General Music Chat

WoW you fellow musician's are more in to History than me.I Was too much in to marching band, girl's,basket ball.And then there was this one time at bandcamp.

Mc Cain to me is Clinton out of drag.

LMAO!

Glad I wasn't taking a sip of anything. It would have been all over my computer keyboard. LOL

Anyone familiar with history, knows what the above picture is. They know who it is, and what he is holding in his hand.

They should also then remember, the price of naivety.

God bless America.

God bless those who are not so naive.

I know that picture well. It is Neville Chamberlain, waving around a pledge from Adolf Hitler not to make any more territorial demands in Europe after the Taking of the Sudetenland and the Anschluss in Austria. Chamberlain touted this as "peace in our time".

However, Craig, you are waaaay off the mark making that analogy in today's situation. Iran is, as it has been for some time, a scapegoat of US oil policy and nothing has changed. Ever since an evil cabal of British oil and American CIA schemers overthrew Iran's first democratically elected president Muhammad Mossadegh back in the early 50s, what could have been America's greatest friend in the region has been smacked into the face by Washington time and time again. That great crime against Iranian democracy back in the 50s laid the groundwork for Ayatollah Khomeini and the 1979 hostage crisis. Many Americans don't realize how this all goes so far back, and rests on the shoulders of our putrid, intrusive foreign policy at the behest of multinational business congloms.

And even today, Iran has done nothing wrong to us. Unlike us, they have not invaded and occupied several nations across the globe. Unlike us, they have not colluded with a plethora of business interests to destabilize an entire region for the market benefit of a few, at the expense of the many.

So, demonizing Iran is the biggest stage show we have put on since the rush to war with Iraq. And if we are ever stupid enough to pursue it, it will be 100 times the disaster that Iraq is. The Iranians, even though they want to live in a liberal nontheological democracy, will never settle for US interference and will make us their mortal enemies forever if we attack them. We do so at our own peril, and to our own lying disgrace.

"God bless those who are not so naive" ...well it looks like you shott yourself in the foot there craig...irminsul has you bang to rights..if you think iran is a threat to the usa your blind and beyond naive..
your government wants what iran has....OIL and lots of it...you can believe whatever you want but dont try and dress it up like "its for the good of america" because that is just wrong....

as irminsul stated iran is not the enemy of america,,but the us goverment want you to think that because when they try and invade iran(and its going to happen its just a matter of time) they can try and justify it much like the unlawfull invasion of iraq......

as a result iran is "shitting" itself and trying to arm itself the best it can and i believe iran has every right to defend itself aginst an invasion forse from any over the top warmongering country like america....

and im sure your fighting them over there so you dont have to fight them over here..... that is just so sad.

ps....a pic of the british prime minster from donkeys years ago in a bid to rouse favour is as effective as a band aid to a gunshott wound to the head.

... Wow, this is going to become a war fast.

Well, let me throw in my two cents, so to speak.

First off, Iran is probably about oil, but to an extent. Let us remember something, they are trying to build nuclear weapons and they are the largest terrorist state in the Middle East, they harbor plenty of them. I think Iraq was more prone to be about oil than this is, this is about the construction of nuclear weapons in a terrorist nation. The people of Iran are decent, but the government is a Theocracy Republic and is a dictatorship that is controlled by Ahmadinejad and Iranian religious leaders (The clerics). The people are more westernized and believe in what we do, but that does not seem to stop the atrocities that transpire in that country.

Let us take a step back for a minute, remembering we here on this forum board, and even in philosophizing colleges, are nothing but mere men (or women) who are debating this fragile subject. We have no power or say in this matter, nor do we have the actual facts of the situation, even if we claim too. The country that holds the strongest facts is Israel, considering their Mossad out matches our CIA probably 10 to 1. They are smarter than we are and always have been, and as much as I disagree with many of Israel's actions, if they say there is a nuclear threat, there is one. I do not want to see any attacks even if there is a nuclear threat, but you can see why Israel (A nation that is at a small distance from Iran) would be frightened.

The United States would love to attack Iran, it could be great for oil, it would take down a nuclear threat, and maybe even part of a terrorist threat. On the contrary, this would have ramifications that the world has yet to even imagine.

