General Music Chat

You are right Hunter. Poetry is not music. However in the classical terminologhy to recite poety or even a tale. Is "singing"
Twas the only point I was trying to make.

I never have liked the term "rap music." Technically rap is NOT music, it does not follow a melodic progression. I don't consider rap to be music. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just not music. It's another art form altogether. More power to those rap artists who are making a living (in some cases a mega-buck living). Rap has lasted a lot longer than I would have imagined. Basically to me rap is poetry accompanied by percussion. Poetry accompanied by percussion is NOT music. Lyrics without music IS poetry. I guess one can imagine some kind of music while reading a poem. Calling a poem without any music "lyrics" is kind of like saying "rap music." It doesn't make any sense to me. Later...

Rap is most likely one of the very oldest aural art forms, & it actually can be associated with music, as in "Convoy," by CW McCall, or "Nugget," by Cake. These were pieces wherein music was played live with the rappist. Then there was the canned stuff that Vanilla Ice used when he stole (sampled) Queen's work behind his lame little rap. Even Evanescense successfully added rap to some of their songs. So rap can indeed be musical. The voice as percussive instrument is just as musical as a drum or a tamborine. Would you say that these are not musical instruments, merely because they don't play melody? (Yes, I'm aware that drums - SOME drums - are tuned to play melody, but more often than not, they are not used in this fashion.)

I can't say that I enjoy rap music, but I can say that I've enjoyed some pieces that used it well.

Lyrics are poetry, yes, but a lyrical poem is one that easily lends itself to song, rather than the wierd stuff (some ppl would call it "poetry") that Richard Braudighan wrote in the '60's in his "Trout Fishing in America."

I have no problem calling a poem a song, albeit unfinished in the musical dept.

Back in olden times, ppl passed lyrics around as completed ideas, & many players couldn't read music or write anything at all, so they could only play what they could recall or make up on the spot. When they went to play a song, they occasionally had no clue what the original melody sounded like, so they just made up new music for it. The most important part of a song, back then, was the lyric, the message, not the "groove." Therefore, in some cases, each minstrell that sang a song used his own music for the piece. Eventually most of the more popular songs settled down into a coherent stable melody, but it wasn't always like that, & many of the songs that they sang had the same exact melody, but simply used different lyrics. Nearly all of the olden poems, sagas & lays, etc., were meant to be sung rather than read, & were considered to be songs. The words have survived, but sadly, the melodies are gone forever.

The whole point of rhyming the lyric & adding music, in the beginning, was to make the message more easily memorable, so that the great stories could be passed on without writing them down.

Nice piece of history there my man.

Oh, well, so I guess that explains the age-old question, "Why does the 'Alphabet Song' sound the same as 'Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star.'

Ah, I never realized that RhythmMan, that is kind of scary they sound alike... Remind me to sing to my kids Metallica songs.

Eh...I have no problem with the term "rap music," but perhaps the performers should be called "rap speakers" instead of singers.

Aw crap, I'll have those tunes stuck in my head all day.

Sans, Sorry about that.
- blame it on the internet.
. . . after all . . . well . . .
. . .
"It's a Small World, After All" . . .

ARRRRRGUH!!

Here's part of the definition of the word music taken from the Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary: "The art and science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds or tones in varying melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre, especially so as to form structurally complete and emotionally expressive compositions." The key part of this definition is varying melody. Rap does not in any way shape or form have varying melody, period. If a rapper is accompanied by music, then it's music. If a rapper is accompanied by a drumbeat, it's NOT music, plain and simple. There are certainly hundreds if not thousands of examples of talking accompanied by music. The C.W. McCall song is a good example. I don't consider that a rap song. But when you have someone talking accompanied by percussion then it's rap. I've heard some rap that I found interesting, and quite a bunch of it not very interesting to me at all. It's obviously an art form and it certainly has given many people an outlet to express themselves, and this is probably a good thing. I don't necessarily like all the negative rap songs, but then again there's certainly a lot of vulgar negative music that's been made as well. I think we're very lucky to have so many different genres of music and types of entertainment that is non-musical as well. There's an almost endless variety to get into. It just shows how truly creative the human mind is. Also makes for an interesting topic to talk about on Bandmix. Later...

