General Music Chat

'Splain again to me how we are so unfair to corporations in this country, & how they're so overtaxed....after you read this.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Ta ... n-ges.aspx

Phil,I didn't say ,just corps were overtaxed. I said everyone is, at all levels, local and state. Thats you and me.
It is REAGONOMICS in reverse.
The only reason why I give a rats ash about a corp like GE is the people that work for that corp.
Without the taxes they pay DOWN THE LINE, times ,who knows what, I DON'T know.
You got a better solution?

Supply Side Economics is just "common sense".

Why anyone thinks overtaxing solves ANY problem, is amazing to me.

Want more money for the government? Stay out of the way of businesses and entrepaneurs and let them grow a BIGGER PIE to take the piece out of. You take larger pieces out of a smaller pie instead, and you ruin us all.

One view ruins wealth... the other helps create it.

Craig ,thankyou, this is as simple as taking your hand off a hot stove so you don't get burned.
43% don't pay fed taxes, aint that wonderfull.
EVERY TIME WE BUY A BOX OF 35 cent cereal for 5 bucks, WE are paying all the taxes that just got passed on down the line.THIS INCLUDES THE POOREST.
If you just want to tax general mills out of business,,, Then nobody eats.
TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS in reverse,,, VERY SCARY.

Day-yum, guys! Did either of you READ the article?

Lemme give it to ya in a nutshell - GE, that hugely big corp what owns NBC, & medical stuff, & 'lectrical stuff. & lots of other stuff, PAYS ZERO TAXES, boys!

EXXON, 'nudder huge corp, pays all of its taxes OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY - NOT ONE THIN DIME COMES FROM EXXON TO THE US COFFERS IN TAXES!

Duh...& this is okay with you two? What are ya, corporate shills or lobbyists or something? Exxon made the most profit in '09, but won't pay ANYTHING into the system that made it all possible. Yep, Rockefeller would be proud.

I must really be stupid, cuz I can't see the advantage of this crap, gentlemen. Now the American corp has MORE rights than I, & they don't even have to pay taxes for those rights? BULLSPIT!

Day-yum, guys! Did either of you READ the article?

No, I didn't read it yet.

But I promise, I'm going to do so.

Lemme give it to ya in a nutshell - GE, that hugely big corp what owns NBC, & medical stuff, & 'lectrical stuff. & lots of other stuff, PAYS ZERO TAXES, boys!

I'll have to read your article, but I am sure that is not true. Maybe they are talking about one SPECIFIC type of taxes, like corporate taxes. But businesses HAVE become experts at taking advantage of loopholes, etc... to get around many taxes.

I must really be stupid, cuz I can't see the advantage of this crap, gentlemen. Now the American corp has MORE rights than I, & they don't even have to pay taxes for those rights? BULLSPIT!

Well, I believe what you say... that YOU don't understand the advantages of providing a favorable environment to businesses.... particularly major ones, but trust me... there are MANY NUMEROUS advantages.

Even if the company did not pay one thin dime in corporate taxes, the company acts in effect, as an unpaid government employee, as a collector of SALES TAXES for everything sold through their stores or businesses. This results in HUGE REVENUES for the government, all of which MUST, BY LAW, be deposited in government bank accounts directly, each month, as they are collected. However, it is the business, that bears the risk of the expense, to purchase the original products for resale and then to store them, price them, sell them, record the transactions, and account for them, and then bring the government's share to the bank. Additionally, sales tax must be collected by the business, even if the company makes no profit on the sale. It is a tax on the SALE itself and not on the PROFIT only.

If the company is large, and has a major export aspect to their operations, then they contribute to bringing in foreign money, helping avoid or reduce trade deficits, or bring a positive effect, rather than only further deficits. The overall health of the economy and value of the dollar, is affected in part by this aspect of business. In other words, strong profitable major corporations, are ESSENTIAL to the economic health of the ENTIRE COUNTRY as a whole.

A company is not only a COLLECTOR of taxes for the government, but pays many numerous taxes as well, from corporate taxes to value added taxes, business taxes, federal and LOCAL taxes, taxes on services required by the business itself, like construction, electricians, and countless other services required to run or expand the business.

And one should EVER underestimate the value that EMPLOYMENT ITSELF brings to a country's economy. Businesses EMPLOY MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of Americans, and often contribute to their health insurance and retirement. The business is also responsible for collecting INCOME TAX and doing the accounting, and providing the funds to the government. And while ultimately it is the employee, who pays the income tax, it is administered and collected by the business FOR the government... once again, the business is an unpaid government accountant, but... It is the salaries PAID BY THE BUSINESS to the employee, which makes the collecting of income tax even possible.

