General Music Chat

oh btw, in the picture of the mic'd amp - why are both mics on either side of one speaker instead of one on each?

Because that is typically where you're going to get the best tone from. Like I said earlier, I only know of one guy who intentionally mikes his amp by sticking an SM57 in the center of the cone, and that's Steve Stephens.

Usually you want it at an angle to the speaker edge. Both of those mikes in that picture are targeting the left speaker, and they're coming in at an angle. Hard to describe; those pictures do a pretty good job of showing how to set up the dynamic mikes.

The condenser mikes are usually placed center to the cone, away from the amp to gather in the longer frequencies. But again; you have to have a quiet place to do that sort of setup. Condenser mikes pick up a lot of ambient noise; even noise from television sets and junk in other rooms. But if you get the right kind of quiet place, all of those mikes together will produce a much more accurate representation of your amp sound.

didn't mean to make a fuss about this.

Both of your input (and pictures, thanks!) is very eye opening. I'll try to model my little hole in the wall studio after your advice.

oh btw, in the picture of the mic'd amp - why are both mics on either side of one speaker instead of one on each?

Thanks everyone.
Chris

Dude there is no fuss... people have different perspectives and experiences. I am sure that most recording engineers that have used sm57 mics would have different positionings.


But enough about me... here is a good article encompassing topics about recording at home and may answer your future questions:

http://www.kevinkemp.com/homerecordingt ... micing.htm

Im here to help Chris.

All I can say on this subject is that most direct outs on amps suck. Mic 'em! Try various methods until you get what you want.

my neighbors are going to hate me.

Holy crap Batman, now I am looking at four channels on my PA taken up by just my guitar.
Just kidding guys, this is all very interesting. Keep it up, just dont let it get to be another pissing match.

As much as I would like to get an accurate tone on stage, I mike my live rig with a single SM57. It works. Besides; in a stage setting you're just trying to make sure you sound good WITH the band. In a studio setting you're trying to get the best tone possible, and then mix it with the band. They are two different animals.

oh btw, in the picture of the mic'd amp - why are both mics on either side of one speaker instead of one on each?

Incidentally, this is why you will read and hear people tell you to move the mike around until you get a sound you're happy with. You have to experiment with placement.

Once you have a perfect place and you're happy with the tone, do yourself a favor and don't move anything in the room. Take a picture of the setup.

We've had trouble in the past getting the same tone day to day because of stuff getting moved around. When I record something, I like to have everything down rock solid so I can do as many takes as possible before a mike gets bumped...

I stick an SM 57 directly into the grill of the amp between the cone and the edge.

On the songs on my profile all the cover songs were done with a Mesa Subway Rocket 20 watt combo with an SM 57 stuck in the grill. We brought in all my amps and tryed angling mics double mics triple mics, every combination we could come up with on my Triple Rectifier and my Roadster. It just didnt sound that great. I had the little amp with me and we just threw a mic in front of it just to see what would happen and left it in this little closet while we did that recording. Funny I didnt touch the tone controls or anything. It sounds really warm to me even on these little computor speakers. I have an original song Ive Been Shown that is my big Mesa with a double mic setup. SM 57 in the grill and then a Condenser mic positioned about 9 ft from the cab. It sounds ok, nothing great I just threw it up for my home recorder.

I would never use a headphone out for recording. It is a whole different animal. If you have a speaker emulator out you might get a good sound. Recently Ive been using a POD PRO straight into the mixer board for recording. I think I put up the song Save the Last Dance, where I used a POD straight in.

Theres a lot of trial and error to micing amps. Ive never had any luck angling mics like demonstrated here, but some folks obviously get good results.

I had the little amp with me and we just threw a mic in front of it just to see what would happen and left it in this little closet while we did that recording. Funny I didnt touch the tone controls or anything. It sounds really warm to me even on these little computor speakers.

hehe I remember recording with a 15w Gorilla amp, cranking it to the max, and getting this awesome overdriven tone.

I have both an SM57, and an SM58, and to tell you the truth, I prefer the 58 for recording my amps. It seems fuller, and rounder in tone. I find the 57 has a very pronounced midrange coloration that tends to make every amp I record with it sound the same

Just picked up the SM 57 microphone today. Anxiously waiting to get home from work to start trying it out. I was afraid to try the 58 since I'm new to the recording scene and there seems to be a universal consensus on the site's I've visited that you can't go wrong with the 57 since it's a "studio staple".

thanks for all the valuable input on this thread. I'll chew on it a bit and see how I fare.

Chris

Let me know how it goes Chris, I was in the shop today looking at mics as well. Ended up just getting some more cables for the drum mic set.
7 drum mics take up a lot of room on the board.

