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#106545 by jw123
Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:33 pm
I really dont understand what tigers sexual habits have to do with the public.

I mean hes a golfer, so go play golf!

And I understand sponsors and such dropping him for his behaviour but why is the public in general so suprised? This guy is a gazillionaire, he is an attractive man, and he is a cheater, so whats the big deal?

And to blame an addiction, come on Tiger grow some balls!

Im sure all the sex rehad centers in the nation got a huge boost from Tiger, I mean everyman with any money that gets caught cheating will immediately say its not my fault I have a problem.

#106548 by CraigMaxim
Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:10 pm


He portrayed himself as a devoted family man. He branded that image as well, marketing it to the public and being paid well for it. The public saw him as a positive role model, not just in golf, but as a family man. You can blame the public for being gullible, but many people need heroes and role models, to pattern themselves after. I think it is healthy to elevate positive role models in life, otherwise, what are we left with?

There "ARE" good people out there... even famous, even wealthy beyond belief... who keep their word, and live honorably.

Tiger wasn't one of those.

It is a disappointment to many people.

If you live a LIE, the public will CRUSH YOU for it. But Americans are also very forgiving, when someone HUMBLES themselves and admits their errors, and works to rectify them. Tiger is BEGINNING that process, and the public welcomed him back warmly at Augusta in response.

Liars should not be respected any more than professional con artists.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIE!

There are PLENTY of Dennis Rodman's in the sports world. You can make a fortune, be famous, have as many women (or men) as you want, and not have the public turn on you, or even expect too much from you.

The key?

BE HONEST ABOUT YOURSELF!

That is why people were pissed. That is why he was the target of massive disdain. And all those reactions were perfectly VALID!

Tiger was the liar, the abuser, the cheater, the one breaking a family apart.

STOP excusing him.

He doesn't deserve it.

He HAD a choice, in not only how he lived his life, but how he portrayed his life, to his wife, and to the public!

Maybe some of you, are really trying to excuse YOUR OWN indiscretions in life? If so, your wrongs don't make Tiger right! ;-)

#106551 by KLUGMO
Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:55 pm
Listen you can wink all you want craig but he is a man. A weak man like all of us OH excuse me (maybe not you). You need to preach some forgiveness once in a while guy. Open your eyes and see that he is no different than a lot of men. He married, he cheated, he lied, who does that really describe? Over 50% of the people getting married now. I know about the idle for kids thing and what he represented but he is still just a guy. The difference is it was magnified with him. A lot of women, a lot of money, a lot of publicity. He had a lot farther to fall when it came crumbling down. Just forgive the guy and pray that now he knows what life is really all about. And while you are at it forgive the millions of other cheaters in this world and pray they learn from their mistakes. WOMEN TOO. Some people only learn from mistakes. We are all sinners even you. Let he without sin cast that first stone.

#106553 by ColorsFade
Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:27 pm
Yeah, really.

Isn't there enough judgment in this world already?

He made a mistake, and it's his problem. It sure as heck isn't mine.


A weak man like all of us


We're not all weak. I could write a book on this subject...

I'll just say (and the people who know me will tell you the same thing) I thought I displayed some super-human strength the past 7 years when I was in the tail end of a really bad, uncaring, loveless marriage. I kept my vows all the way to the end despite temptations.

Honor, trust, loyalty. Some of us guys have those qualities....

#106554 by Hayden King
Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:33 pm
aren't we all genetically "addicted" to sex?



"I know my sh*t stinks"


*

#106559 by KLUGMO
Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:58 pm
KUDOS COLORS

#106560 by CraigMaxim
Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:58 pm
KLUGMO wrote:
[b]Listen you can wink all you want craig but he is a man. A weak man like all of us OH excuse me (maybe not you).




I make my share of mistakes... not that one though.

And this goes WAY beyond weakness. Weakness is when you are having a tough time in your marriage, your wife seems like an enemy rather than your life partner, and your secretary just worships the ground you walk upon in comparison... and at the office New Year's Eve party, a little too much to drink... you end up at a motel or in the car with that secretary, rather than at home with your family.

THAT is a mistake... an incident of weakness.

Not when you regularly screw 12 to 15 other women in only 5 1/2 years of marriage. That is pathological narcissism. This is not about sex, as much as it is about Tiger's beliving he is a god of sorts. Who imagines they can be THAT famous, and have THAT MANY girlfriends spread around the country, and this will never get out? That is a MAJOR defect, not an indiscretion.


KLUGMO wrote:
You need to preach some forgiveness once in a while guy.



I'm a firm believer in FORGIVENESS.