Countless services are utilized by businesses, which bring in more taxes, PAID BY THE BUSINESS ITSELF, and also increase revenues at OTHER BUSINESSES, who in turn employ more people, and collect and pay taxes themselves.

Services can be construction of new stores, requiring architects and construction businesses, electricians and plumbers, concrete pavers... businesses often pay some part of their employee's health insurance, which benefits insurers. They may pay into their employee's retirement and investment accounts, benefitting other businesses being invested into. Businesses need to transport their products, meaning truck rentals and purchases, mechanics to maintain them, trains, planes and boats to receive and deliver them. Businesses often contract with OTHER companies as well, for printing and signage and advertising and marketing services, as well as uniforms, lighting, shelves, forklifts, central heat and air, and the electric bills that accompany their use.

It is not possible to over-estimate how valuable, these profitable and stable businesses are, to the economy of the nation, and it's citizens!

So...

NO!

I don't have a problem with businesses NOT being further burdened with greedy government taxes, which inibit their bottom line, and therefore, the salaries they pay employees, or further inhibits the growth possible, to open NEW stores, which creates MORE JOBS and MORE SERVICES being used in new areas, etc...

Business is the LIFE-BLOOD of any strong economy.

Government should KISS THEIR ASS, not KICK IT TO THE CURB!

There's nothing I see that's "kicking to the curb" about taxing any biz that enjoys the innumerable bennies of doing business in the USA, Craig. What an odd thing to say, to my mind!

They get SAFETY here! They get the ASSURANCE, if they should do stupid stuff & fail, that our grand gov't will bail them out in the name of the ecomony! Stuff that you & I will never enjoy, as TAXPAYING CITIZENS! They also have huge pull in our gov't, with thier lobbyists, which often ends up costing me - the TAXPAYER!

Sorry, but this is bullshit no matter how much you wanna sugar-coat it. Thier investors get dividends from tax-free profits at MY expense, &, frankly, that makes me wanna get my gun & do some damage.

Think about it! THEY can buy a Senator & get him to make them even MORE $. THEY can rake in huge profits - see EXXON - & NOT pay taxes, while I, should I make a lil mistake in math, can get fined, jailed, hassled indefinitely, whatever. If THEY should do something outside the law, there is little that will be done, cuz there's so little in the way of accountability with a company, while I will be fined or jailed for any & every trespass.

We have given too much leeway to corp's in this country, & now, thanks to your "loopholes," they don't even need to pay into the system while some of thier decisions & actions have caused actual harm to our ppl, our environment, AND our economy. But they should be above both the criminal law & above the tax laws as well, huh? Why do we contiually bend over for the "power" that these outfits have? When I see this sort of thing, all I can say is that our gov't is fulla pimps, & WE are paying for the American corp to f*ck us all so that a few investors can reap the rewards.

Phil,

I hear that Communism really looks out for the little guy, you know... the working class, and is a much fairer system. Why don't you try it, and see if it truly suits you better?

Although, a cursory observation would lead one to believe that their "fairness" means, that just about EVERYONE IS POOR!

You really don't see the corruption in the system, eh?

Don't bother with the communism & socialism comparisons whenever the subject of fairness in capitalism comes up, Craig. You know as well as I that that isn't what I'm aiming for, but it's the most often used retort, isn't it?

Ridiculous thing to say!

This is corruption, man. Why don't we just let the corp's vote in our stead, eh? Cuz that, in essence, is what we do in this country, anyway. They're the ones pulling all the strings. They're the ones deciding upon our choices. They're the ones reaping all the bennies of the American worker as they ship our jobs off to the 3rd world, refuse to pay into our system, ruin our environment, pay less & less every year for our workers' service, & force legislation on us through nefarious means.

Phil, I tell you though...

I think that if you spent even a third of the energy you do, complaining about everything and everyone, into building your own business, or pursuing opportunities around you, that you would be EXTREMELY successful, and magically... you would probably stop complaining about how unfair the system we have is, because you would be too busy enjoying the fruits of the opportunities, our "unfair" system, actually provides, for those with the drive and work ethic to USE IT, as so many foreigners who come here do!

Learn a lesson from them.

Maybe the problem is our own spolied attitudes, rather than whether there is really such unfairness preventing that success.

It's a little like the guy who killed the golden goose.

Better to make use of that nice golden egg, delivered daily, than to kill the damn bird, hoping you will get MORE out of it.

Negativity begets negative outcomes!

BELIEVE IN THAT STATEMENT, AND... IN THE REVERSE OF IT!

Positivity begets positive outcomes!

