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#99842 by Jonny Deth
Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:45 am
So I'm going over a lot of bands on this site and myspace music while who's personal webpage services are definitely a cancer, their band webpage services are really top notch if you can deal with the congestion.

And while I hear a lot of strong competition, I also see 90% of bands and groups doing the same music that's been around in some cases, for a couple hundred years.
Then they wonder, why aren't we getting anywhere.

Well when there's you and a hundred other bands that sound like a world famous band, who's willing to take the risk marketing you other than you?

So for these people and the few that genuinely have something new to offer, I urge you to do this.

1) Generate a resource of commercial free and college radio stations. Find out which DJ's play your genre and more importantly, who the program director is.
This will be your starting gate and number 1 chance at getting catapulted into the commercial market without spending half a decade building a following in local scenes.

2) Invest in a REALLY big sound system regardless of the fact that in most situations, you're just using the clubs system. If the day comes where you will be playing large auditoriums and major venues, you'll need a sound system and if you let the label handle this detail, you're going to get screwed.

3) While you're working on getting exposure, take some music production and sound engineering classes at a local college or vocational school. Bypass the obscene costs of cutting your album under the labels stronghold and getting yourself in their debt. You can achieve the same results in a basement, bedroom, shed, garage, etc. as are achieved in a fancy expensive studio-some of you already know this.

4) Be prepared to do a lot of talking, make a lot of follow up calls and sell yourself like a product rather than a prostitute. Even in the commercial free and college radio market, call these program directors up once a week, talk to the DJ's playing you etc. and genuinely try to make friends with them. Send free promotional goodies and be willing to stop into the studio to be live on air. These guys want to feel like hotshots and will relish in the ability to say they knew you long before the riches and fame.

5) Make a music video.
Doesn't matter how cheap or amateur, make a music video. Stop frame animation, cheap camera phone recorded, standing in front of a concrete wall located music video. Even if it looks crappy as long as it's entertaining or artsy and you have a good song, people will love it especially kids which is pretty much the demography that makes bands rich.

6) Be prepared to face and deal with complete and total failure.
No matter what we all have talent, skill and education wise, at some point you have to accept you may never make a living off your music. Insignificance doesn't feel good but it's a fact of life and one you just may have to live with.

7) Don't give up and while you learn to live with "No", don't accept it as the definitive answer. If you have product, someone will be interested in making money with you. Once this happens, take notes. Ask seemingly innocent questions and find out everything you can. Learn to cut middlemen out of the profits and do everything for yourself you're confident you can accomplish competently. Self promotion is a really important skill to learn and you want to be able to generate publicity without paying someone else. Your ultimate goal should be to promote yourself and the only expense paid to someone outside your loop is the medium of a service provider such as billboards, radio/television ads, shopping mall banners/posters etc.

And just the same, ultimately a huge local following and strong stage performance means nothing if you don't have that production line sound. It doesn't take a record label or business investor to look at a product and say "wow that will make a LOT of money". In other words, either you have the potential or you don't, doesn't matter if you're all the rage locally. That's like the most popular kid in school thinking after graduation he'll run off to Hollywood and be cast in a blockbuster film.

Promoting yourself really well will bring a crowd and not only recoup your investment but turn a nice profit but I think too many bands let this go to their head. They wait for the labels to come to them or someone in the industry to request a demo and assume they're going to be the next Linkin Park or whoever and it never happens. As I always say, how often do you see a band become huge out of your states largest cities-it's uncommon.
Just the same, self promotion is a really important skill to learn and you want to be able to generate publicity without paying someone else. Your ultimate goal should be to promote yourself and the only expense paid to someone else is the medium such as billboards, radio/television ads, shopping mall banners/posters etc.

The fact of the business is this.
For about the last 75 years, if you could get a song on the radio and it was a hit, you become successful and can go on a major tour. How much money you actually make however largely depends on how smart you are and those working above you having your interests in mind. The bands that get thrown into the commercial market by playing the local scene and relying on the business coming to them seem to be the ones that get the rawest deals and end up in huge legal battles 5 years after the fact.

#99847 by fisherman bob
Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:43 pm
You're making an assumption that we all want to become rich and famous. I could give a sh*t. I'm quite happy with what I've been doing, playing local dives for thirty years and getting a bunch of satisfaction doing just that. My ultimate goal is to continue and put out a legitimate CD of my own ON MY OWN. IF I can get some local airplay that's fine. If I can make a small profit from the CD that's fine. If I lose money on it, that's fine. As long as we get repeat PAID gigs and enjoy what we're doing that's all that matters to me. I don't have any grandiose illusions. I don't need any legal headaches. I'm NOT signing ANY contracts with anybody. Your plan for "making it" in the music business may work for some, but I'm beginning to think it's a matter of really dumbass luck how some people make it big in the world of music. What's the expression "...baffle them with bullshit?" I've seen too many incredible bands/musicians never get anywhere and talentless people make megabucks. I say come up with some controversial shtick and you have a better chance to "make it" big. I'm not into B.S. I'm into playing hard rock'in blues period...