George, For drums live we mic the kick, the snare, the hi-hat and then I found 2 little condensor mics that we hang over the drums for toms and cymbals. The only kicker is that these little mics require phantom power. So we only use 5 channels, as loud as we get sometimes in tight spaces too, having less mics just makes it all easier. When I ran sound a lot, I always noticed a lot of rumble off the bigger toms, and with a mic right in it you picked it up. We used to gate all the drums to eliminate all the extra noise.

Im sure drummers will chime in that all the drums need to be miced. I think that When The Levee Breaks by Zep was recorded with a couple of mics in a hall way.

The more techology we get, sometimes its hard to remember that less is more.

Back to recording guitars. I like to double track my guitars if possible. I try to leave the amp set up the same and use a Les Paul on one side and a Strat on the other to thicken things up. Another trick is to take the original guitar signal and send it thru a delay unit set for 10-20 ms of delay and pan the two signals. Makes the guitar sound bigger.

Good Luck, and really there are no rules. There are a lot of standards that work, but it doesnt mean that some wild idea you get for micing something wont work.

I was over at our bassist studio last night helping him set up guitar tones for a young band. We were having fits with this DSL Marshall amp. I just couldnt get it to do the trick without a distortion pedal. Andy reminded me that the last time I used my litte Mesa amp there that we actually layed it on its back on the floor. Its an open back combo, he said I did it to tighten it up for a 4x12 sound. Strangely it worked for our purposes. When I originally posted here I forgot that I layed it on its back.

Thanks for the input John, we had been just using the mic at the kick and two overhead condensors ( AA battery optional operation, got a lot less feedback than turning on the phantom)
This last show we did, Steve wanted to use the whole set. Cant say I blame him really. Anyway, I was one short on mic cables so I used the one off my mic and just run my amp off the Cab voiced out, into the PA.
So I have yet to play out with my amp mic'ed.
Next time, I'll be ready for em.

Here's a little trick for ya, Chris. Run your guitar straight into the mixer and from there to the recorder. Then run a send from an aux out to a distortion pedal and from there to an amp cranked up to get all the sustain that you want. When you record, you'll be getting the clean guitar signal, but you'll be getting it with lots of sustain. You can then go back and add whatever distortion or effects that you wish. Play around with it until you find THAT sound.
As for drums, I used to mic every drum, but a friend who had gone to recording school told me about overhead condenser mics used for the whole kit (except the kick), so now for live sound, I use a D112 on the kick, an SM57 on the snare, and an overhead condenser for the rest of the kit. Placement of the overhead will get whatever sound you want. Higher up picks up more cymbals while lower will pick up the snare and toms more. The reason I mic the snare separately is, I like to add a certain reverb to the snare apart from the rest of the kit.

I just want to say that mic'ing an amp isn't the only way to get a great guitar tone. Most of today's FX pedals/modulators come with a DI output with special settings for DI…that are specially meant to be hooked to a recording interface. A lot of ppl “trash talk” recording through DI, but you would be surprised on the amount of bands that are using this method to get the exact tone they are looking for. If you buy a Marshall amp, then you are stuck with the Marshall tone for all your recording projects…kinda boring to me. I like flexibility!!!

All my guitar recordings were accomplished with the Boss GT-3, feeding directly to my Firewire board. In total honesty, it takes me less time to mix my tone when recording through DI, than it takes with mic’ing an amp. The main reason is, it’s easier to control the noise and unwanted frequencies through a DI (personal opinion).

Now, keep in mind that I love Metal and Hard Rock, this may not apply to all genre of music

I know you're going to say you love your GT-3, but how do you like it? Is it everyhting you thought it would be after buying and playing with it a while?

I have its predesessor from the early 90's (gsp legend 21) and I liked that processor alot, though you can't really run it direct because it lacks the really stiff crunch - you need to rely on an amp and speakers to get that. It seems all the new processors are coming out in pedal form (POD, GT3), etc. Are you running your GT3 thru a rackmount amp or directly into a PA system? And the DI you speak about, you don't need anything between that and your computer's audio card (Firewire board withstanding).

thanks for your feedback. I'm seriously considering investing in one,
Chris

I just want to say that mic'ing an amp isn't the only way to get a great guitar tone. Most of today's FX pedals/modulators come with a DI output with special settings for DI…that are specially meant to be hooked to a recording interface. A lot of ppl “trash talk” recording through DI, but you would be surprised on the amount of bands that are using this method to get the exact tone they are looking for. If you buy a Marshall amp, then you are stuck with the Marshall tone for all your recording projects…kinda boring to me. I like flexibility!!!

All my guitar recordings were accomplished with the Boss GT-3, feeding directly to my Firewire board. In total honesty, it takes me less time to mix my tone when recording through DI, than it takes with mic’ing an amp. The main reason is, it’s easier to control the noise and unwanted frequencies through a DI (personal opinion).

Now, keep in mind that I love Metal and Hard Rock, this may not apply to all genre of music