General Music Chat

Craig before I deconstruct your last post I have to let you in on something: condescending to people who simply disagree with your view as "non brilliant" won't get you anywhere. It's a cheap tactic I did not expect from you. Try to keep this exchange adult, ok?

Also, you don't need to go prying too far into my closet for skeletons. I trot them out all the time. And sins? What sins? Since I don't believe in sin, that comment sort of rolled of the ol' back as the saying goes.

The anger leveled at the Bush Reich and its tentacles is not irrational in the least. It is entirely rational and justified. They have taken our nationa and rolled it in the dung between the tracks. They have trashed our constitution, trampled on some of our dearest principles, mocked the best parts of our system, put in place economic policies that have played a big part in our deteriorating economy, and made wars of aggression on people who never wronged us. You can't get much worse than that, so let's not have any handwringing for the way some of us react.

And to boot, there is no evidence whatsoever that just because we have not had another domestic attack on home soil since 2001, that BushCo stopped anything at all. For all you know, they are still planning a biggie. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. So no, I won't credit him with something that cannot even be proven.

As for the charges I leveled against Condasleeza Reich, for which you wanted to see a source, here it is. It's from reporter Scot Paltrow, who writes for that well known leftwing rag THE WALLSTREET JOURNAL -

"In the aftermath of those attacks, Bush administration officials have said they received no intelligence warning of such a tactic. "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon, that they would try to use an airplane as a missile," National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said in a May 2002 news briefing.

Yet on several occasions starting in the mid-1990s, U.S. intelligence agencies had passed on information concerning such a possibility, including early plans by al Qaeda officials to use passenger jets as kamikaze weapons, according to records and current and former government officials."
whole article here
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB107991342102561383.html

Condasleeza is perfect fit for her boss's regime...dishonest, shifty, quick with the tongue but short on facts and the truth. I look forward to her retirement from public life after January 2009.

finally we get to some serious issues. this election (to me) is not about what happened orwhat someone did ....it's about things that need to happen in the future. like...i refuse to lose my (and my son and daughter
's) civil liberties because of fear..i believe we need to talk to the leaders of these extremist countries.(hell, reagan talked to gorbachove(not sure of spelling)..we need to figure them out. we will not do that with bullets. man they got virgins waiting for them in heaven.....LOL.We need to give the responsaility of peace in iraq to the iraqies .....with out abandoning them ..you know they refuse to let us put a base in iraq? .....great way to honor the fallen men and women who our fighting for them? we need to make our dollar stronger..ex..trade deficate...thank you BUSH...we neeed more money for our teachers and we need to keep MUSIC AND ARTS IN SCHOOLS.If it wasn't for bill we'd all be dinosaures.....swe need to help our poor and middle classes....trickle down does not work! Thank you reagan and bushes........(200.oo for a hammer ...great way of spending our money )...our veterans are dying because of neglect from our republican government...good ole bush."they know what they signed up for".. i would go on but my daughter is puking on me..she's four months old. i'm typing one handed....so far i'm dancing with the idea of obama. he's forty something came from a broken home and has kept his nose clean for forty something years. thats outstanding...but i need to see some more debates..craig i can tell you are a conservative amongst us liberals ...more power to ya...you won't win.scratch that...you can't win ..this is what we have to do...we need change fast....

But ILLEGAL ALIENS are stealling us blind. I could go on and on Mcain is not a hero in my book.

First off, on the "posting from prison" thing. I hear ya brother. No doubt, I would have been to. Sorry for the trashing of your blazer. That sucks.

But I disagree. McCain says protecting the borders is the PRIMARY first step in dealing with not just illegals, but helping avoid terrorists bringing weapons in here. Although, more likely is stuff like that coming into our ports, possibly, where I think I have heard that only 5% is checked. Perhaps though, there is uranium sniffing equiptment there, and makes that scenario less likely? Not sure. Nevertheless, McCain says the border is top priority, and coming from a border state, Arizona, I believe he is sincere.