Did I say otherwise?

You are confusing FORGIVING SOMEONE with EXCUSING THEM.

HUGE difference!

There is NO excuse for his behavior. To demean the value of CHARACTER merely ENCOURAGES more bad behavior... where we have a culture of EXCUSING inexcusable behavior.

Do you really believe that will benefit society?

I don't.

Was Tiger under pressure? So what? So are olympic athletes. So are men in war! Do some fold under such pressure? Of course. But many others act COURAGEOUSLY and HONORABLY under such pressure.

Pressure, or having an advantage in life, is NOT an excuse for immorality. And some here would use his fame as an EXCUSE for him, as if FAME makes it harder to keep your promises. On the contrary, there is all the more reason to KEEP your vows! Because you are under the WORLD'S SPOTLIGHT now... it is EVER PRESENT, that people and cameras are watching you.... that people are lurking and hoping to capitalize on your fame. You would think someone in that position, would put on a disguise and visit a prostitute in another country, if he couldn't keep it in his pants. But having GIRLFRIENDS? And not ONE but TWELVE????


Just understand, that I am not against FORGIVENESS, but instead, I am against the CASUAL EXCUSING of such behavior!

THAT IS WHAT I RESENT!

It makes the statement... "Don't worry, we can't control ourselves anyway. Let's not make a big deal out of breaking hearts and breaking families apart!"

#106561 by philbymon
Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:18 pm
Know what I resent? Self-righteous pious twits who think thier poop don't stink & seem to think they have all the answers for everyone & expect way too much from ppl, all while being a horrible example of thier faith, which they continually push on others, as they blithely point thier fingers a cry "SINNER" every time a subject comes up, or who have the gall to question other ppl's character in so many conversations that it's like a mantra to them, while they ignore one of the most basic tenents of thier own religion in the process as they continue to throw stones ad nauseum. And invariably, when you tell these types of ppl that you've had quite enough, thank you very much, they give you grief because they see themselves as being oh so very RIGHT all of the time that they can't see for the life of them how WRONG they really are...

But that's just me, I guess.

:roll:

It's become the American way, lately, though, as I look at my tv news programs...I suppose it goes back to our overly strict roots - you know - those ppl that were so indignantly & offensively self-righteous that they were tossed out of Europe cuz they couldn't stand them, either.

#106564 by CraigMaxim
Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:41 pm


Phil,

Why not try that again, huh?

Cause I have a hard time believing that you could be so irate over the basis of my comments, which are...

"BE HONEST"

Do you really disagree with that statement?

You are projecting your own SHAME onto me.

It's YOUR mistakes... accept them like men, and their consequences, and try to be more faithful to the next girl. If you doubt yourselves in being able to be faithful, then guess what...

DON'T COMMIT, only to ruin another person's life.

Do you feel that is bad advice or something?

#106568 by philbymon
Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:05 pm
Uh...Craig? Are you suggesting that I need to feel shame to make those statements? Sorry, bub, but I feel no shame.

I believe I was speaking in general terms, but it's rather insightful of you to see your own faults, if indeed they were listed above.

I see no real reason to "be honest" publicly about one's private life, myself, cuz it's no one else's business, after all is said & done. It is between the man & his wife & his mistresses & his Dr's & his god, & has nothing to do with you or me.

You can continue to make such wild claims of how his actions affect the millions of children who worship his celebrity, but you know what? If his personal failings weren't made such public knowledge, this would be a non-issue. That's exactly how things were handled back in the day, when kids COULD have ppl to look up to, without the poisonous pious assholes gumming everything up in the name of "honesty." It isn't "honesty," Craig. It's sensationalist bad journalism at work, here. But you go ahead & read up on all of your tabloids so you know what's REALLY going on, in the name of your "honesty," while you continue to show kids that there ARE no heroes, NO ONE to look up to, NO ONE TO RESPECT for thier hard work at becoming the very best.

I really think that your busybodiness has taken over your mind to the point that you don't care about other ppl, Craig, nor do you take into consideration what it does to a society when everyone gets up in arms over every little thing.

He's a guy. He ain't Jesus. He will never live up to your expectations of perfection in everyone in all things. STFU about it already, you self-centered, self-righteous prick. I get so tired of hearing you drone on & on about what's "right." You obviously have no respect for the privacy of others (why do they NEED privacy, if they have nothing to hide, right?), & no respect for ppl in general if you can continue to belittle & berate ppl left & right, in spite of the most basic points of the very religion that you push on us all the time. That makes you a hypocrite by any definition, & I'd really love for you to outgrow it, to develop some sort of forgiveness, understanding, & true love for your fellow man, but that seems to be beyond your capacity at the moment. I have hope for you, yet, or I wouldn't keep calling you out on it all the time, man. You really seem to enjoy ripping other ppl apart, sometimes, & talking about the very worst in us all in page after page of diatribes against ppl, myself included. Is there anyone you look up to (who doesn't act like you)? No one that I can look up to? Between you & the tabloids, I guess the answer to both questions is no.