#99849 by philbymon
Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:55 pm
Amen

#99863 by Crip2Nite
Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:11 pm
I'm noticing a trend with some of the newer members on this site.... Each member here is not of the same mind-set... We are all each in it for a completely different reason.... Before all the newbies start giving all this "helpful" advice, hang here for a couple of months and figure out what some of us want... Me, personally, I just do it for the gigs.... Love the scene and I've played from classic to hard to metal to alternative to thrash rock... Different crowds...different clubs..... different people... it's all good... I'm not looking to be a super star... I just love to get up onstage and wail and make new friends because of it.... I betcha each musician on here has a different reason... Everybody stop with the fukkin' advice about "something new" or "same ole sh¡t" posts.... We're all musicians and how we go about it or what we like is our personal business.... STOP WITH THE FUKIN' ADVICE!
#99867 by jsantos
Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:35 pm
Jonny Deth wrote:
3) While you're working on getting exposure, take some music production and sound engineering classes at a local college or vocational school. Bypass the obscene costs of cutting your album under the labels stronghold and getting yourself in their debt. You can achieve the same results in a basement, bedroom, shed, garage, etc. as are achieved in a fancy expensive studio-some of you already know this.



^^^ I like this advice. Some schools and educational establishments in my city offer workshops for recording and sound engineering. I feel that you can self-produce an album at home that can be comparable to one made in a full service studio. The two major softwares courses offered are Protools and Cubase. Musicians with a fast computer, software and good set of microphones can save an enormous amount of time and money by doing recording on their own. Many professional studios are switching to just Mastering or sessions because people are recording at home and they are losing business.


Oh, by the way, My set ups at home is Mac Platform:

Cubas SE software ($200)
USB interface ($99)
Sure Microphones ($150 for a set of 3)

#99909 by fisherman bob
Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:13 am
There are many affordable local studios that will give you a fantastic recording for not a lot of money. We've got one that I like in BlueSprings, Missouri called Soundworks. Just ask a bunch of good local bands with CD's and/or good demos where they did their recording. You should get a consensus who's good AND reasonable.

#100254 by barbi3
Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:54 pm
Crip2Nite wrote:I'm noticing a trend with some of the newer members on this site.... Each member here is not of the same mind-set... We are all each in it for a completely different reason.... Before all the newbies start giving all this "helpful" advice, hang here for a couple of months and figure out what some of us want... Me, personally, I just do it for the gigs.... Love the scene and I've played from classic to hard to metal to alternative to thrash rock... Different crowds...different clubs..... different people... it's all good... I'm not looking to be a super star... I just love to get up onstage and wail and make new friends because of it.... I betcha each musician on here has a different reason... Everybody stop with the fukkin' advice about "something new" or "same ole sh¡t" posts.... We're all musicians and how we go about it or what we like is our personal business.... STOP WITH THE FUKIN' ADVICE!
:arrow: :lol: :lol: [You are soooooo right.My theory--------I live and breathe music,all genres,all the time.Why should I not do what I love and hopefully get paid for it.When I was younger I had a few stars in my eyes.I hid and watched and figured that the BIZ was alot of BULLSH----- and yes DUMB LUCK.Being an older female I know gives me a grand disadvantage.I for one just want to sing,sing,sing.Any and all music and for those of you who think you have it all fingered out--------YOU DON"T------it's ever changing.Every dive,speak easy,honky tonk,bar and grill,etc. is another place to let my soul shine and believe me I can radiate with the best of them!!!!! LOL

#100283 by ColorsFade
Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:57 pm
Crip2Nite wrote:We are all each in it for a completely different reason....


Exactly.

I am not looking to become famous and tour the world... I just want my corner of the music world; my little share.

#100285 by Kramerguy
Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:02 pm
I was at a 60+ multi-band showcase last year, and at then end, when we were all packing up, this dude from one of the other bands is lecturing me on what I need to do to "make it".

Dude.. you just played the same stage, in the same venue, that *I* did. Why would I take advice from someone who hasn't accomplished a damn thing past what I've already managed to do for myself?

That's what this thread reminds me of.

#100289 by jw123
Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:39 pm
Thats funny Kramer

Ive gotten the same advice a few times myself.

#100314 by gtZip
Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:13 pm
In my case, it's almost always a drunk person lecturing me.
That isnt even a musician.

Lord... I hate drunk people.

Last gig - Tall fat guy with white hair comes up to talk to me after everythings been put to bed and hes waiting for his cab.
'You did a great job on that paranoid song'
"Oh, thanks"
'No, dont thank me. Dont thank me. You have no idea who I am. You have no idea.' (All puffed up looking)
"You're right, I dont"
'You know who Michael Schenker is?'
"Of course"
'He's my brother'

And I'm like, ok...
I just said "Sweet", and walked away, but what I wanted to say was "Get the f**k away from me".

Not really an advice / lecture story, but I have had my share of those from drunk people.

If it wasnt for the extra money, I'd never play a bar or any place where the alcahol flowed anymore.

#100340 by Kramerguy
Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:07 am
LOL ZIP..

