General Music Chat

Actually Kurt killed himself with a shotgun, not an overdose Yod. And I've never really heard anyone say he was a great player, so calling him overrated is not relevant. Kurt was a major force in the 90's, his song writing was important and he will remembered long after any of us.

Hum, in my opinion I think Im the most overrated guitarist ever!


LOL, Im not even gonna comment on the Page remarks, let the records, the concerts, the whole shabang speak for itself.

In my mind if I could have been one guitarist in his heyday, it would be Page, he was the man, still is and always will be in my mind!

Actually Kurt killed himself with a shotgun, not an overdose Yod. And I've never really heard anyone say he was a great player, so calling him overrated is not relevant. Kurt was a major force in the 90's, his song writing was important and he will remembered long after any of us.

Meant no disrespect to Cobain. Shotguns leave a bloody corpse.

My poorly made point was that Cobain was THE (electric) guitar force of the 90s without being a "great" guitar player by previous standards.

Page can't be judged fairly by today. So much of today would not have happened without him blazing a trail that wasn't there before him. He was a genius in so many ways.

How many bands do you know of that could do blues, metal, singer-songwriter folk, classical music, arabic, and even a little country on the same record and credibly pull that off?

Has anyone done it since?






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Actually Kurt killed himself with a shotgun, not an overdose Yod. And I've never really heard anyone say he was a great player, so calling him overrated is not relevant. Kurt was a major force in the 90's, his song writing was important and he will remembered long after any of us.

Meant no disrespect to Cobain. Shotguns leave a bloody corpse.

My poorly made point was that Cobain was THE (electric) guitar force of the 90s without being a "great" guitar player by previous standards.

Page can't be judged fairly by today. So much of today would not have happened without him blazing a trail that wasn't there before him. He was a genius in so many ways.

How many bands do you know of that could do blues, metal, singer-songwriter folk, classical music, arabic, and even a little country on the same record and credibly pull that off?

Has anyone done it since?

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Page was an excellent 'guitarist'. And not too shabby at composition. But he didn't really invent anything outside the boundaries of rock.

Cobain pioneered the "Grunge" genre. You may not like that genre, but it swept the world for a little while. Not bad for an amatuer guitarist. IMHO

actually, I am now going to give you the correct answer as to who the most over rated guitarist was.. Johnny Winter is your man.. not that he is on my top 5 of favorite guitarists, but the fact he is the most over rated since he was paid I think $900,000.00 as a pre-sign bonus not even having to strum 1 chord by I think CBS Records in 1971? I am going from memory on all this and not googling it, but CBS Records thought he was going to be the next BIG THING! but sadly he was a commercial flop for the most part..so really he is over rated cause he did not live up to expectations the record co. executives thought he should be able to live up to..

Page was an excellent 'guitarist'. And not too shabby at composition. But he didn't really invent anything outside the boundaries of rock.

That's just silly. His blend of classical, folk, arabic, and blues was so far ahead of everyone else at the time. Who compared with him in 1968? The only person who could touch him (when Zep started) for rock innovation was Hendrix.

Maybe his biggest accomplishments were offstage. Page set the example of owning everything and it had never been done before. He owned the publishing company, record label (signed and produced Bad Company and others), recording studio, sound company (Showco is still going strong), and private jet. They practically invented the stadium rock band.

He was setting the standard for great guitarists long before he started Zep in '68. His work on so many big records out of London have to make him one of the forerunners of the "psychedelic" genre of rock.

Zep pioneered hard rock/heavy metal like no other. He created something that wasn't there. Cobain was simply a garage band guitarist that made it by being in the right place at the right time.



Page was the favoured session guitarist of producer Shel Talmy. Talmy later stated in an interview with Finding Zoso, "I mean, he was original. At that time in London where there were very few really current musicians. A lot of good musicians, but kind of mired slightly in the past. There was like one or two good rhythm sections and that was it. I originally started using Big Jim Sullivan who was the only other one and then when I found Jimmy, who I thought was even better because he was more with it. He was doing what I thought should be done and certainly what was being done in the states so it was a no-brainer."[citation needed] As a result, he secured session work on songs for the Who and The Kinks.[17] Page is credited with playing acoustic twelve string guitar on two tracks on The Kinks' debut album "I'm a Lover Not a Fighter" and "I've Been Driving On Bald Mountain"[18] and possibly on the b-side "I Gotta Move".[19] He played six-string rhythm guitar on the sessions for the Who's first single "I Can't Explain"[16] (although Pete Townshend was reluctant to allow Page's contribution on the final recording, Page also played lead guitar on the B-side "Bald Headed Woman").[20] Page's studio gigs in 1964 included Marianne Faithfull's "As Tears Go By", The Nashville Teens' "Tobacco Road", The Rolling Stones' "Heart of Stone" (released on Metamorphosis), Van Morrison & Them's "Baby Please Don't Go" and "Here Comes the Night", Dave Berry's "The Crying Game" and "My Baby Left Me", Brenda Lee's "Is It True," and Petula Clark's "Downtown".
In 1965 Page was hired by Stones manager Andrew Loog Oldham to act as house producer and A&R man for the newly formed Immediate Records label, which allowed him to play on and/or produce tracks by John Mayall, Nico, Chris Farlowe, Twice as Much and Clapton. Page also formed a brief songwriting partnership with then romantic interest, Jackie DeShannon. He composed and recorded songs for the John Williams (not the classical guitarist John Williams) album The Maureeny Wishful Album with Big Jim Sullivan. Page worked as session musician on Donovan Leitch's Sunshine Superman (1966) and the Johnny Hallyday albums Jeune Homme (1968) and Je Suis Né Dans La Rue (1969), the Al Stewart album Love Chronicles (1969) and played guitar on five tracks of Joe Cocker's debut album, With a Little Help from My Friends. Over the years since 1970 Page played lead guitar on 10 Roy Harper tracks, comprising 81 minutes of music.
When questioned about which songs he played on, especially ones where there exists some controversy as to what his exact role was, Page often points out that it is hard to remember exactly what he did given the enormous number of sessions he was playing at the time.[16][17] In a radio interview he explained that "I was doing three sessions a day, fifteen sessions a week. Sometimes I would be playing with a group, sometimes I could be doing film music, it could be a folk session ... I was able to fit all these different roles."[10]