Become that which you claim to be or stfu, cuz you're very far from it all, as you keep showing us.

#106588 by KLUGMO
Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:20 pm
Craig, you AND I have no idea the level of pressure that Tiger has grown up with and suffered with. I can guess though. First of all the Father. It is well known how he drilled Golf, Golf and everything Golf into his son. I believe this level of pressure throughout a childhood can in my opinion only turn out one of two ways. Tiger Woods or Eli Manning. Even naming your son Tiger says something about where the father was coming from. This kid grew up like that and then went on to high school with added pressure of trying to fit in. Then came college where I'm sure his Father really laid it on thick. He excelled at Golf there and probably suffered socially because to be as good as he was there he HAD to practice constantly. Having little to no social skills and a childhood that resembled Golf boot camp probably. He was then thrust into the PGA. I would imagine he had many handlers and publicists and representatives, agents and managers. Oh also many,many people representing the sponsors and making sure you have what you need and are treated like a king. Now almost instantly you have millions of dollars at your disposal. You are traveling all over the world Playing Golf and winning on National television. You are talked of as the heir to the thrown of Jack Nicholaus. All this time you are entertained in night clubs and casinos around the world. He was so unprepared for this it's not funny. There is so much that I am sure I cant imagine. None of us can relate to his life. You know some prominent people are encouraged to marry for image reasons. He was painted as a perfect clean-cut young man. What he did was wrong but looking at the whole picture one could understand how possibly it could happen. Understanding and forgiveness would go a long way here. His agents and managers and Father must share the guilt I believe.

#106612 by CraigMaxim
Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:40 am



We'll have to agree to disagree Klugmo.

My childhood was no joyride either. I grew up traveling on the road in my mother's band, separated from my family for over 6 years. The only stable thing in my life was writing to my grandmother on a regular basis, and getting mail back from her, when we played a place more than a few months at a time. Usually we played a few weeks to a month and moved on to the next town. I will never know what it is like to have childhood friends... I was an only child, so my cousins were like my brothers and sisters, and they were all stolen from me for 6 years. I was sexually abused a number of times before my step father came along, because I was a beautiful blonde haired, blue eyed boy, that adults and older kids seemed to love taking advantage of, along with threats that they would kill me if I ever told anyone. When my step father came along, I was never sexually abused again, but instead, he beat me black and blue pretty regularly. One time hitting me in the face so hard that it snapped my braces and several pieces of metal protruded through my lips and couldn't be fed back through. He left me like that for awhile, before deciding to take me to the dentist, to have them cut out. He bragged that to the dentist that he had taught me a really good lesson, and corrected my "attitude" through his necessary violence. He beat me so badly one day, that my entire face and neck, parts of my chest and back, were ALL black and blue.

But even though all those things happened to me, I never molested anyone. I never beat my step children. I never tried to separate them from their own family.

Being a child growing up in nightclubs, I had women throwing themselves at me constantly. 20 something, and 30 something year old women were always trying to get me in bed, even at 13 and 14 years old. I made out with a bunch of them, but I never had sex until I was 18. I had been taught it was wrong to have sex before marriage, and I bought into that belief system, though I had MULTITUDES of opportunities to break that committment.

Before that step father, when I was 10 or 11, my mother drove me down to Ft. Lauderdale, where I had never been in my life, to drop me off at my FIRST step-father's apartment... they were separated at the time, but he had agreed to watch me for the school year, so she could take a job in Louisville, KY. Only problem was, that she didn't want to see him when she dropped me off, so she just pointed out his apartment door to me, and told me to go knock on it... and then she drove off, before I got to his door.

My mother had left me with several other relatives for long periods of time... 6 months... 8 months... before all this, and I just got terrified, and decided that she was probably lying to me, and just getting rid of me for good this time!

I ran down the highway after her, running in the middle of the road, but she never saw me. I turned around in time, to see a semi-tractor trailer rig, slamming on his brakes, and stopping within feet of running over me. I ran around to the passenger door, and jumped in his rig, and told him that my mother had abandoned me, and asked if he could catch her... I showed him her car, by now a half mile down the road. He tried but couldn't catch her, and at some point, he realized that it looked pretty messed up, that he was a black truck driver, with a little white boy in his truck. He took me to a pollice station and told me to go tell them everything I had told him, and that they would find my mother or my step-father for me.