You reminded me of a drunk a-hole at a gig who came up and told me how much our singer sucked, and just incessantly insisted and bragged about how he would blow him away, and how he could do ozzy better than ozzy..etc..

So I said "oh, hey.. Crazy Train just happens to be our first song next set! How about you come up and sing it then? I got lyric sheets if you don't know the words.."

his response was actually kind of funny, he said something like "I'm too good to be associated with you guys"

lolz.. As he walked away, I said "yeah, but we're gigging tonight and you aren't"...

He kept walking.

Was funnier in my head than spelled out. Drunks rool

#100346 by Jonny Deth
Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:55 am
Kramerguy wrote:I was at a 60+ multi-band showcase last year, and at then end, when we were all packing up, this dude from one of the other bands is lecturing me on what I need to do to "make it".

Dude.. you just played the same stage, in the same venue, that *I* did. Why would I take advice from someone who hasn't accomplished a damn thing past what I've already managed to do for myself?

That's what this thread reminds me of.


That's because you're arrogant and somebody put you in your place.

#100348 by Jonny Deth
Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:10 am
fisherman bob wrote:You're making an assumption that we all want to become rich and famous. I could give a sh*t. I'm quite happy with what I've been doing, playing local dives for thirty years and getting a bunch of satisfaction doing just that. My ultimate goal is to continue and put out a legitimate CD of my own ON MY OWN. IF I can get some local airplay that's fine. If I can make a small profit from the CD that's fine. If I lose money on it, that's fine. As long as we get repeat PAID gigs and enjoy what we're doing that's all that matters to me. I don't have any grandiose illusions. I don't need any legal headaches. I'm NOT signing ANY contracts with anybody. Your plan for "making it" in the music business may work for some, but I'm beginning to think it's a matter of really dumbass luck how some people make it big in the world of music. What's the expression "...baffle them with bullshit?" I've seen too many incredible bands/musicians never get anywhere and talentless people make megabucks. I say come up with some controversial shtick and you have a better chance to "make it" big. I'm not into B.S. I'm into playing hard rock'in blues period...


I made no assumptions at all, I simply gave good sound information that you're not interested in or finding any value in.

A lot of bands get their start on college radio and commercial free radio. It's the only radio I listen to so I've followed a lot of these bands from this medium until they were marketed on a commercial level.
You find something wrong with that?

I'm not one of those people that says "Make it" in the music business, that's what no goal dreamers do.
I'm far more realistic and business minded.
I view a band as a business, music is your product, performing live is the service you provide. That's really a frame of mind for someone that has a product that will be highly marketable and generally, it's pretty obvious if your music is something that will appeal to a mass market or if it isn't. The bottom line is regardless of the genre you fit into, you have a "pop" quality to your writing or you don't.
Obviously if you don't view your band and music in the same way I do, your goals in music are different than mine.

Just the same you're also right, some of it is pure dumb luck and relies on the mediocre tastes of a demography. 300 million Americans to test your product on before you attempt to go global. It's no surprise some really crummy bands, singers, rappers etc. come and go but also make a lot of money before their seemingly insignificant audience gets bored with them and develops better or different taste.
Right place, the right friends, the right family or simply coming from the kind of money it takes to sponsor a small tour and build a name for yourself in enough big cities. Some bands do that, have really boring or bad music and it's still enough to get them endorsed by a corporation.

Some musicians focus on gigs, some focus on recording music and marketing, I'm of the latter. There's no denying it, a band that is reliable, professional, sober and competent on stage can have mediocre music and get signed to a major label. Just the same, a band that's the complete opposite but has music the fans beg for will end up on every store shelf in the nation, if they can manage to produce an album in a reasonable amount of time.

But to criticize my information is arrogant because I know damn well I'm right on the money. Like I said, I've followed this branch of the market for years and have watched bands make the transition from commercial free, college radio, small club tours and youtube onto commercial radio, network television, coliseums and department store shelves.

College and commercial free radio supporting them and reaching a much broader fan base basically made them who they are. When you get thousands of 14 year olds asking where they can buy your album, you're not going to get ignored. Interpol, Metric, Ben Folds Five, Linkin Park, Weezer, Children of Bodom and an awful lot more are bands i heard on these stations for quite a while before they were exposed commercially.

Ultimately a lot of the nasty attitudes I encounter I view as jealousy or arrogance. When you're in your 20's, 30's or 40's and have been at it since you were 14, it's obvious whether you're just indulging in a hobby or have the potential to make a career of it generally within the first 10 years you start working in a band.
But for people in that 15-25 year old range just testing the waters, they have no clue where to start, what to equip themselves with, who they need to hire or work with. The list is rather long and for any of you to carry on the way some of you do shows a huge lack of maturity, professionalism and more than anything, the bitterness of failure and a raging jealousy towards someone that is everything you dreamed about being but will never be.

#100352 by aiki_mcr
Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:44 am
Okay, so in the spirit of unwanted advice, three steps:

1) Figure out what you want to accomplish.

2) Figure out what you need to do to accomplish it.

3) Do it.

Yeah, alright, it's flippant and trite. But it amazes me how often the biggest argument I've had with bandmates comes down to not doing one of these three things.

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