Illegals destroying our economy? That is a complete myth. The government has overlooked, for the most part, illegals coming in here PRECISELY for the opposite reason. That they are GOOD for the economy. Do illegals use Emergency room services? Of course. But so too, do MILLIONS of them use fake social security cards to get jobs here, but guess what? When it comes to passing out the benefits from them having paid all those taxes into the system, which employers deducted automatically from them, the government says "Mr. Rodriguez, we cannot match this social security number in our system. You need to provide the correct social security number..." or however those letters go.

The fact is, that MILLIONS of illegals pay into the system through taxes, and do not receive one red cent back in over-payed taxes, or refunds or social sercurity payments or medicaid. That is BILLIONS of dollars paid into the system, with not one penny in benefits paid back to those that paid into it. Trust me, before 9-11, the government was all too happy to receive BILLIONS in free money from illegals, that is kept by the government and NEVER paid back in actual benefits.

So it works both ways. Yes they get medical care through emergency rooms, but this is definitely offset by the BILLIONS paid by them through taxes, that they will never see back.

McCain is a hero, because of the manner in which he served our country. I expect disrespectful youth, who have no clue about what sacrifice and struggle is, to disregard that service. But not mature adults.

Even Obama recognizes this and pays respect to McCain for his service to our country, before calling him "stubborn" on his support of the war in Iraq.

Wow, I see doomsday coming up here.

Okay, people, people, come on, sh... I am 19 years old and I know better than to outright attack someone for their views (Unless they attack me, like, "You are stupid," then I react).

Come on, as I have said before, let us keep this on a mature level of discussion. We are all intelligent beings, I am sure we capable of this much.

RhythmMan, you are smarter than I am, stick to the music, this stuff is designed to eat at the soul... Which by the end of this conversation I will not have one of those.

Alright, my view:

I outright agree with Irminsul. Hands down. I am a conspiracy theorist who has studied 9/11 to an extreme point. First off, that atrocity was not only caused by planes in my judgment, but by some kind of bombs that were planted in the building as well.

A Professor from Berkeley (I believe it was) said it that it was impossible for the plane to have brought it down single handedly. I agree with that.

Something is wrong with that whole horrible day. Things do not add up.

First off, these lovely people Republicans love to defend, like Rice for instance are the same people who never stopped it.

The true story is that the Israeli Mossad was in Egypt and they stumbled upon the plot somehow over there. It was then told to Germany's intelligence agency, who then relayed it to us just weeks before that tragic day. In turn, what did we do, we ignored it.

Irminsul is right, we knew there was a possibility because years before we had been warned of them trying a tactic that involved planes. Ramzi Yusef was on a plane with an FBI investigator, they were flying him I believe to a maximum security prison, and he looked out the window at, I think it was, New York or Washington (I do not recall, sorry). He said "I am going to destroy that one day." Well, he was right, maybe he himself did not destroy it, but his people did.

There is severe evil in this world and I sometimes really believe our country did it themselves. Something does not add up about that day, period. Let me tell you something else fascinating.

These planes were reported hijacked long before they struck, it was reported to a air force military guard up North, they were so stupid they were like "Is this a test commander?" The commander freaked out and was like, "No, this is real! This is not a drill!" Well, by the time they got to it it was too freaking late. Then not only did they screw that up but when told to send planes to intercept a jetliner nearing the Capitol, they sent their planes 90 miles away from where it was, they gave them the wrong directions... Some brilliant people in this country (Sarcasm).

So, as Irminsul said, f*ck Bush, and his people. I do not really have anything against Condi', but she is stupid, just a nothing, just sits there and does crap. She is a useless tool in the axis of evil, who is also a flip flopper like Tony Snow, and like the evilest man, Carl Rove (No one dare bring him up, I will lunge like a tiger). That whole entire place is corrupt, they change the law, they do not listen to the Congress, and no one can stop them because the Republicans of this day an age are wimpy morons who do junk for themselves and not the people. So until a nice Republican comes along, I am not fond of them, period. The only one I like is Senator Hagel, at least he has the guts to say it like it is.