I did what he said.

When they interviewed me, they started asking what color the driver of the truck was. Even at 11 I knew this was not a normal question, when the truck driver had been the good guy! I told them he was white. :-)

Later on they did find my step father, who picked me up from the police station, with a belly full of the donuts the cops had given me (yes it's true... cops love donuts!)

Needless to say, that was a pretty traumatic experience. That driver could have easily been a murderer, who killed me and left on the side of the road somewhere.

There are plenty of other things that have been done to me throughout my life. But I NEVER cheated on my marriages, and I have lived life as an honest person, and tried to help others whenever I could. Enough bad has happened to me, that I could have been an evil person, wanting to take vengeance on the world. But my life will NEVER be an "excuse" for bad behavior. Once I am 18, it is MY CHOICE what I make out of my life... no one else's!

And however bad I had it, there are countless children in third world nations, being crippled in their hands, under forced labor, using their small hands to weave area rugs, for 16 hours a day, every day of their lives. There are others who are forced into slavery, forced into prostitution.... you name it.

Don't think for one moment, that ALL those people, choose to do evil, just because evil was done to them. People fored to endure brutal and horrible torture or other terrible circumstances have risen above their fates, and made something out of themselves... become succeful, become people of character and value.

Tiger's over-disciplined father and his attending of good colleges and then becoming a pro-golfer.... SERIOUSLY DUDE.... DO NOT EVER compare that, with REAL SUFFERING that many children... including myself, have endured!

I would have CHERISHED having an overbearing "father", but mine was not a part of my life, once my mother took me on the road, and when I finally was able to look for him myself, when I turned 18 and left the road, and we reconnected by phone... We talked about visiting each other in the coming weeks... but sadly, that was not to be...

He was murdered, only days after I found him again.

You think Tiger's life was any more difficult than mine?

AGAIN... STOP EXCUSING BAD AND IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR!

We CAN choose our own path, no matter what we started with!

Last edited by CraigMaxim on Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

#106613 by CraigMaxim
Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:46 am
philbymon wrote:
If his personal failings weren't made such public knowledge, this would be a non-issue. That's exactly how things were handled back in the day, when kids COULD have ppl to look up to, without the poisonous pious assholes gumming everything up in the name of "honesty."



What's being gummed up exactly?

That men could f*ck anything they wanted to, in the past, yet PRETEND to be decent, married, family men, and still get everyone's respect, because the TRUTH was kept secret for them?

Those were the days for sure!

Men also could still beat their wives, and cops would even let them, back then too!

Awesome!

Things were SO MUCH BETTER back then weren't they?

What amazes me, is why you fight so hard to defend making a committment in marriage, and breaking it, but expecting that it shouldn't interfere in that person's life.

You want to have your cake and eat it too.

Here's a thought...

Can't stop yourself from f*cking more than one woman on a regular basis? DON'T GET MARRIED DUMBASS!!!!!!!!

Are you too dense to get that little jewel of wisdom?

Last edited by CraigMaxim on Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

#106618 by CraigMaxim
Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:03 am
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/07/SPRN1CR5LF.DTL

Part of the opening remarks by Augusta National Chairman Billy Payne:

"As he (Tiger Woods) ascended in our rankings of the world's great golfers, he became an example to our kids that success is directly attributable to hard work and effort," Payne said. "But as he now says himself, he forgot in the process to remember that with fame and fortune comes responsibility, not invisibility.

"It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here - it is the fact he disappointed all of us, and more importantly, our kids and our grandkids. Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children.

"... His future will never again be measured only by his performance against par but by the sincerity of his efforts to change."

#106621 by Sir Jamsalot
Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:26 am
wow. you guys are all talking past each other. Neither side cares about Tiger's personal life. The stink is that he was portrayed in the public eye as pure - Mr. Brady, Mr. Cleaver, Andy Griffith with a golf-club.

The reason he's in the spot light is the same reason any Christian leader getting caught with a prostitute would get paraded - because of a perceived hypocrasy. Tiger's perceived hypocrasy is that he allowed himself to be branded as pure. Had he instead always shown up with a few girls under his arm, or always smoking a cigarrette, or some other vice out in the public, there wouldn't be halfe stink.

In summary - No one really cares about Tiger's personal life other than he's a celebrity with a great story-line. Some of the jokes are funny too.

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