Let us remember (going back to what I said above) that they are the largest harboring state of terrorists in the Middle East. They design them, train them, and send them over to kill our people in Iraq (Which there is tons of evidence of). They love to provoke us and they want nothing more than us to attack so we look bad in the eyes of the world (Or should I say even worse than we already do). Back on topic, if we attack Iran there will be a slew of terrorist attacks in this country of which the likes this world has never seen before. They will use chemical warfare, biological warfare, radiological warfare, and so on and so forth.

Being someone that has taken study of different diseases caused by these types of warfare, I will be the first to say it would not be a pretty sight. People tend to be naive and think Iran is stupid, they are not, they are just playing their cards right. They love to bluff and they love when we open our big mouths in America, in turn making ourselves look like a pile of garbage.

Iran is a threat to our country, but no course of action should be taken unless absolutely necessary. McCain would like nothing more than to attack them, you know that is what he is after, he is a war monger. America is a war mongering country, especially nowadays with the terrorist threat.

However, this country is free to extents that others are not, even if at times I look at it like a light form of a dictatorship. We are the strongest nation in the world, we have technological advances that others could not even dream about. We can certainly handle ourselves against Iran, even in a nuclear war/biological/chemical war.

This world is deteriorating rapidly, a war could be sparked on the slightest turn of the dime.

Face it, every country has its flaws. Let us open our eyes for one second, whether it be on this forum board, or in a college, or anywhere else, and realize that a war is coming. For God sakes, Armageddon is coming. We need not even think of it in a religious context, because now it looks like man will be its own demise.

If peace is not found in some way in this world, maybe from some random leader, then we face a possibility of their being no tomorrow. The world will end in fire and not in ice, as has been predicted by astronomers - or we could always go back to Robert Frost and his poem "Fire and Ice."

I say we pray for their to be a tomorrow and for us to find a solution to this matter. If we do not it is our children who are going to pay the price, and us as well depending on when this finally erodes.

I will leave you guys with those thoughts, which are from someone who is of this younger generation of voters.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

thank you irish anthony. Did every body forget the fear factor. Evry nation including the U.S has reacted out of fear and sometimesw anger..... They don't fear us because, we have a face. They fear what they cannot see. which is ...what our weopons can do to them...Every action has it's inevitable reaction. Our actions abroad have created this fear. and as for me ...when i'm in fear my reaction is straight up anger. I lived in Madrid ,Spain in 81. I went to school at KING'S College. .It was the school for the kids of diplomats. I saw first hand the sentiment against us and rarely the pro U.S.. We have sucked at diplomacy . hell kennedy messed up the bay of pigs. and we sure as hell took our time to join against the nazi's.. we hve sucked period..We will not in our life time see that change ..but we should try...I will say that our friend,Hassan,the son of iranians diplomat to spain. was one of our best friends. The iranians know that Pres...Bush is an !@#$%^. The crazyies over there can use that as fuel for thier fire. And they have!...I refuse to hear thatr we are in danger of terroism and that if we don't get them they'll get us.. eventhough it's true . i prefer to give those kids books and education and TV and Radio and let them dream about the future instead of trained to be terroist because of what we did in the past....Be real bullets don't teach anything. we can change the world with intelligence and respect . Good ole republicans haven't showed respect for anybody including themselves for 7 years.......Go democrats. Let's see if they will do better...........

good points everybody...but g.a you should never label any country as "a terrorist state" no matter how you feel about it...
for example if somebody labeled "ireland" as a terrorist state i would have little time for them...
and truth be know the "I.R.A" were the most advanced "terrorists" on the planet...even the british goverment admitted that it could never beat the I.R.A in military combat and that talking through politics was the only way to solve the problem....
the I.R.A have trained other "terrorist" factions like the farq in colombia,the bask in spain and many other groups all over the world..

true iran has terrorist training bases on its land..but so does afganistan and even pakistan who unless im very much mistaken are a "friendly" nation to the U.S.A.....

and as for the nuclear weapons..where are iraqs w.m.d ???my young friend france has nuclear weapons but i dont see america trying to invade them....its little more than a smoke screen to curry favour...north korea have been paid off by the u.s.a to stop there nuclear program in a guns for aid type of deal...but alass china who are going to be the next super power have had a nuclear weapons program for years but america fears china more than any other state in the world because china doesnt fear america..im almost sure china would never fall to an american invasion forse...remember vietnam...its would be like that times a million.