I was forced to remember that very message, by many of you, and others who care about me, when I was so disraut over what my band had done to me.

I could keep complaining about them and spend an inordinant amount of energies devoted to that, or I could instead spend MORE of my energies on POSITIVE pursuits of my own, and in the end... beat them by own successes!

I took the advice of friends and loved ones, and I am writing songs like crazy (will be posting a few soon!) and I am finishing up on learning some set lists for playing out again! My mom bought me some banana-clip cables, so I have a functioning PA again, and can work again! I have had a number of positive opportunities come through, since my change of heart as well! Including being a featured artist on a new music site, designed around bringing label's and industry people's attention to new artists... and someone my mom knows, can get a demo of mine to an exec at a major label (I am finishing that demo now). I have done some recording work for other artists, and have been putting background music to a children's lullabye CD, that mom has written all the songs for.

So many opportunities coming through.

Such a minor change in attitude, helping it be possible!

Think about it for yourself!

You really don't see the corruption in the system, eh?

There is corruption in ANY system!

You can always become a politician yourself, or develop an issue-oriented group to oppose it, and help foster changes in the law to prevent some of it.

You could also expend more of your energies toward USING the system to your own advantage, and you probably wouldn't feel so badly about corporate priveledge.

As to major corporations having influence, I don't think that, in itself, is "always" a problem. Many lives and families depend on the success of those businesses. Great fortunes are at stake, not to mention millions of jobs. They SHOULD have a little more say, over their own business conditions, than say, a few activists who oppose business itself in the first place, or overly enthusiastic tree-huggers wanting to save a particular frog or insect.

You keep comparing YOUR PERSONAL situation to a major corporation's state of welfare. No offense, but MUCH MORE is riding on the success of that business, and all the related people and businesses depending on it, than your own PERSONAL pet peeves.

All I am saying, is that your best solution seems to be to B*TCH about problems you see, yet not even do anything about it yourself, or not use those energies toward MORE POSITIVE pursuits, even if that pursuit is your own piece of mind or sense of calm and happiness.

Being too negative, "WILL" attract too much negativity into your life.

Everything in balance.

I have to relearn my own belief on this, almost daily it seems.

It is simply too easy, to get into the trap of just being negative, just complaining... and it is really somewhat symptomatic of the beginning signs of GIVING UP!

As Sarah Palin says...

"Don't retreat... RELOAD!!!"

That, sir, is a whole lotta BS.

The very same corp's that refuse to pay into the system (except with bribes) are manipulating that system to make it difficult at best for the little guy to compete, Craig.

Spoiled attitudes, indeed!

You can look at this CORRUPTION & berate me for complaining about it!

Try your "positive thinking" on the battlefield, Craig. It won't work. It's fluff psychology at best.

There's plenty good & bad random stuff that must occur, I'll grant you, in order for anyone to succeed, along with a hefty dollop of hard work.

I DO the hard work. I PAY my part into the system. It angers me that others are above it all simply because they have had the history of corrupt activities that helped them to succeed to the point that they can pull all the strings in our gov't, & you are willing to turn a blind eye to it & berate me for pointing it out.

Quit avoiding the subject, Craig. Is this or is it not a corrupt system? Are there or are there not things like this that need to be addressed? Do you REALLY think it's okay for these multi-BILLION dollar outfits to pass on giving into the system, while I would be shut down & jailed for the same thing?

I HAVE changed my attitudes, btw. I have educated myself to see what so many of the problems inherent in our society actually are, & how they truly affect you & me.

I'm still trying, & pushing hard at it. I AM losing hope when I see responses like yours, however, which tell me that you are in complete agreement with the corruption, & want nothing done to better the situation for anyone in the name of your flag.

That is just plain stupid, imho. Go on & enjoy your gov't BY the corp & FOR the corp. I want out!

Do you REALLY think it's okay for these multi-BILLION dollar outfits to pass on giving into the system, while I would be shut down & jailed for the same thing?

Fair question.

Craig ,,first you are most eloquent,and all I can say is some people can never look beyond their own needs.
Intc [intel] reported a good 1/4. The great news that comes from that is , that foward looking , intell plans to add 1000 to 2000 JOBS.
Does any body what to take away that hope for those people?

Phil ,You are so overtaxed and you just don't get it.
Everytime you buy a box of 30 cent cereal for your kids, and you payed $5.00,you just shelled out $4.70 in hidden taxes that are just past on down the line to YOU . WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN. The govt you voted in doesn't give a crap about you. They just need all the hidden taxes you keep paying in .
Now go back and re-read what Craig wrote and start to understand with an open mind. We need people with brains to stop the pain.