Page set the standard in the early mid seventies of what a rock guitarist should look like, I mean to this day he is the coolest looking guitar player ever to me, and that includes Hendrix, no white man could get away wearing those pink feathers Jimi wore! LOL!

Page was an excellent 'guitarist'. And not too shabby at composition. But he didn't really invent anything outside the boundaries of rock.

Code: Select allThat's just silly. His blend of classical, folk, a[b]rabic, and blues was so far ahead of everyone else at the time.

Everyone else? I doubt that. WHat about [/b]Yes, ELP... EVen Queen had some great stuff out there If you ask me, Yes ran circles around Zep when it came to composition. I guess you and will have to agree to disagree.

Who compared with him in 1968? The only person who could touch him (when Zep started) for rock innovation was Hendrix.

I believe you may have that backwards. Hendrix was the alpha and the omega of psy/acid rock... Even so , there are aruments floating around the the real innovators of that type of rock came out of Texas (Wont go into that here)

Maybe his biggest accomplishments were offstage. Page set the example of owning everything and it had never been done before. He owned the publishing company, record label (signed and produced Bad Company and others), recording studio, sound company (Showco is still going strong), and private jet. They practically invented the stadium rock band.

I stayed at a holiday inn Express once and obtained a sizable discount... What does that have to do with musical creation? I'm not taking away from Page. He was indeed an extraordinary accomplished individual, including that of being one of the greatest rock guitarists in the world. But I still stand by what I said, For all his accolades, I do not believe he invented anything new.. Instead, he embellished on the patently obvious stuff that was already there, but that many others kept ignoring. I will say also, he lived ate and breathed music since an adolescent. (That alone is admirable in my book)

He was setting the standard for great guitarists long before he started Zep in '68. His work on so many big records out of London have to make him one of the forerunners of the "psychedelic" genre of rock.

I think Black Sabbath had more of that going.

Zep pioneered hard rock/heavy metal like no other. He created something that wasn't there. Cobain was simply a garage band guitarist that made it by being in the right place at the right time.

Zep pioneered a formulated approach to rock/blues fusion. People say that Zep wrote "blues songs"... I would say they wrote bastardized versions of standard 12 bar, and fused it with dirty guitar work and aggressive beat patterns. That's about the the extent of it (IMHO)
Add a pretty boy hair look and feel and you get a masculine metal band with sex appeal... That's Zep. Page was a part of that, so he gets due credit.

You may disrespect Cobain, or scoff at him, musically...Bu the truth is, he built a follwing with only half the effort that zep had to exert. (Plant even confessed about the deliberate attemt to keep the band image mysterious) , where as Curt, generated the mystique naturally. He was fast becoming a worlde wide sensation... and of course, a pioneeer of a genrea that had to bust out of the rock Paradigm.

Its okay if you disagree... I'll still respect you

[/quote]

Eric Clapton

Stirred the pot I did indeed!!

Page is a great songwriter, but playing ability is the exact opposite

Stirred the pot some more!
Sir Jamsalot

Why Clapton? Clapton's not the best, but he is pretty good.

cheers!

John

JMZ, that kind of talk around these parts is sacrilege! Apparently you aren't trying to make friends on this site. I don't know you but I'm thinking you aren't very famous? This topic is subjective and based in opinion. The facts are Jimmy Page has written some of the most appreciated guitar parts in the last half century. He has also dare I say made more money playing music than you'll ever make doing anything. Having said that I'll just take your comment as the opinion of a finicky Jazzer!

Not a Jazzer

LONG LIVE METAL!

cheers

John

There is no such thing as an overrated Guitarist. You never hear people , who hate a guitarist, giving props to that guitarist. And you will always hear people who love the guitarist, paying great homage to that guitarist...

Thus, It always works out to precision consensus.

Therefore, your question was obviously a trick question...and I shall never fall for it

you are truly the wiser!

cheers

John

Hum, in my opinion I think Im the most overrated guitarist ever!


LOL, Im not even gonna comment on the Page remarks, let the records, the concerts, the whole shabang speak for itself.

In my mind if I could have been one guitarist in his heyday, it would be Page, he was the man, still is and always will be in my mind!

I disagree....

I'M the most overrated guitar player ....IN MY DREAMS!cheers!


John

But who is the most over paid guitarist?

Johnny Winter is hardly over-rated. Perhaps the record company bet too heavily on his initial impact but it would be very difficult to over rate his actual playing.

Though for a while I wished he would tone down the phaser a bit!

I still remember seeing his picture in a magazine - him in a pub NYC as they described this amazing albino guitar player from Texas. And so he was.

Talbot