Craig I believe your portrayal of the overthrow of Mossadegh was...wanting..to say the least. The reasons he nationalized oil in Iran was much more than wanting to stick it to the British. It involved labor abuse and raw thievery on the part of the US and England.

If you got to hear the whole story, I'll bet it would enrage you. Let me suggest a book to you -

ALL THE SHAH'S MEN by Steven Kinzer
http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/0471265179

The reasons you listed for demonizing Iran look right out of the George Bush playbook. Funding and training AlQaeda? Possible but unproven. Iran has arrested hundreds of AlQaeda that streamed into Iran after the US attack on Afghanistan (remember that they religious rivals). Are they involved with the fighting in Iraq? Likely, but for good reason. They have a stake in the coming Islamic Republic of Iraq (yes, it is coming and it will be a Shiite Federation with Iran and Iraq). No sane nation in that situation would NOT be involved.

So succinctly put, Iran does not rise to the bar of the threat of Nazi Germany. Not even close. In fact, it's a slap in the face of all who fought and died to defeat that very real world threat, by attempting to paste the blueprint of WWII on to today's drama between little Iran and a US military behemoth, wildly out of control.

"God bless those who are not so naive" ...well it looks like you shott yourself in the foot there craig...irminsul has you bang to rights..if you think iran is a threat to the usa your blind and beyond naive..
your government wants what iran has....OIL and lots of it...you can believe whatever you want but dont try and dress it up like "its for the good of america" because that is just wrong.....

Feel better now?

Let's get down to some business. In some ways you are attacking my character as well as my intelligence. You are deeply mistaken on BOTH counts.

Concerning intelligence, I am guided by something called "critical thought" and not by irrational, albeit often emotionally charged, rhetoric or seemingly clever slogans. I am willing to bet, that probably more than anyone I see, regularly posting on these boards, you are dealing with someone that seeks truth, regardless of what anyone thinks about it, or whether it is popular.

In my song "Coming Home" about a father's final words to his son, before dying in war, one of the things he tells his son is "Try to keep on standing, even if sometimes you're standing all alone". That is more than song lyrics for me. It is taken from my own life. While still a child, I adopted the philosophy that I wanted to be a person who stood for truth, and what was right, even if I was the only person in the world who did.

Roll your eyes if you must, but in all sincerity, it is what motivates my life.

Having said all that, let me address a few of your challenges, which were not very well thought out.

Iran is about oil? About economic interests?

Did you miss the part where I said that MUCH of our foreign policy has been guided by economic interests? Clearly you did, or you would have been less enthusiastic in claiming "Gotcha!"

Was Irminsul right? His history is fairly accurate, but incomplete, as I said.

America is not "good". Did you have me confused with some uneducated fundi who while displaying as much zeal as the most loyal Hitler youth, nevertheless, displays just as little logic and personal courage?

Well, you got that wrong. Growing up everywhere from Jacksonville Florida, in many ways a small town mentality, to Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, and then New York and 8 years in Washington, DC, I have had friends from all over the world, all my life. Friends from every color and culture and persuasion you can imagine. It has taught me quite a bit, because while I heard my country's party line, I also heard from friends from many nations throughout the world tell me what the CIA really does in their country.

I'm nobody's puppet, and I don't swallow anyone's party line. I apply critical thought, research matters, listen to everyone, and make the most accurate judgment possible from the available facts.

America is not good. It will never be good. Because people in positions of power are not good. As one rises up the food chain, by necessity, his ideals and morals, inevitably give way to the debt he owes to those that got him there.

America is NOT good.

NO country is good.

However, America "IS" a nation of lofty and worthy ideals. And while our nation's leaders do not always live up to those ideals, multitudes of our citizens BELIEVE in those ideals. Sadly, America's leaders "USE" as excuses, the very ideals many of us love, in order to gain popular support for certain ventures, which often have less than lofty secretive goals.

That is not a reason to paint an entire people with the same brush. Good and well meaning people are sometimes deceived, and even more easily so, than those who have been around the block.

America is not good, but in many ways, it is "better" than most countries the world historically has ever seen. All countries act in their own selfish interest, and not even for the interest of the nation itself, as much as the interest of it's elite class.

Find me a nation who has defeated industrial and modern powers like Germany and Japan, only to help them rebuild, under newly Democratic governments, and accept them as economic competitors.

