General Music Chat

Hey guys,

I've been working on my leads, as I was mostly a rhythm guitarist for years and years. Some hurdles I've overcome, others I'm still a work in progress, so I was wondering-

1. Do you ever switch modes often when doing a solo, or do you mostly stick to one mode and just commit to it?

2. How do you determine the key of a song? For instance, if a song has the pattern: C-G-A-C, I would generally just assume the key is C, but that has burned me from time to time, especially the keys of D and E, when I go up the neck, just trying to maintain a basic pentatonic mode to improv on can land me on sour notes. I see guitarists who seem to flawlessly fall right into this stuff and feel like a complete noob.

3. Is phrasing just a totally "feel" concept? When I write solos, I tend to just run through and through and though 'wanking' until something rings - sometimes I'm happy with it and mostly I'm not. I've re-written solos months later when something does hit me.. something else that I've been struggling with. The solo to "ordinary celebrity" was one of the few I've written where I thought it was appropriate, catchy (memorable) and felt like a perfect fit.

I'm uploading a new song "Black001" - which is a song we're working on, but I took one of the rhythms (will be a verse / solo rhythm) and soloed on it a bit, trying to get my improv ability down. I started with the aeolian mode, moved onto a dominant phrygian mode, then seemed to mix them a little, then back to the aeolian by the end.

Any pointers or suggestions to creating more "signature licks" would help.. I tend to start running the scales (at 1:08 I had to "correct" myself) when I don't know where to go

Hey guys,

I've been working on my leads, as I was mostly a rhythm guitarist for years and years. Some hurdles I've overcome, others I'm still a work in progress, so I was wondering-

1. Do you ever switch modes often when doing a solo, or do you mostly stick to one mode and just commit to it?

I use all the modes while doing a solo. It depends on what the underlying chords are and the progression. When the composition consists of minor chords and progressions, I favor the Aeolian and Phrygian. For majors, I favor the Lydian. I also would like to point out that major and minor modes
are not exclusive to their chord colors... you can also use major modes to minor chords (visa versa) you just have to stay in key. My favorite mode which I tend to overuse is the locrian (half diminished) .

2. How do you determine the key of a song? For instance, if a song has the pattern: C-G-A-C, I would generally just assume the key is C, but that has burned me from time to time, especially the keys of D and E, when I go up the neck, just trying to maintain a basic pentatonic mode to improv on can land me on sour notes. I see guitarists who seem to flawlessly fall right into this stuff and feel like a complete noob.

This may take a little bit of music theory. The succession of notes determine the tonal center. In the case of the key of C major:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

the harmonic formula is:

W, W, H, W, W, W, H

C to D = 2 frets (a whole tone)
D - E = 2 frets (a whole tone)
E - F = 1 Fret ( a half tone)*
F- G = two frets (a whole tone)
G- A = two frets (a whole tone)
A - B = two frets (a whole tone
B - C = 1 fret (a half tone)

So the key of A would look like this:

A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A

If you follow the same fomula you can find any root note or key.



3. Is phrasing just a totally "feel" concept? When I write solos, I tend to just run through and through and though 'wanking' until something rings - sometimes I'm happy with it and mostly I'm not. I've re-written solos months later when something does hit me.. something else that I've been struggling with. The solo to "ordinary celebrity" was one of the few I've written where I thought it was appropriate, catchy (memorable) and felt like a perfect fit.

Phrasing is a totally "Feel" Concept... It is your expressive signature.

I hope that helps

1. Do you ever switch modes often when doing a solo, or do you mostly stick to one mode and just commit to it?

I tend to stick to one and eventualy I change it briefly. I think it is a matter of taste. Find you own language. Each song is an unique case, you cannot use the same formula forever. In some cases you will stick to the mode, in other you will jump along many modes. Each case is a case.

2. How do you determine the key of a song?

I am preety sure that there is an especific and simple explanation wich I cannot think now. What I know is that, for me, is an intuitive situation. Imagine a blues in E ( E / A / B ). If the intro is B / A / B/ A the key is B? Of course not. Dont be fooled with the first chord of the song. I am missing here the proper language for musical issues. Perhaps someone could calrify that.

3. Is phrasing just a totally "feel" concept? When I write solos, I tend to just run through and through and though 'wanking' until something rings - sometimes I'm happy with it and mostly I'm not.

Thats normal mate, I think most of us do this. With time you learn how to avoid the "bad" notes more and more. It is a matter of practice. Not always the greek modes works well in modern music in my opinion.

I will hear your song now

Your solo on Black001 seems preety nice to me. You are on the right path. Practice is the key. You play well. If you stick to the practice you will be a killer guitarrist in no time.

Cheers!

3. Is phrasing just a totally "feel" concept? When I write solos, I tend to just run through and through and though 'wanking' until something rings - sometimes I'm happy with it and mostly I'm not.

