General Music Chat

I see it differently. I'm trying to help someone, and you're an old fart with excuses for mediocrity.

Like I said, this is for people who have a little ambition to succeed. If you don't think it applies to you, then there is no reason to comment, is there?

Love to sling the insults, don't you. I'm an old fart, Mark's a 'local yokel'... Just WHO are you trying to help here on these forums? You name-drop and brag about your storied career then say it's all 'to help others' - BS!

What you said was:
" And IF you are not "in it for the money" there is no reason to continue reading or responding to this thread, because it is meant for people who are serious about a career in music and makes no attempt to address those who are not. "
So, per your words right there, it's all about the money - if you are serious about music, but are not in it for the money (that describes me), then basically 'you don't count'.

Some good points from both Jook and RUI. Dunno from 'pro' vs. 'amateur,' but back in the 80s/early 90s I played to make the rent, food, etc. while I was in grad school (I like living alone and really like ribeyes). Never made any distinction beyond that. And never had anyone ask me for a backstory, resume, or anything else; typically I showed up for a session, played, and if it worked, was offered a spot (and if not...). Never had anyone ask me about my pedigree at a gig, either. Maybe if I was really famous...

If you're trying to make a go of it and sustain yourself primarily on music--and like RUI, my standard of living suggests against it--Jook is right: you gotta put yourself out there and make contacts. That's true in any field. But the good musicians/bands I've known (and sometimes worked with) always focused on the music first, then worked at making it profitable--sorta like going to school to be a good accountant or engineer or psychologist, then going out to find a job where they'll pay you for it. Everybody likes to be paid for what they do, and in this context, if you don't have a sound folks like, you're dead meat--no matter what your PR says.

What's the old joke about how to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice...

I see it differently. I'm trying to help someone, and you're an old fart with excuses for mediocrity.

Like I said, this is for people who have a little ambition to succeed. If you don't think it applies to you, then there is no reason to comment, is there?

Love to sling the insults, don't you. I'm an old fart, Mark's a 'local yokel'... Just WHO are you trying to help here on these forums? You name-drop and brag about your storied career then say it's all 'to help others' - BS!

First of all, the "local yokel" comment was about no one in particular, even if it was said in a response to Mark. "You" is a plural word the way I used it in that sentence. I apologize if that wasn't clear but it was never meant as a slight to anyone.

Secondly, "local yokel" is not derogatory. It's a term we use here to describe someone who does not want to travel. There is no shame in that...but it's a specific kind of musician. One of the best guitarists I know is a local yokel, Scott McGill in Beaumont TX, and he simply doesn't leave town. He's been full-time professional musician with a house band situation since the 70s.

But you? Yea, you're an old fart like the rest of us. Embrace it.

What you said was:
" And IF you are not "in it for the money" there is no reason to continue reading or responding to this thread, because it is meant for people who are serious about a career in music and makes no attempt to address those who are not. "
So, per your words right there, it's all about the money - if you are serious about music, but are not in it for the money (that describes me), then basically 'you don't count'.

For the purposes of this topic and discussion...you don't count. The thread clearly says "Why no one is listening to your music" and that doesn't apply to people who are not producing music. This thread is about successful creativity, not performance.

But on top of that, a professional is someone who gets paid. It was you who said that you weren't in it for the money, hence this topic is not something you should have an opinion on.


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Ted, don't take this the wrong way, and I respect you probably more than ayybody in a business sense because you do seem to have made a mark in the music industry, but your previous comments about your relatives, cousins and such already being in the music business, makes me think you had better odds of getting your foot in the door than the average joe musician because of who you know and not what you know..the Web Pierce comment by you indicates you already had help getting in.. that's a good back story too..you could say you were "born into it"

Almost all relatives on both sides of my family are musicians, but none of them had anything to do with my path.

Used to think that everyone's family had a hoe-down when they got together, because singing/playing was expected whenever either side of my family would gather for a holiday. My relatives were all good players but only a couple of them were trying to be more than local yokels.

Because so many of those relatives were good musicians but worthless as people, my dad greatly discouraged being a musician. Still didn't take it seriously when I was making more than his remodeling business. Constantly asking me what I was going to do with my life, though I knew from age 4.

Most of my older musician relatives died with sclerosis of the liver from drinking in the bars they played, and several of my contemporary cousins are already dead from the lifestyle, so I promised myself I would quit if I hadn't made it by age 30...and I did.