You have the "war mongering" mantra wrong. America's citizens are often loathe to go to war, even when it is obvious how necessary it is. Go back and look at how long it took us to get involved in World War II. The government almost had to trick us, with the "Lend Lease" policy, in order to support nations like Great Britain who were under siege by Germany and the Axis powers. We supplied military and other goods, to the tune of 700 BILLION in 2007 money. To help the allied powers defend themselves against countries seeking to conquer the world and divide it amongst themselves.

After World War I, America took an isolationist position, not being eager to go through, again, the loss and sacrifices that were extracted.

Were it not for America, the political landscape of the world, would be entirely different, and certainly NOT for the better.

You are typing your ill-conceived message for the world to see, in point of fact, because you live in a free country, and came from a part of the world, that owes it's freedom to America.

So, while I always consider your opinions seriously, even though some are less rational than others, and I also respect your right to trash the nation you now find yourself living in, nevertheless, let me just say, from the bottom of my heart...

f**k YOU! For not first having thanked us, for your right to say it!

Anthony, while I respect Craig's intelligence and know he has a good heart, he labors under a common American delusion about their own position in the world. It is one of supremacy, and is pounded into our little skulls from the first days of our schooling. It holds that we were the singular force in the world to change it for the better, that we have the best lifestyle and society, and that we know better how to run the countries of other people than they do.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country. Not for what it's doing right now, but for some of what it has done in the past, and for certain principles I know has helped the world. I won't belabour those, we all know what they are. But this idea that we are deciding factor of all that is good and right on the planet needs to be buried along with many other 19th century ideas.

The world is a much different place now. We are more connected, not less. We are more aware of each other, not less. This is causing a natural melding of sorts, of ideas, economies and futures. This means that the US is a player in the world drama, not the director, anymore. The sooner we accept that and stop trying to hold on to the crown of supremacy, the better, It's time to contribute, not dominate. Suggest, don't dictate.

This is going to be very difficult for us, but we've changed before. We can do it again.

Okay, um, people, stop cursing each other out. Calm down for a minute, huh? Let us keep this civil.

First off, in respone to you I.A.: Iran is a terrorist state, period. They harbor them to the point of 50,000 and up, that is enough to label it that. Now I know Ireland has had its share of problems, but let us keep in mind that Iran's people have a totally different religion and type of thinking, naturally. They are a threat to our country and others, they are a threat to the world around us. I call for no attacks personally, but that does not mean that one is not coming.

But no one make the mistake in thinking Iran is some little pushed around child who is defenseless and causes no problems. They are a very dangerous country, period.

Jihadist will not be happy till every Israeli and American on Earth is dead as a door nail. Hell, they will not be happy till it is just them on Earth. We are dealing with extremist who are completely unafraid to die.


Irminsul, I think there are a lot of things that are unproven in this world, that is true. However, I think we all know that Iran is a very dangerous country with extremist thinking that would like nothing more than world domination. But let me correct that, when I say Iran, I really mean the government. I have seen enough proof that the people of Iran do no agree with the government and are more liberal minded, so let us keep them out of it.

Actually, there is a point I am sure you will agree with me on. It is the governments that tend to cause war and not get along, it is not the people. It is actually that case in Israel with Palestine. Countless times I have heard the people say they get along and the governments are the cause of the problems.

But back on topic, you are right, Iran is nothing like Nazi Germany. But I will say the thinking is just the same (Let me press once more I am talking about the government and not the people), they are just not capable of doing the same, that is the difference.

Nazi Germany was an atrocity that never should have taken place. In fact, the USA did not step in in time to stop that to my knowledge, I think they should have gotten involved sooner. So I think as a result of their mistakes in that time we see a new U.S. that tries to act ahead of time, but now just in the wrong directions.

I think we can all agree that the only thing comprabable to the Holocaust now is what is going on in Darfur, Kenya, and other parts of Africa that are under seize. It might not be as well controlled, but God knows it is a massacre over there, and no one wants to think about it, they just want to go and hide and imagine it is not happening.

Face it people, the world stinks. It needs help.

Someone quickly call "Extreme Makeover Earth," .

Peace out guys, I mean no offense in anything I say, so just take it in a logical fashion and not as an assault on any of you. I respect every one of you, you are all apparently intelligent people.

Sign, GuitarAnatomy.

