General Music Chat

Oh yea, the publishing is often the main concern for a label who is interested in signing you. That's why it might not be a good idea for an indie to form a publishing company because it might give the impression you don't own the publishing.


The publishing rights are often the very thing you are negotiating with a label if you are successfully writing your own music. This is why many labels only sign the songwriters of a band/group. Even if they sign an artist who doesn't write their own material, they will almost always choose music for that artist from a publishing catalogue they own.

To own the publishing rights means that NO ONE, not even the artist and songwriter, can use the music without paying a royalty to the publisher, who is often the copyright administrator (in charge of dividing percentage for all owners involved) though there are many who use a third-party administrator like Bug Music.

The artist doesn't really pay anything while they are with the label but if they ever leave and want to re-record that song, they will pay for it like anyone else.

Now that is a good reason to get everything spelled out. I didn't realize you were talking about multiple owners of songs, or a band situation.

I use BMI because they have all tools online. They tend to pay the big stars better, while ASCAP seems to be more accurate with their reporting system. SESAC is geared more towards classical music and film scoring.

But as a member of a licensing society like BMI/ASCAP, the songwriter can state legally through their forms the percentages of ownership for a song. If they ever sign with a publishing/record company, they will be asked to forward the publishing rights to the new administrator.

Songs are divided as a 200% pie.

100% is publishing ownership and another 100% is songwriting ownership. Giving away 100% of publishing doesn't mean you won't own anything (assuming you are the songwriter) but it does mean that they own the right to give you permission to use the song now.

Why does that matter? Imagine you are signed to (insert major label here) and have a hit album, but new A&R comes in and you are let go. You can't press any songs on that album and sell them at gigs now. You have to buy your own music from your former label if you want to sell that music any more. They alone have the rights to press a CD or sell your songs if they are the publishing copyright holder.


Though I'm not a major artist, I was on a label distributed by Sony/BMG for almost 9 years before buying out my contract, and this scenario has been my dilemna. I recently recorded and released a new CD that I push at live gigs, but I still play the older songs that my fans know me for, and still have to buy those CDs from the former label. I make 10 times more profit on the new CD they don't own, but the older stuff is what gets me in the door.

Right... so... It is a band situation, with 3 different songwriters.
Should we form an LLC?

I went to the BMI site and printed off their "INSTRUCTIONS FOR COMPLETING THE PUBLISHER APPLICATION FORM".

Under 'PUBLISHER' through BMI you can list an Entity under which multiple people can sign on to.
So... I think that is what we want; 'Closer to Yod music', or some such umbrella name, where we can list who's to blame and what percentage of songs they own... and all that.

Of course there is a one time Fee for this, depending on LLC, Partnership, Sole Owner, etc.

I clicked on the 'Songwriter' button, and that's totally free, but from the looks of it I would only be able to sign myself up.
Everyone would have to do it individually going that route. (From what I "see")

It is prudent and very "non" pompous to be legally protected and set up as a business. Internet broadcasts are changing licensing laws every day and who knows where it will go in the future? For example, YouTube is now paying licensing too. If your music is legally licensed, you should receive a royalty for every time someone else plays it in a YouTube video.

I think it's prudent also. I think it is time to do it.

Now I know some of you fine people may not be feeling too well - maybe swooning a bit and feeling unsettled at the revelation that, in fact, I do NOT know everything.
It will all be ok though.

You can form a publishing company if you want, but again, it isn't necessary and it might appear to someone reading your label that the publishing is tied up.

if I were you, I'd get all the guys to join since it's free anyway. Then the main songwriter registers the songs and lists the percentages of ownership. It might be a nice touch if you guys all did it together so you can find out who is paranoid or greedy right away.

Then your song info just says "Song Title" by Mr A, Mr B, and Mr C (c) 2012 BMI (or ASCAP)

Actually some of you might go with ASCAP and the others with BMI. Just note that information on the credits.

The absence of publishing information instantly says that it's open and available for negotiating.




If the production costs of your product isn't an even split, then maybe form a publishing company because the person who took the risk should own the master publishing rights of the product they paid for. They would also bear the responsibility of dividing the royalties, producing statements, and paying co-writers.

Every situation is different so it doesn't hurt to work out at least a verbal agreement, witnessed by everyone, about who owns how much of what, if this is a collaborative effort. It could save a lot of problems in the future when you guys are the next big thing.

You can form a publishing company if you want, but again, it isn't necessary and it might appear to someone reading your label that the publishing is tied up.

if I were you, I'd get all the guys to join since it's free anyway. Then the main songwriter registers the songs and lists the percentages of ownership. It might be a nice touch if you guys all did it together so you can find out who is paranoid or greedy right away.

Then your song info just says "Song Title" by Mr A, Mr B, and Mr C (c) 2012 BMI (or ASCAP)

Actually some of you might go with ASCAP and the others with BMI. Just note that information on the credits.



The absence of publishing information instantly says that it's open and available for negotiating.




If the production costs of your product isn't an even split, then maybe form a publishing company because the person who took the risk should own the master publishing rights of the product they paid for. They would also bear the responsibility of dividing the royalties, producing statements, and paying co-writers.

Every situation is different so it doesn't hurt to work out at least a verbal agreement, witnessed by everyone, about who owns how much of what, if this is a collaborative effort. It could save a lot of problems in the future when you guys are the next big thing.

I still think all the aforementioned agencies are just more layers of cost sucking Payola... The artist, being that last guy in the equation to actually get paid.

One good Domain name, a merchant account and the only thing that remains is how much demand there is for one's own work... At 99 cents a pop, Many o parties can be fulfilled and many a coffee drinkers can be "edified" .. Seriously, Who needs a third party publisher or a label for that?

If you disagree with my assertion, don't take my word for it, here's some other unpaid non actors with testimonies:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201205 ... more.shtml

http://culturalliberty.org/blog/index.php?id=159

http://www.janisian.com/reading/internet.php

I haven't explored it but out of each $0.99 song sale on iTunes, how much goes to the artist/band?
It's a sliding scale on Amazon/CreateSpace (looks like they may move this service over to pay-for TuneCore at some point), $0.29/song, I think.

The point being: you're not going to get rich selling digital downloads unless you become the next Justin Beiber/Lada Gaga.

I haven't explored it but out of each $0.99 song sale on iTunes, how much goes to the artist/band?
It's a sliding scale on Amazon/CreateSpace (looks like they may move this service over to pay-for TuneCore at some point), $0.29/song, I think.

The point being: you're not going to get rich selling digital downloads unless you become the next Justin Beiber/Lada Gaga.

In Theory....If you Own your own Server, and register your own domain, You can reach out to the entire globe with your music.. Subject to no middleman rules ...And you can set up your own merchant account to handle the 99 cents downloads. (There are operating fees of course, i.e merch account) .

So, under this thoery, why bother with A & R, Labals, Promoters, Publishers? BOOM! just bitch-slappin a lot of greedy, no count huxters....

In Theory....If you Own your own Server, and register your own domain, You can reach out to the entire globe with your music.. Subject to no middleman rules ...And you can set up your own merchant account to handle the 99 cents downloads. (There are operating fees of course, i.e merch account) .

So, under this thoery, why bother with A & R, Labals, Promoters, Publishers? BOOM! just bitch-slappin a lot of greedy, no count huxters....

Because you've got to get people to YOUR site. People flock to places like iTunes and CDBaby for music, skipping around genres, etc. Despite my direct links on reverbnation to buy my songs, I haven't sold one that way since I started that profile.

Luckily, I don't record my songs to make money! I was just curious on how much of that $0.99 gets to the artist.