I know a ton about 9/11 and the theories behind it, I have watched many documentaries, read many of articles, and studied this very hard. Something does not add up.

Irminsul is right again about the 6 year crap. So what, man. 6 years... Wow, genius, isn't he? He only had the CIA, NSA, and FBI do their jobs. It does not take a genius to do that, now does it? It is true, they could be planning an attack so big that it would crack all of us. So no, I give Bush no credit. I think he did react in a good amount of time to Afghanistan after 9/11 though, but that is about it. He deserves nothing, except maybe impeachment and some more humiliation in the public eye.

I welcome any of you to defend Bush or his cabinet, this 19 year old will be here any day to fight you tooth and nail on that. I know just as much as all of you on this subject, I studied it very hard. Sorry if I am coming off a bit cocky, but I am not afraid of this subject since I know it so well. If I do not know something, please enlighten me so I do. Then I will take it into my own hands to do the research.

The more learning the better, right?

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.


EDIT:

Hey, hold up there Craig, "Disrespectful youth?" I understand what he endured, I just do not like his policy. You are right on the part I do not respect him as a whole, but I respect the sacrifice he made for his country. Just like I respect the military over there suffering and dying for us right now.

I have a right to disagree with his philosophy without disrespecting the service he has done for this country. You know it and I know it.

911 is what it is..bad people doing bad things. i disagre with conspiracy thoerists...God bless men like mccain but i won't vote for him....Our youth should not die for oil..... if you reaally wanted to end everything you could just wipe that part of the planet clean.....But of course that wouldn't be all of them so what US city would we have to wipe out....You see we will not win with war...only with diplomacy, education and the ole mighty capitalistic way.........i would actually want to find a traditional Iraq drum (not a dumbec) and buy it....Hmm interesting the trade of culture. it changed the world before with the renisannce it would do it again in the middle east... Imagine ( John Lennon said it best.......)If we actually gave the middle eastern culters a viable Value(only word i can think of). They would change and so would we. NO WAR NO WAR NO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

craig i can tell you are a conservative amongst us liberals ...more power to ya...you won't win.scratch that...you can't win ..this is what we have to do...we need change fast....

I don't see any of us winning sh*t, no matter who among the field holds that office. For the reasons laid out previously, I cannot in good conscience abandon the war in Iraq. We allowed hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese to perish after abandoning them amongst promises to the contrary. We abandoned the rebels to die on the beaches of Cuba, after promising them air support. We abandoned the Kurds in the first go around with Iraq, who were then mudered by Sadaam, AFTER promising them we would support their overthrowing Sadaam.

Too many times, to the shame of our nation, we have set up people seeking to overthrow communist or dictatorial regimes, only to back out of our promise, and let them be tortured and murdered while we moved on to something new.

Leaders of BOTH parties are guilty of this throughout history. And it is sickening.

Give me a Democrat that is not going to repeat that mistake, and will help the economy (clue: raising taxes achieves the opposite effect) and I will gladly vote for him or her. I am not a blind party loyalist. I'm all grown up.

God bless men like mccain but i won't vote for him....

I understand. If it's sincere, thanks at least for honoring his heroism for the sake of our country.

In another post I said that we promised the Kurds air support in taking over Sadaam's government. We didn't give it to them. They were the ones willing to march all the way into Baghdad at the time and take Sadaam out. We told them we would support them, then left them to die when Sadaam's airpower destroyed them.

Just think if we would have kept our word at THAT time? It would not have been american soldiers marching into baghdad. But we didn't keep our word. Guess what? Years later, we are right back again, to do what could have been done then. So forgive me if I have the belief that doing this right the first time, is preferrable to f**k'ing around everywhere little by little, only to have us back in the samn damn position we were in 5 or 10 years before. If we leave Iraq, WE WILL be back, because history finds this to be true. Problems left unsolved, rear their angry heads again. New divisions to our country. New budget battles. A new persident to hate for it.

Cut and run?

I can't buy into the supposedly EASY way out.

Easy is NEVER easy.

We'll be back again, if we don't see it through NOW!