Craig I believe your portrayal of the overthrow of Mossadegh was...wanting..to say the least. The reasons he nationalized oil in Iran was much more than wanting to stick it to the British. It involved labor abuse and raw thievery on the part of the US and England.

If you got to hear the whole story, I'll bet it would enrage you. Let me suggest a book to you -

ALL THE SHAH'S MEN by Steven Kinzer
http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/0471265179

Thanks, I'll check it out. But I didn't say that ours or Britain's actions in Iran were necessarly good, just that they had billions of dollars at stake and weren't going to just walk away from it. Look at the fight that Gandhi took up on behalf of India's people. Britain may have somehow felt, in some deluded way, that they were ultimately doing some kind of good there, but of course, it came down to economic interests as it usually does. I wish I could remember the book it came from, but there is a quote that I often think of, which says "All wars are ultimately caused by undefended wealth." Meaning that historically, a country has an attractive amount of wealth or resources, but it is not militarily capable of defending it, and a more powerful nation or army, invades to take it for themselves.

So succinctly put, Iran does not rise to the bar of the threat of Nazi Germany. Not even close.

You are absolutely and incontrovertably WRONG!

In many ways, the threats faced today are FAR greater than those which were imposed by Nazi Germany. The proliferation of biological and nuclear weapons, means that even peon countries or even small sects, could potentially wipe out huge numbers of civillians, which, in the past, would have required a major military tactical assault. In the world we live in, it only requires a single individual walking across the border with a weapon that can now fit in a single suitcase, to wipe out a large portion of a major city.

When I say that leaving Iraq will speed up the attack at home, it is not because of the silly slogans that Irish referred to earlier, namely that we are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here, but instead, because, being "THERE" we are closer and more in the midst of the abilities, plans and preparations, to accomplish such a feat, and more in power to disrupt or at least delay it. Not to mention, that we are able to continue assasinating the ring leaders and planners of such activities.

If you read various statements by groups that make position papers on the threats of nuclear weapons. You will find a common statement, which goes like this...

It is not "IF" a city in America will be the target of a limited nuclear attack, but "WHEN".

Very intelligent people, who do what they do for a living, and are considered experts, are telling us, that "WE WILL" be the target of a limited nuclear attack. Not "we may" but "we will".

This is easy to accept, when you understand, not only the venomous resolve of demented radicals, but that they are well financed, even by countries (Like Iran) and that with the break-up of the Soviet Union, there are hundreds of nuclear weapons unaccounted for. Who knows if the assasination of Bhutto was not designed to throw a nuclear armed country into chaos, in order to gain control of a nation which already possesses nuclear weapons? That could be a stretch, and maybe some radicals just didn't want a female leading that country again, or her desire to increase freedoms, or her family's history, or America's support of her impending presidency, etc... It could be any of those reasons, but it is not, in my mind, impossible to believe, that radical extremists salivate at the mouth, at the thought of one day gaining influence in a country which already has nuclear weapons.

Regardless of that, the fact remains, that a smaller group of ill-intentioned individuals, have the potential ability to inflict more damage to America, than all of Hitler's armies could have accomplished.

There are biological agents, far more deadly now, than existed during World War II, and Hitler was stopped before he aquired the ability to produce nuclear weapons.

Things have changed.

Anthony, while I respect Craig's intelligence and know he has a good heart, he labors under a common American delusion about their own position in the world. It is one of supremacy, and is pounded into our little skulls from the first days of our schooling. It holds that we were the singular force in the world to change it for the better, that we have the best lifestyle and society, and that we know better how to run the countries of other people than they do.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country. Not for what it's doing right now, but for some of what it has done in the past, and for certain principles I know has helped the world. I won't belabour those, we all know what they are. But this idea that we are deciding factor of all that is good and right on the planet needs to be buried along with many other 19th century ideas.

The world is a much different place now. We are more connected, not less. We are more aware of each other, not less. This is causing a natural melding of sorts, of ideas, economies and futures. This means that the US is a player in the world drama, not the director, anymore. The sooner we accept that and stop trying to hold on to the crown of supremacy, the better, It's time to contribute, not dominate. Suggest, don't dictate.

This is going to be very difficult for us, but we've changed before. We can do it again.

Well Irminsul, you may be surprised to hear that I agree in principle with most of what you say above.

