General Music Chat

I realize that we are living in a constantly and ever growing sterilized platform, but mistakes? Do you make them and are they allowed within your music?

Mistakes:

If you make them do you rectify them so that no one can find them through the use of many tools in recording or are you a human being who's soul purpose is to expound your philosophy through your music using every tool available with just your knowledge?

How many types of Musician are there anyway?

Someone on a street can tell you a story, is he a writer or a poet, a song writer?

The Meld is large.

Where are you in all of this?

Do you leave them in or cover all tracks. (PUN!)

Cheers.

Chippy

Technically, if it is a "mistake" then it's got to come out (hence the term, "mistake"). Either via another take or a tool (I prefer another take; I like knowing I played it correctly and it wasn't software magic).

Because the whole point of an album recording is to capture the song, not so much the performance. A "live" album is different - now you're capturing a "performance".

Think of it this way: suppose Motzart left a "mistake" in a song. Two hundred years later people would still be playing the "mistake" thinking they were actually playing the correct note.

TO MANY QUESTIONS..... THE ANSWER IS NO!
At least to some of them. You figure out wich , and let us know .
Thanx CHIPPY,,,,,YOUR THE BEST!

Mistakes:

Are they allowed in my music?

Well, hummmm I would have to say that at this point in my musical life that I dont have much choice.

I am going to make mistakes, as are the other members of our band.
Anyone whom has taken time to listen to our home recordings and live shows will know this already.

Would I like to play every song and every gig mistake free?
Yes, but to be sterile. No variations allowed in tempo, same exact notes for each and every lead. No I dont believe that would allow room for growth of me as a musician, nor the evolution of our music as a whole.

When we get into the studio I would like a good representation of our
sound.
Would I want to use all the technology available in order to make the songs perfect or sterile. Today I would say no. Tomorrow?

Hi Colors.

Yeah I know your right. I was more talking about timing I suppose, differences in technique on guitar, a shade lower in tone than were you thought it would be? How far would you go?

MOTZART!
Gee I hope I'm wrong in saying this because I love classical music.

From what I've heard and including myself there are no Motzarts here on this forum. Perhaps that will change, I hope so too so they can come tell us where the main beam is?

Talented musicians yes. But when you listen to someone's else's music are you looking at talent or what they did in the studio? For me? I'm trying to emulate a live scene on a virtual canvas. May work, may not. This includes mistakes just so I qualify that.

Thanks Colors!

Thank you!
Sans!

Exactly. If a record is recorded in a form anything other than LIVE it's a waste of everyone's time (In My View).

giongi2 Your trouble

Would I like to play every song and every gig mistake free? Yes, but to be sterile. No variations allowed in tempo, same exact notes for each and every lead. No I dont believe that would allow room for growth of me as a musician, nor the evolution of our music as a whole.

I think the answer must be yes.... cause "Jimmy" had a guitar so out of tune that I can hardly (actually I can't) stand it and his live performances were riddled with string noise from "sloppy" transitions etc...

Hes concidered a genius .. So if you can make enough "new" mistakes I think your good to go...

LOL

X!

Thank you!
Sans!

Exactly. If a record is recorded in a form anything other than LIVE it's a waste of everyone's time (In My View).

giongi2 Your trouble

Would I like to play every song and every gig mistake free? Yes, but to be sterile. No variations allowed in tempo, same exact notes for each and every lead. No I dont believe that would allow room for growth of me as a musician, nor the evolution of our music as a whole.

Wow, I guess the Boston album was a waist of time huh

So a Studio Recording Engineer is not part of the art form process?

How many over dubs were done on The Dark Side Of The Moon, not to point out the racks and racks of outboard processors to change the sound goin' in to something different goin' out.

I am gonna go out now and burn the White Album.

Thank you!
Sans!

Exactly. If a record is recorded in a form anything other than LIVE it's a waste of everyone's time (In My View).

giongi2 Your trouble

Oh Come on RGM!
I've got a lot of respect for you and your stuff and that's the truth. Besides you are a drumer like me.

I just take issues with the ever and ongoing after process.
You write a song on guitar, it goes to rehab to mend mistakes, then there is a re-cut, some flowers added, and then some further embellishments.

I use my VERY SMALL studio for mood and mood only. I'm getting used to 'takes'. But you know what? If it sounds good then let it be.

By the way RGM. You asked before if I would listen again? Yes I would and did. Your stuff is very good. Wish we were nearer so we could "Drum Jam". Is that a phrase?

Keep well, be well.

Chippy

Would I like to play every song and every gig mistake free? Yes, but to be sterile. No variations allowed in tempo, same exact notes for each and every lead. No I dont believe that would allow room for growth of me as a musician, nor the evolution of our music as a whole.

Wow, I guess the Boston album was a waist of time huh

So a Studio Recording Engineer is not part of the art form process?

How many over dubs were done on The Dark Side Of The Moon, not to point out the racks and racks of outboard processors to change the sound goin' in to something different goin' out.

