General Music Chat

Irminsul said, ". . . If you truly want to go after a career in artist management/representation, your social skills are going to need a major overhaul . . ."
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Yep.
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I could use a manager to handle the stuff I don't want to or have time to deal with.
But, mainly for the above reason . . . sorry, muzickmage; not even slightly interested . . .

This is why I love these forums. The chats end up so far in left field the original topic is completely forgotten. Anyway.......

I would like to get this back on track and give my opinion and that is the definitions of a "Pro" musician.

Proffessional = Only source of income and how you support yourself.

Amateur = You play some gigs and make some money, but you still have a day job you can't quit.

Now where I fail to make the connection. If some one is a "Pro", why are they not getting paid? That is their lively hood, they get paid to play.

Yes, the attempt by the (insert non nightclub gig title) wants to get the musican to play for free, but it is at the discretion of the "Pro" to tell them to take hike. The "Pro" unlike the amatuer is in this position the way I see it.

The point I tried to make earlier is that a "Pro" is a "Pro" because their credentials command payment.

The amateur however is fortunate to get paid.

Listen people .... I came here in the beginning with good intentions ... and I treated people with respect ... but .... thats not how some of you like to treat others now is it.... so .... your getting what you give.... get used to it.

There are people in bandmix here who have some talent .... and I respect them and that talent..... people like Lady Rocker, Greenie, Wegman ... to just name a few. You'll notice when I talk to them .... I talk differently.

Then there's people in here who think they're "all that" ..... too big now to ask questions and admit they need assistance. They've done it all.... and they're the best now. They're arrogant... self-centered... and just plain annoying. Good example of that is irminsul.

I pretty much just toy with irminsul now ..... he's so predictable ..... type a couple of sentences and he goes off the deep end ..... lmao .... he's so funny. You want to get him going ..... lol.... mention putting a website together to offer different services than bandmix .... omg .... he goes bezerk...lol.

I gave up with trying to have a serious conversation in here.... too many people prefer to just argue the point instead of talk it out and see each other's views. You mention something thats not agreed with ... and all of a sudden you need PJs, your living with mommy... you mow the lawn to get spending money .... and a bunch more crap. Then they have the nerve to call "me" young.

If you want a serious conversation from me .... your going to have to email me .... for in here .... i'm just going to shoot the crap ... and make alot of noise..... and ...... have fun with irminsul... lol.

Sorry some of you have to be pre-maturely judgemental.

Well put Wegman. I too was a little confused about this thread. I know a few professional musicians; my friend David plays in 50 Amp Fuse (www.fiftyampfuse.com) and they play at the casinos, private parties, corporate events, restaurants and bars. He also teaches and does session work (he played bass on my second CD). He makes a nice living but I make more as a code jockey. I used to play music as a career back in the 80's but gave it up when I saw that it wouldn't support the lifestyle I'm used to. So right then and there I decided I would only do music as a hobby, and I've had a ball ever since. Very few people I know can claim to be a professional musician, and if you are most likely you're depending on someone else to make ends meet.

There has been alot of controversy about what the definition of "professional" is... in the sense of a preformer ... for years. Every group seems to have their own opinions.... and you really can't suggest that any one group is wrong. For the most part ... there really isn't any set rules or borderline to help determine when and if someone is now a professional ... or still an amateur.

What? Didn't you read this thread? It's pretty clear that a professional makes his living from it - period. It has nothing to do with how good you are. Sorry to be blunt.

muzickmage,

Since your taking a bit of a beating.......

You don't have to explain anything or defend your self to me. Say what ever you want. I may or may not agree, but you don't have to try to prove or disprove anything to me. I draw my own conclusions. Anyone else here, well your on your own.

As far as Irminsul, him and I got into at first untill I understood his thought processes. They are 180 degrees from mine, and hence the oil and water syndrome. Once I learned this, I now see him as a colleague whom I can perhaps learn something from, as opposed to an adversary trying take something away.

The point I tried to make earlier is that a "Pro" is a "Pro" because their credentials command payment. ....

Bob, we have a WINNER!!!! ding ding ding ding

Precisely put, and precisely the reason I wanted to address why, in so many areas, professional musicians are being asked to play for free more often than professionals of other fields are. The salient point is, they are pros. They are worth being paid if they are worth being petitioned for work.

Sorry some of you have to be pre-maturely judgemental.

HAHAHAA!

Absolutely U N R E A L.

What? Didn't you read this thread? It's pretty clear that a professional makes his living from it - period. It has nothing to do with how good you are. Sorry to be blunt.

Thank you. Perhaps 'mage will hear it coming from you. He doesn't seem to hear it from anyone else.

Thanks wegman .... but it doesn't look like i'm getting much of a beating ... some differences of opinion... and a little sarcasm maybe but thats it... but I knew that was going to happen as soon as I said......

"Your not a professional until your a household name"

Saying that to a bunch of musicians is just suicide lol. The last thing they wanted to be told is that they are not "professional" but rather "amateur" ... lol. I knew the topic board here was going to go a little chaotic as soon as I said that .... but ... its my opinion.

Saying that you are a professional at something just because you earn a living at it (for any period of time) is just ridiculous. I suppose if you earned a living packing shelves for the last 10 years you would also call yourself a Professional Shelf Packer. Hey... maybe those who cleaned bathrooms for the last few years are professional janitors too. Lets not forget those Professional Babysitters .... those 15 year olds who have been paid since their 13th birthday to look after kids.

Your thoughts on professionalism sound great when you use preforming music as its sole inheriter ... but when you use that same reasoning in other senses .... such as babysitters .... I mean c'mon.... it doesn't sound as logical to say that a 15 year old teenager is a Professional at looking after children just because she has earned money doing it. There are many people earning a living at doing different jobs ... jobs that some people have been doing for many years .... such as driving taxi ..... is there really such a thing as a "Professional Taxi Driver"?

geeeesh people .... what are you's thinking here.

Of course there are professional taxi drivers. I am a professional computer programmer. A teacher is a professional teacher. Is any of this getting through? There is no shame in saying you're an amateur, and there is no instant credibility in saying you're a professional. It just means you get paid to do it. My friend David is a professional musician but couldn't write a decent song to save his life. I'm an amateur and I've produced a fair amount of decent original music. Go figure.

Ok then ..... i'll join you all in your reasoning ..... every single person on earth who has a job ... regardless of what that job may be .... is a professional... because they earn a living at doing it.

I'm not sure who to consider amateurs anymore .... maybe the unemployed ... lol... but... ok. If you earn a living at doing it .... you win.. your a professional.

Well at least you can see the light, now just walk toward it....

Musikmage, what is your profession? Do you really manage musicians for a living? If so, I presume you have a domain name and website, as well as a professionally designed logo. Why don't you use it for your avatar? What is the link to your website? Who are some of the bands you handle? Not being a dick, just curious.

I just checked your site, no images, no audio, nothing on the calendar. I would suggest providing those things if you wish to be taken seriously.