And the world is changing and more connected, and the wealthy elite of the world probably want to make it more so, rather than less, because instability wreaks havoc on the world economies. Have you ever considered that, underlying all of this, it may very well be, that there are forces at work trying to MAKE certain segments of the world enter the modern era?

Muslim theology, particularly the radical version, is horribly and DANGEROUSLY outdated. America, as many Americans forget, was in part, founded by people ESCAPING theocracy. They were fleeing state mandated religion. And here is a whole section of the world, with desires of creating exactly that, namely a theocracy with the Muslim religion as the mandated religion and that religion being the thought that guides governments and their peoples.

You see less and less, of governments controlled by religion, but in Islam, not only do you see that desire wanting to be fulfilled on a global scale, but the economic fortitude as a tool, to potentially help it occur. They know, as we know, that oil powers the world. Hording it, or tripling it's prices, could devastate the American economy, and because it is so inseperable from the world economy, it has the power to wreak havoc throughout the world.

Radical Islamists, would love nothing more, than to parlay the oil producing nation's considerable wealth, into a force to reckon with militarily as well. They would love to have the power and military strength that America holds, but to use it, to control the world, and make it Muslim. Only a fool would argue this, as Islam DOES believe that the world MUST be subjugated into submission and accept Islam. Islam was widely spread by the edges of swords, and the radicals among Muslims, have not stopped wanting to follow Muhammad's example of conversion by force. Only now, the potential tools of the trade, are far more damaging than mere steel.

YEE HAA !! Boy do iI love living in a free country (well somewhat free anyway) Try having this converstion in public in Iran. I dissagree with a lot of what all of you are sayin and agree some. Hell In not even sure what some of it means if anything. But I can tell you this much.
The "Lofty Goals" Life Liberty and Justice are slidin down the socalist toilet.
And Im startin to think both political parties in the USA have their hand on the handle.

[You are absolutely and incontrovertably WRONG!

In many ways, the threats faced today are FAR greater than those which were imposed by Nazi Germany. The proliferation of biological and nuclear weapons, ...<snip>

Oh Craig PLEASE. All you gave me was a list of mighta's, could'ves should'ves and could-bes!

Atomic weapons - EEEK!

Biological weapons - AAAAHH!

Chemical Weapons - YIKES!!!

Lions and tigers and bears. Yes, they are out there. But all you are talking about are a list maybes! Do you know what what was happening during the worst part of WWII? There were no maybes. It was really happening, Craig. In real time. And we were doing the right thing by fighting them down.

Sorry, but you will not get anywhere with a list of subjunctives if you are trying to paint Iran with the German Nazi brush.

You went on to give a good dressing down to the Muslim religion, but you know what? I huge number of the worlds' people adhere to it. And guess what...the overwhelming majority of them are modern, peaceful people. I've lived around them and worked with them for years. I'd trust them with my household, and with everything I hold dear. They are moral, responsible and communaly minded people who love their families like you do yours. Sure, there are murderous nuts among them. But to go into some sort of round-house condemnation of them won't advance your case one iota.

Best thing for us to do is leave Iran the hell alone. That's all they want anyway. It's all they have ever wanted. If more countries cleaved to that notion, there wouldn't be anymore need for glorious trumped up invasions.

f **k YOU! For not first having thanked us, for your right to say it!

thanks for that craig

there is so much i have to address in your psycho-babble i dont know where to start...as irminsul explaned after the fact i can kind of see your point...but just for your records you f ucking loon ireland was a neutral country during both world wars and it remains so till this day so pardon me all to f ucking hell for not thanking you for something you didnt do.

i know by your posts that you are both very clever and well able to convey how you feel..ive never attacked you or your intelligence only your views...if your reaction to me is to tell me " f **k YOU! For not first having thanked us, for your right to say it!" well i guess ive already won.

its too easy to throw sh*t craig and im sure its beneath you..irminsul questioned your view and you didnt tell him to f**k off..what gives??

ive obviously hit a nerve and ill stand by everything ive said i dont see how im "american bashing" i live here if i didnt like it i would just move back to ireland but its my f ucking choice.

to close you must be able to speak your point of view no matter how outlandish or different or wrong it seems to others without fear of being told to "f uck off" as a response...we have so many wonderful words to play with..... a simple "f uck you".... any old clown can always fall back on that.