Thinking 'bout you.

I'm walking down the shore
Waves stroking my feet.
Because of you I'm feeling unsure about the way I feel about you.
You got me thinking of you.
Then all of the sudden I stop.
I don't know
I don't know
Whether this feeling is true ot not.

Why can't I be free
And live without you?
But I kind of like
Dreamin' 'bout you.

(chorus)
This feeling is sort of weird
I's like to be in love but I can't feel the heat.
I haven't been in love in athousand years.
I'm thinking 'bout you, but it's not real.
I know that this feeling's not true
But I'm thinking about you.

I like to dream alone
Wind stroking my face.
All of the sudden the feeling's gone
But it left a little trace of love.
I was daydreaming of you.
Then suddenly it went away.
I don't know
I don't know
Whether it should be this way or not.

Why can't I let go
And be without you
But it's kind of nice
To dream about you.

(chorus)

(bridge)
I know that it's strange
But it's also true.
I am not in love
But I'm thinking 'bout you.
It just comes and goes.
This thing isn't real.
I know that it's starange.
But that's the way I feel.

(repeat 1st half of the 1st verse)

I can actually see these lyrics go 2-different ways. Either it can be a good POP R&B song, or a POP song kind of like an Avril Lavigne song.

Marie has provided a lot to work with in a song. The syllable structure is there. The lines in the song don't twist your tongue. The Bridge get's to the heart of the story, and transitions well into a chorus.

If you look at the lines individually, and arrange some of them in a different order, trim it down a little, and maybe tweak a few of the lyrics. I can see this becomig a good POP song.

The verse lyrics would have to be cut down to fewer lines, the last 4 should be cut in half, just to transition into the chorus (or have the last 2 in background vocals). And you'd have to use a VCVCBCO.. Funny abbreviation but it's the pop formula. The song would be too long as it's written. But there are enough verse lines written to be able to pick the best ones, tweak a few, cut it down, and still make sense of the story. The first 2 chorus lines should be re-written. I can't make any sense of the 2nd one. But we're talking about 2-lines. 2-FAT lyric lines, and the chorus is good to go.

The story is golden for POP songs.. Teenage love issues. Sells like no other.

Marie. I like what you've written. The verse lines roll off the tongue easily, and the syllable structure of the whole song is great. Some of the lines could use a little tweaking, but if you were surrounded by the right people, this would be a really good song. I'm impressed. I can visualize it 100%.

I forget what it's called, but there have been classical pieces wherein the singer didn't actually sing, but spoke in tones & pitches that resembled singing. The stuff I heard back in Music Appreciation class was really eerie, especially when using a child's voice speak-singing over a strange melody. I wish I could recall the specific piece I'm referring to...

I haven't really heard any rap that didn't have some sort of musical accompaniment. All of the stuff I've heard has either been single chord jamming with rap, or it used actual musical melody behind it, so perhaps I'm not qualified to discuss the musical qualities of the genre, if rap with drumming alone exists, & is popular.

Still, I would ask if you think that drums, tamborines, & other percussive instruments are indeed musical instruments or simply musical enhancements. I have heard pieces where someone sang over drums alone, & thought it to be quite musical. When the rapper, as a percussive instrument, is used over music, I find that it, too, can be rather musical.

Rap, as I understand it, is a music form in which the "singer" doesn't sing, but speaks over the music. Thus, Jimmy Dean's "The Ballad of Big John," "Convoy," & "Nugget" are indeed "rap songs," according to my Music Appreciation prof at college. Modern urban rap that downplays all that is right & good & calls for the offing of cops & such has no interest value for me anymore than "Convoy" did, back when it was popular. But when it's used to emphasize the message or the beat, it's a most effective music form that can be quite entertaining, insightful & yes, musical, as well.

I guess you could say rap is atonal music but for me that's a stretch. And just because a professor says something doesn't mean he (or she) is right. When I went to college I heard a lot of B.S.coming out of the mouths of esteemed professors. Later...