That was when I started writing and singing for the pure love of being creative, unlike any of my relatives (minus one cousin on London Records). After several years of that I had quite a large catalogue and my wife was the one who suggested I go into a studio with it.

Guess it's the opposite of Jimmy because I was doing great financially (owned 2 locksmithing businesses) but music is in my blood and I simply could not stop once I started producing albums.

After all these years I'm still not doing as well as the locksmith business was when I retired from that, but having so much more fun and enjoying life on my terms is worth it! Having money does not equal being happy, but I couldn't continue if I wasn't paying the bills, so yea, I'm in it for the money because that's what a professional does. However it isn't my primary concern.

I go for impact, and change people's lives for the better through the power of a song.

Priceless.

Ted-
I don't think you're hitting the ball out of the park here. Reasons, reasons, reasons.......................

Tell you my opinion on this subject. The bottom line?? WORK ETHIC.
Too many people in today's society feel entitled. That's BS. When I was growing up, I was given everything I needed to live. If I wanted something, I had to work for it. This goes back to 'life lessons' learned @ an early age.

You're going to receive what you put out. You can call it Karma, Reaping, whatever............It's a natural law that isn't taught anymore and a lot of people simply ignore it. If you work hard, you will be rewarded. No one is going to give you anything. You have to earn it.

Lots of belly-aching going on about the plight of the musician. I see it. I understand it. But @ the same time, I'm trying to use all of the resources I have to get around it. Get out there. Shake hands. Make phone calls. Pass out business cards. In other words- WORK @ IT. I truly believe it will work if you put in the time. You may have to make a few compromises along the way but that's anything in life. People who fail to compromise don't make it. 'My way or the highway' always ends up on the road!!

And you are absolutely right, bro, but it has to be mixed with faith.

It takes faith to believe work done today will pay off tomorrow, and so few of my musician buddies are willing to aim for tomorrow. They make no plans to succeed....which by default is planning to fail.

But as you illustrate, having a plan doesn't matter if you don't do the work it takes to accomplish the plan.

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Some good points from both Jook and RUI. Dunno from 'pro' vs. 'amateur,' but back in the 80s/early 90s I played to make the rent, food, etc. while I was in grad school (I like living alone and really like ribeyes). Never made any distinction beyond that. And never had anyone ask me for a backstory, resume, or anything else; typically I showed up for a session, played, and if it worked, was offered a spot (and if not...). Never had anyone ask me about my pedigree at a gig, either. Maybe if I was really famous...

If you're trying to make a go of it and sustain yourself primarily on music--and like RUI, my standard of living suggests against it--Jook is right: you gotta put yourself out there and make contacts. That's true in any field. But the good musicians/bands I've known (and sometimes worked with) always focused on the music first, then worked at making it profitable--sorta like going to school to be a good accountant or engineer or psychologist, then going out to find a job where they'll pay you for it. Everybody likes to be paid for what they do, and in this context, if you don't have a sound folks like, you're dead meat--no matter what your PR says.

What's the old joke about how to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice...

And your perspective is completely consistent with what the article is talking about.

You can't sell a widget until you've made one. There is always an investment before one can get to the process of marketing. Customers want to know "something/anything" about the brands they like.

Maybe no one in the audience asked about your backstory because they were busy on the backstory of the hot waitress.... but I'll bet you have a bio for prospective gigs, right? It's the same idea, just on a local level.

And I'm sure you agree that, all things being equal, you'd be more likely to buy from someone whose story is interesting than from someone who seems generic and faceless. Even if it seems pointless to another musician, the end consumer (fans) of original music wants to hang with the cool kids that have a relatable backstory. Millennials are all about the experience as much as the music. Hipsters want to know minutia about every unknown indie band to be cooler than their friends.

I mean, how many people know about the tortured life of Amy Wineglass? How many know that Adele was dumped by her boyfriend, or that Clay Aiken is gay? So, if you think about it for just a minute, you know the backstory of most of your favorite acts.

There's a reason for that.

But really the point of a backstory in this particular article is about having some experience under your belt. Something that says you deserve any success you get because you've lived life and have something worth saying. Proof that you are bolder than the average librarian.

Not sure why that has been so controversial in this thread, actually?


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