General Music Chat

Ive found that fifths (Crown Royal) makes most songs tolerable for me.

I've found that 5ths work good in several rock songs.

Alan,

Concerning "those fat ol' jazz chords" ,allow me to relate a story.

It was back in the mid 60's, I was at home ,working out some song on the ol' farfisa organ, when into the room walked my long lost cousin, Mike, a top notch musician, had served in the navy band playing trumpet. Nudging me aside, he said, "let me show you a progression that will allow you to "fake" most any song"! I learned it and over the last 40 years I fooled many people into thinking I was a piano player!

HERE IT IS.....

(all root position) ascending... Cmaj7 ; Dm7 ; E flat dim ; Em7

descending... Edim7 ; Dm7 ; Ddim7 ; Cmaj7

The idea is to play these chords with your left hand and "pick out" the melody with your right. It works great for those old standards like "More","Girl from Ipanema" ,"The Christmas song","Dannyboy",ALL THAT JAZZ!

I thought it was time to "bump" this old dog of a thread of RythamMan's for the benefit of the newbies.

I was also wondering if any of you keyboard players ever got to noodle around with my cousin Mike's awesome "Jam out on any standard song in the world progression".

Don't be intimidated about it. It's easeyer to show somebody "side by side at the keyboard, but you can learn it just the same if you got a good "chord book" like "Robert Hartz's Essential Piano Chords". every composer, songwriter, player of any other instrument, at any level should acquire this book in my opinion.

Enjoy the read "newbies"

Howlin'

I've worked with ppl who named off gobs of chord names & expected me to just know everything...it was most frustrating, & seemed to be designed to let them brag about how much they knew about music...

It did make me learn how to relate - to THEM - but not to the average Joe.

As a bass player, I listen to the melody, & either try to give it a counter-point melody, or fit in smoothly & seamlessly. Rarely do I just play the roots.

As a guitar player, I've tried alternate tunings & came up with some intersting chords. After I do that, I usually figure out the individual notes, & try to rework them to play in standard tuning, mostly cuz alt tunings take up so much stage time.

I use a lot of add9, 7's, sharp 5's, dim, augs, & stuff these days, but I find that if I'm trying too hard to come up with interesting chords it just detracts from the overall melody, rather than make it better.

I find that 6ths work best in the slow stuff. One of mine is E6, then F#m to A6 to B6...sweet sound. Then the chorus goes A add9 then Bsus4 back to E6, twice.

One tune I had was just wierd, but it worked...all open chords

Cadd9, open, drop the 3rd fret of 2nd string to a C & open the D string (still a Cadd9), then on to C sharp 5 (holding 1st fret of 3rd string WITH the natural 5th on the 1st string), then lift both the 4th string to open, & the 1st string to the 1st fret (what chord is that? The notes are Cbass, D, G#, C, F - would that be a C#5 sus4 add 9? or Fm#6? Fmb7? See what I mean about naming chords? I just get tangled!)

It gives a droning C bass note throughout...nice dreamy sound.

Too much trouble to figure it out...LOL...I just play it & show it to ppl when they want to play it w/me. The chorus has a buncha droney chords, too, holding the high G throughout...the song is called Harmony, & with all the strange chords it's very difficult to find ppl who can actually SING the harmonies inherent in the chords...most challenging, but real fun when it works.

I wish I had a recording of it...hmm...back to my drummer's studio.

Best stick it up somewhere so I can hear..Loves a challenge me

The notes are Cbass, D, G#, C, F - would that be a C#5 sus4 add 9? or Fm#6? Fmb7? See what I mean about naming chords? I just get tangled!

"Cbass, D, G#, C, F ... "
really depends on the context but if I had to place a bet...

Cmajor -C D E F G A B C = 1 2(9) #5 1 11 = NO THIRD! not likely...

G#major -G# A# C C# D# F G G# = 3 b5 1 3 6(13) = G#DIM5/13

Dminor D E F G A B C D = 7 1 #11 7 3 = Dminor7 #11
(I'd put my money here)

Just listen for the chord tones that lead to where you want to go in the piece of music. Have any of you heard of "leading chords"? They make musical sense. In Jazz and Classical, these are tones within "chords" that eventually resolve into a root or tonic (unless the style is very "avant garde") I've found that if one lets one's preconceptions of what music should sound like interfere with what sounds good or musical or right, it stifles one's creative process and, therefore the result. If the 6th, 7th, 9th, or minor 2nd(dim7)? turns out to be the right sound for your vision, use it.

I agree, scarlet, but I also note that Paul Simon's "50 Ways" could have used fairly straight up chord structures, yet his use of all those odd-sounding jazz chords gave the song a certain air of mystery that would have been lacking otherwise...I think I need that Ted Green book

Thanks, mikev, for the info...next time I'm working with one of those musical brainiacs types, I'll tell 'em it's Dm7#11...that'll impress 'em...LOL...seriously, it's nice to at least have a name for it.

Lil miss Green-eyes, I'm gonna get in the studio to record a demo of it soon, then I'll post it....can't seem to get ahold of the drummer this morning....maybe I'll get to do it this weekend.

Thanks, mikev, for the info...next time I'm working with one of those musical brainiacs types, I'll tell 'em it's Dm7#11...that'll impress 'em...LOL...seriously, it's nice to at least have a name for it.

...my pleasure... I like to use my music degree for SOMETHING every once in a while.

wish I had real musical training or a mentor to better guide my limited knowledges, that and I haven't been able to break my hand into three fret chords where my fingers are on three different frets I'm sure I've stumbled across something that isn't a routine chord, but how do I know?!? enh any rate it would help if I had anything to put my bass style too, aside from the occasional session with some guitarist kid who is stuck in the 80's.......

I love 5ths and 6ths and 7ths. No honestly I do not use 9ths and further, yet.
I love using the 5ths and sometimesa 6th though and mor regularly, 7ths. I really love thsoe chords and when used with sublety they can really make a beautiful song!!

Love

As some have already stated, for a jazz musician, 6ths, 7ths and 9ths are common, as are the flat fives, flat nines, sharp 11s and so on. Anyone can learn to build a chord if they understand that the one through eight refer to your "do, re, mis" -- one being "do," two being "re," and so on. A nine is just a two an octave up. So when you build a triad (which is one, three, five -- the one being the "root" of the chord after which it is named) you can alter it by flatting the three a half step, which gives you a minor triad, or flatting the five a half step, which gives you a flat five chord. Flat both and you have a minor flat five chord, which is pretty and easy to play, as are many of the Jazz chords. In my experience, jazz chords are much easier to play then rock and roll bar chords once you learn the shapes.

That's my two bits as well.

Well...I kinda know that stuff but I find it helpful when it is spelled out the way you did and I have to think through it.

Talbot