipped voting to be part of this panel. Only voters are wanted on this panel, cause if you don't vote, you don't have the right to bitch. Unless you cant vote, in which case we may let you participate anyway. All those who want to be part of it, you will need the room name and time for it, so you'll need to email your request to the420hour@gmail.com, if you cant vote, please tell your reason why. No one will be required to say who they voted for. Discussion will be used on the show in some future episode.

Plus we'll be having contests and giving away prizes, so don't miss it

There's zero continuation of the witch-hunts for drugs under a legalized drug society. There is a much better prosecution (in my opinion) of criminals. People will also think a little bit more the next time they drink and drive if YOU LOSE YOUR LICENSE FOR LIFE IF CAUGHT DUI. This is what they do in Germany for example. There is virtually no drunk driving in Germany (imagine that). My witch-hunt is for criminals. If they also happen to have a drug problem it is more likely their criminal behavior will continue. I want to get those people off the streets where they can do no further harm to society. Our criminal justice system has virtually no deterent effect. I don't care one iota if you do any drugs. If you smoke beacoup weed I could care less. I DO CARE a great deal if your drug habit leads to behavior that endangers society. We need to ELIMINATE the legislation of morality and STRENGTHEN our judicial system. I want to feel safe walking down any street in America. I want everyone to feel safe who use drugs or alcohol responsibly that they are not going to be thrown in jail merely posessing it or that their job will be terminated because they peed in a bottle. Our laws do not make any sense to me. In fact I believe our system makes it VERY PROFITABLE for drug gangs and thugs, and VERY DANGEROUS for honest folks. Change is needed. I want it to be a change for FREEDOM and SECURITY for everyoe in America. I want change to be VERY TOUGH for criminals, drug induced or not. Phil you make good points, but I sense a hint of paranoia about what I'm saying. What I'm talking about probably will never happen, but you have to admit that our system is fundamentally flawed. You might fear changes I would want, but you'll have to admit that change is needed and probably won't happen.

lol No one ever smoked too much pot and died..


Plenty of people have drunk themselves to death..

Do the math.