jw123 wrote:LOL, Jimmy if your doing it to get paid and it doesnt work out then quit and do something else.
Everyone wants to blame it on people playing for free, or the club owners, its not that at all. Its all about drawing and entertaining an audience that will support you. Your in the entertainment business when you step out of the garage, its not Kansas anymore. If you can develop a consistent audience then you can ask to be paid. If you cant draw people then save yourself some grief and stay in the garage.
On a side note, last night my wife and I went out and saw this acoustic guitarist playing and singing, he was working for tips, he was mostly country, but he played a couple of originals, and a couple of them were great. I asked him why he played out for tips, he said Im mainly a songwriter and this way I get to work out my originals in public, he said sure I would like to get paid, but then I would have to stick to the standards, this way I can do my thing. His name was Nick Garrison, 20 something, nice guy and one hell of a songwriter, if he had demanded pay, I wouldnt have gotten to see him, cause I know the owner, he only hires guys that are established and draw a crowd.
These threads get very stupid to me, if you dont like what your getting paid or offered do something else, or figure out how to think outside the box. Like Jimmy said if you dont like the rules, step aside and STFU!
I agree that it doesn't matter how you sound to a venue, as long as you bring a crowd.
I also agree that it isn't the fault of a band willing to play for free, but if you are going to criticize the bar when you don't bring a crowd, there is a band that is willing to play to the ashtrays for free no matter how crappy they sound.
That being sad, every Tom, Dick, and Harry, can come out of the woodwork, learn three chords and saturate the market allowing the talented artists to be overlooked. Albeit it may also be the fault of said artist not getting out there and hitting the pavement, but it still doesn't help.
Imagine as a bar owner how much time you have to review bands. Come on, you have seen how stressed out some of those guys are. They have a thriving business that can bring you exposure, they don't have time to go through EVERY band and review them. Well at least where I was playing out. I guess I really don't know the scene in Ohio.
I mean, you don't graduate high school, and go saturate the hospitals with resumes as a community, trying to all be Physicians. Some of us have worked for DECADES to become accomplished.
Having a saturated market doesn't help in ANY case man, but at least I would expect it to be saturated with talented players, not with musicians that just bought their first Mel Bay Lesson Manual.
But you and I agree that these threads can get long winded because everybody feels different.
I agree with a lot of what you say man, but three chords isn't an excuse to me, and never will be.
NOW if they play those chords like TOM PETTY? Hell, I will go to their show, but 9/10 they can't, or will refuse too.
It is just so frustrating sometimes, I am not saying the whole industry is like this in my opinion. It is just the bad part, or... "Bad Scenes". That is all.
Santa Monnica Pier in CA?... that place is BANGING with talent, and everyone loves it there. GREAT scene, dudes will play music for you RIGHT on the street. They walk around with amps strapped to their butt. lol. Open minded, talented, studied musicians.
Friggin sweet.
Those are the better parts of the industry. Those places if you can find them are what I would recommend for any struggling artist.
An experience to say the least.
But all and all, I can' stress enough how I feel you can learn a lot by just following the money. There is your answer.
If something isn't getting done, or you aren't getting what you want out of the experience monetarily, find out why.
Follow the money.
Money, money, money. Pretty simple. Nothing else matters if you are playing venues.
If you are entertaining, and good enough to play what you want, and still bring a crowd. You are a damn fine entertainer.
Simply put, that is my viewpoint.
I would rather fail in a cause that will eventually triumph, than to triumph in a cause that will eventually fail. ~Woodrow T. Wilson