^Burn! *He shakes his hand in as if it is on fire.*

Peace out, the demonic, GuitarAnatomy.

see i think that you are not seeing the forest for the trees....we have kept our promise to them they have not to us...where is there solidarity against radical islamic gang leaders. hell alsadr has a saet in their cabinet... hamas runs palistine.. lebenon sent missile to isreal. kadafi runs lebenon still and he is no friend and of course saudi arabia has not loosened it's grip on our nuts since we got into the middle east in 91(i believe the first gulf war...) they hate our presence there. our mititary is just another militia in there eyes..but it gives them the righjt to put us in the same regard as nazi's . the japonese(same time period)? hell they call us imperialists they do not deserve our presence.. they need to stand up for us in a big way if they want us to stay. they won't.....now i do believ its not their fault. they probably cannot grasp the idea of democracy. they have been ruled for centuries....... lets do something different it might just be the right move........power to the people not the armies......educate to vindicate...culture not war .. music for the soul......lets give them a real chance at LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. Education, literacy. equality representation. thats our version of democracy. why do we have to force it on them..Lenin(not John) believed marx. force it through a revolution and eventually people will rule themselves. it didn't work out that way. power stayed with those who were in charge...so why would it be different in a democracy that is forced on a peoples......we do not know if thats best for themmlike you said CRAIG we've messed up plenty what is different now? the fight. the reason, the people that want change.... it's all the same story that has been thru out time. history has shown that few democracies have survived. USA is a gem in history and we are a different breed......... we don't know if this is right for them. we need to give them a chance for what they want......

I outright agree with Irminsul. Hands down. I am a conspiracy theorist who has studied 9/11 to an extreme point. First off, that atrocity was not only caused by planes in my judgment, but by some kind of bombs that were planted in the building as well.

LMAO!

Why am I not surprised you would believe something so ludicrous.

Bill Clinton has said publicly that to believe the conspiracy theories on this is foolishness, and untrue.

Was Bill in on it to?

We can't come together over politics, Conservatives and Liberals, but they suddenly can agree on murdering thousands of our own citizens.

Go look in the mirror and say that again, and tell me you could keep a straight face this time.

That irrational reasoning, is EXACTLY what makes logic go to hell, and creates some surrealistic replay of Orson Welles "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast that had misguided, but BELIEVING citizens arming themselves and running for the hills before the aliens came to their town.

Wasn't it me, who is supposed to be living in fear and isn't it MY reasoning capacity that has become irrational? LOL

Does Irminsul really believe that?

He should be embarrassed.

OMG! LOL

Yes, Irminsul as pied piper. You sure can pick 'em. He'll lead you straight to the looney bin with irrational beliefs such as that (if he truly believes such nonsense), but admittedly, the trip will be very stylish I'm sure. Flamboyance to the rescue. LOL (I can't breathe, Ha ha)

Please don't forget to write.

LMAO!

The difference between you and I Craig is that I did the research. Now it is your turn. Go look it up and analyze it carefully, very.

I agree with Irminsul, why? Not just because he said it, but because I did my research. Something is missing, completely. Something is very off and very wrong with that whole day.

This administration is useless and corrupt, I think it would not even shock me to find out they did it. I would just laugh, it would be another mockery of justice on their behalf.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

Sorry if I am coming off a bit cocky, but I am not afraid of this subject since I know it so well. If I do not know something, please enlighten me so I do. Then I will take it into my own hands to do the research.

Ok...


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 27842.html


Oh wait....

I want it acknowledged that I CAN make short posts!

IT 'LL BE ALRIGHT CRAIG US LIBERALS DON'T WANT YOU TO DIE FOR OIL..WE'LL LET YOU COME HOME SO WE CAN CAN TREAT YOU LIKE A HUMAN BEING NOT A NUMBER.......OH AND BY THE WAY THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING A CONSPIRACY THEORIST THAT MAKES TWO OF US.......BAD PEOPLE DOING BAD THINGS............................................

"All this I have seen, and applied my mind to every deed that has been done under the sun, wherein a man has exercised authority over another man to his hurt." - King Solomon