That is how I do it Kramer. I just loop whatever I'm supposed to solo over and then I start playing. I try different techniques, different phrases, all sorts of stuff until something "clicks" and I go, "Yeah, that's what this calls for." Once I know what the piece calls for, then it gets easier.

My bandmate - who is a much better player than I am - does a lot of his solos on the first take. And I think his phrasing is brilliant. I'm convinced that for some people it's just easier; like the difference between Michael Jordan and Steve Kerr. They both played on championship Bulls teams, but clearly one guy was just naturally better than the other...

This may take a little bit of music theory. The succession of notes determine the tonal center. In the case of the key of C major:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

the harmonic formula is:

W, W, H, W, W, W, H

C to D = 2 frets (a whole tone)
D - E = 2 frets (a whole tone)
E - F = 1 Fret ( a half tone)*
F- G = two frets (a whole tone)
G- A = two frets (a whole tone)
A - B = two frets (a whole tone
B - C = 1 fret (a half tone)

So the key of A would look like this:

A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A

If you follow the same fomula you can find any root note or key.

Good stuff- I do know whole and half steps, but for me it always gets fuzzy with keys that start with sharps or start on the half-step-

So, is determining the key is as simple as breaking down the notes into:
W, W, H, W, W, W, H ? If so, how do you apply the formula? Is it based on the combination of each note that makes up each chord, in real time? I'm kind of challenged with the proper terms, so please bear with my trailer-speak lol.

Kramerguy, I found this webpage that describes modal playing very well. Check it out:

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/modes/

I don't think, I don't even try to figure out a scale, never even considered modes...I couldn't tell you what note I just played or what scale I used in any song if you put a gun to my head...

I pick a note to start on and let my fingers go where they will. It usually works quite well.

Billy, if I told you we were doing a blues tune in C#m, which changes up to an Emajor bridge after a 16 bar lead, would you be able to have a general idea what I'm talking about?

Yep, sure would. I've probably played that progression before and don't even realize it...

But I wouldn't worry about it, I'd say "Tell me what key it's in and let's go." Chances are I'd know to expect the key change, I don't know how but I always have a feel for the song once it gets going. I've played loads of songs onstage I've never even heard before, and often I know a key change is coming before it gets there.

That's why playing 3 years of fill in gigs was the best thing that ever happened to me. after a few gigs I didn't worry about it any more, I KNEW I could pull it off, so I got onstage with bands I just met an hour ago many times and loved it. I Ithink that's what really made a real guitar player out of me.

I also recommend every intermediate musician play at least 6 months of fill in gigs and open mic nights. You'll get your act together quick, or you'll fall flat on your face a few times and quit. Better yet is when you fall flat on your face a few times and get up and learn how to get it right next time. We fall down so we can learn to get back up.

I don't think, I don't even try to figure out a scale, never even considered modes...I couldn't tell you what note I just played or what scale I used in any song if you put a gun to my head...

I pick a note to start on and let my fingers go where they will. It usually works quite well.

I've tried that approach, the problem is that I have a better ear than I do ability, so I hit a single sour note during a solo, I hear it. The rest of the band tells me I did a great solo, but all I remember is that one bad note..

I'm a perfectionist, guilty as charged. Knowing instinctively works for a lot of patterns, but when we start talking about the use of half and full steps in regards to how 'happy' or 'sad' or 1000 other emotions of a solo needs, I can't rely on muscle memory and instincts. I need to know a distinct pattern (aka mode) that leans, and then mixing modes and scales ends up with me writing a solo that I can live with.

I envy you guys who can do it flawlessly, but I just don't have that instinct built in.

so I hit a single sour note during a solo, I hear it. The rest of the band tells me I did a great solo, but all I remember is that one bad note..

They call that a blue note in Jazz

Work on just singing your solos first, that opens the door to complete solo freedom. I know I know , you can't hum or sing as fast as you can play, but if you start to form the lines this way you don't get stuck in modal ,technical ,boring playing. The secret is that your brain CAN.
As far as jazz or blue notes REMEMBER all ,ALL , music is about RESOLUTION, Dominant notes resolving to home base. You can slide ANY NOTE in any Key,in any direction , and if it sounds good , use it.
Paleo knows what I mean , just go out and play it, if you start to get hung up on scales and modes you will spend a lot of time not being truly creative.

I just take everything I've learned on guitar and incorporate it into my leads.... I don't even think anymore, I just let it flow.... it's fun.... I find myself going into modes and chromatic progressions along with simple pentatonics and scales besides the long sustaining notes and harmonics and all the little tricks without even thinking about it...

There you go , Now we are talking about a whole different level of artistic and individual FREEDOM. Go Crip Go.