I am gonna go out now and burn the White Album.

I was talking about "my" music. If you do burn your WHITE ALBUM dont inhale just like slick willie.
If you will read Chippys original topic it was asking an opinion on "our" music.
That has nothing to do with Boston, The Beatles, or Pink Floyd.
If you wish to have a studio engineer create your entire album for you, well thats all fine and good. If it sounds good I would probably buy it and listen to it as well.
That is not what I would want him to do for me.
Some of my favorite albums were recorded live. Does not make it better or worse IMO. Just different.

Oh Come on RGM!
I've got a lot of respect for you and your stuff and that's the truth. Besides you are a drumer like me.

Not really, you do have more hair than I do

I just take issues with the ever and ongoing after process.
You write a song on guitar, it goes to rehab to mend mistakes, then there is a re-cut, some flowers added, and then some further embellishments.

I own a lot of Rush music and I got to go to a Rush Concert. I find it very hard to listen to those studio albums after the live show.

I use my VERY SMALL studio for mood and mood only. I'm getting used to 'takes'. But you know what? If it sounds good then let it be.

I set up my drums on a hill top in Texas one day in August to set a mood. It was breeding season for the Rattle Snakes. I started to jam and the whole hill side around me started to move. I wish they had Depends back then.

By the way RGM. You asked before if I would listen again? Yes I would and did. Your stuff is very good. Wish we were nearer so we could "Drum Jam". Is that a phrase?

cool!

Keep well, be well.

Chippy

ditto

You too RGM.
Great post. YOU ARE A DRUMMER!

When a drummer modulates the tempo a bit (which some do if they don't play with a click track), I don't consider that a mistake. That's just human. But wrong notes on the bass, guitar or keyboard should be redone if it's a studio project. Wrong notes can take away from the music. As far as touching it up with software, I don't know, I've never done it. If it's just one or two wrong notes, I don't see any problem with using software if it comes out sounding right. Using software to make all the BPMs perfect is taking away the humanism of the song IMO. I leave mistakes in my recordings if they don't stand out too much, and lot's of times other people don't even notice them. That doesn't mean I didn't do several takes to get exactly what I wanted down. By the way, I don't think the Beatles used Pro Tools on the White Album.

I think when a group goes to record it usually is up to the the person paying for the recording or producer to say what should remain and what should not. In 1996 a band I was in went in to record an album we spent 120 hrs in the studio tracking and creating it was one of the greatest times of my life. The Engineer and Producer told us on day one we are going to get it right and this fix it in the mix doesn't fly with us. So we had to make sure we new the music inside and out as to reduce the mistakes we had to fix, thus wasting precious studio time. Now days times are kind of going back to the way they used to be when bands like Tom Sholtz and Boston would record an incredible album in they're basement because of the advent of digital and computer recording. That makes it kind of neat you can relax and forget about how much money you are going to spend in a $200.00 an hr. studio because you don't have that pressure you are recording at home and that is a much more condusive atmosphere to create in. I have to have lots of clocks in my home studio because it is nothing for me to go in there and start creating and look up at the clock and 12 hours have passed. Anyway when we recorded that album their is not one single sound on there that we didn't want on the album and I think at least that is the way it should be when you are recording. As far as a live performance goes it is very rarely that you play everything from memory to perfection someone is going to make a mistake, but when a band plays well together they cover for one another and you don't hear the mistakes and thats the way it should be IMHO.

Hi Colors.

Yeah I know your right. I was more talking about timing I suppose, differences in technique on guitar, a shade lower in tone than were you thought it would be? How far would you go?

I generally like to get things right. I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist, but I lean that way. If I was making a record I'd want to get it as close as possible to what I consider perfect. But like all things, you reach a point of diminishing returns. If I can spend 15 minutes tweaking tone and get myself 90% of the way to what I think is right, that's time well spent. But if I spend an hour tweaking tone and only make a 2% improvement, that's not time well spent. There's a balance there.

As far as timing - that's what metronomes are for. There's really no excuse, on a non-live recording to have bad timing.

MOTZART!
Gee I hope I'm wrong in saying this because I love classical music.

From what I've heard and including myself there are no Motzarts here on this forum. Perhaps that will change, I hope so too so they can come tell us where the main beam is?

Talented musicians yes. But when you listen to someone's else's music are you looking at talent or what they did in the studio? For me? I'm trying to emulate a live scene on a virtual canvas. May work, may not. This includes mistakes just so I qualify that.

Thanks Colors!

I wasn't using Motzart as an analogy to the talent of the people on this board. I was using it as a measurement of endurance. Motzart's music has endured since he wrote it. That's a long time to retain a "mistake" if you make one.

These days you press an album - and that becomes your lasting, permanent mark. Once it hits the shelves that's it - it's there for all time. So I think you have to take that into consideration. An album is your permanent record; best to get the mistakes removed one way or another.