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#205710 by DainNobody
Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:56 pm
if it ain't Motorhead, then it's not true metal..just sayin'..

#205739 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:12 pm
Aye I steeped in it now.

Jimmy, not all punk is at the same level of intensity.
Personally I don't care if you like my music, I like my music. Ok? OK. lol

But I do like some of your music. I guess I just wrote that wrong.
I dislike INTENSELY most punk because it's so atonal and non-melodic.

I dislike heavy punk. Hmmm although I don't really like Green Day, either.

The point is that although you list your music as punk, it doesn't hit me that way.

It reminds me of Repo Man and some of that ilk, Suburbia and such.
And for some strange reason, I always liked that stuff.

Soon as it gets all "Black Flag" level, I am out the door as well.

Sorry Jimmy, didn't mean to sideswipe you..I've heard more of your music than you think I have at this juncture.

#205742 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:23 pm
fisherman bob wrote:. I always knew you were a good man despite all your foibles.


You're wrong, I am a bastard in training. You have to be to survive here in the tri-state area. (dying slowly lol)

You have one choice, "do you want to be predator or prey"? And I have been prey for a very long time. My only problem is that I don't learn the lessons of life well so I am doomed to repeat them.

Hey I'd love to be a good guy all the time, but it doesn't suit.

The nicer you are, the more people think you are weak and then come at you because they think you are an easy mark.

Those days are over. I eat whatever I kill, including malfeasants.
You just have to cook it longer and at a higher heat.
Last edited by Starfish Scott on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#205743 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:25 pm
Peg Lautny wrote:Anything with "core" at the end of it.....sends me running.


THAT'S IT EXACTLY...

#205761 by DainNobody
Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:45 pm
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:Aye I steeped in it now.

Jimmy, not all punk is at the same level of intensity.
Personally I don't care if you like my music, I like my music. Ok? OK. lol

But I do like some of your music. I guess I just wrote that wrong.
I dislike INTENSELY most punk because it's so atonal and non-melodic.

I dislike heavy punk. Hmmm although I don't really like Green Day, either.

The point is that although you list your music as punk, it doesn't hit me that way.

It reminds me of Repo Man and some of that ilk, Suburbia and such.
And for some strange reason, I always liked that stuff.

Soon as it gets all "Black Flag" level, I am out the door as well.

Sorry Jimmy, didn't mean to sideswipe you..I've heard more of your music than you think I have at this juncture.
whether you believe it or not Scott, I much appreciate your thoughts on different subjects as they seem to align with many of my personal take on things.. what I really admire, is your ability to write in a abstract manner if you will, and after many attempts, I can not come up with a decent writing style of my own, I must be too blunt and dull to develop further..

#205780 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:38 pm
Dane you've seen a lot of music instruction/theory/? I take it you have.
My take on that is that "it kills the ability to write what you hear in your own skull".

Try just sitting down and hum yourself a chorus or verse, melodically speaking. Then you attempt to pen it. I use a little notation and a chordie, if you will. (the guitar is my preferred method of notation)

Then you play it over and over again, 40 days and 40 nights.

Slowly you will hear something evolve from it. You will sing it, you will hum it. It will drive you crazy or damn near. When you think you have a vocal for it, pen the lyrics and you will remember your own melodic portion of the vocals.

So you are looking for 3 parts, primarily. A chorus, a verse and a break.
ALL THE REST IS FLUFF. You can have that on top if you want, just be careful not to overdo it.
(Too much chocolate sauce on the sundae will give you a stomach ache.) (I commonly fluff everything after all the regular hard work is done.(the 3 parts))

When you use "the protocol", you are writing from the gut.
Yeah some of it sounds like this or that. So what.
By the time it gets done, it's unrecognizable to me. PERIOD.
Imitation is NOT the highest form of flattery. bullsh!t

Plagiarism is a sin vs all would be artists.

THAT IS HOW YOU WRITE VIA YOUR OWN STYLE.
WRITE FROM THE GUT OR HEART, not from anywhere else.

As far as my abstract manner of writing/thinking, it's head trauma and nothing more.

Plenty of people tell me, "I don't understand your references or how you think". I say " good, you aren't meant to" and half the time I don't understand it either. Do I question it? No, just roll with the punches and do the very best you can do at all times or walk away because anything in life worth doing is hard work and if you don't want to work at it, just quit. (And no I am not telling you to quit, Dane.)

Sometimes I get my best ideas, driving down the road. It's just tough to get back to the house so I can record them, so I can work on them later.
(I use a mini sandisk recorder that Les turned me on to.)

Machinery noise often brings me the most unbelievable music IN MY HEAD. If I can't record it somehow, it's gone. This is why i say I've forgotten more music than I ever knew and that's horrible to think about.

If you are guilty of anything, Dane, it's probably humming a few bars and thinking, "damn that's good, I should write that" and then falling back down on yourself internalizing/discrediting yourself via introspection.
The line goes, "oh I can't use that, it sounds like X".

99% of the people don't realize that by the time you get those few bars out, it really doesn't sound like who you thought it did, you just think it does. And then because of that mental tear down feature, your own musical style has to take a back seat and your possibly awesome tune NEVER gets written.

Les showed me this in an accidental fashion.
The guy is/was a really good keys player and I thoroughly enjoyed working with him, but no one will be telling me what sounds good and what doesn't...that's my job.

And if you collab with someone, neither dingle berry has the right to strangle out the other because it take the sum of all parts to make something extraordinary.

If I sit with a piece for 8 hours via a mastering process and it's "done", I damn well expect it to be similar to how I left it. I don't care what producer you want to work with, they have no right to chop your crap into something THEY want.

A pack of short sighted animals on long trek through the jungle with no water, lest they be doing it themselves.

Just like if you want to have the final say on everything that's done, RECORD IT YOURSELF. Then you don't have to argue with anyone at all.

VISION isn't something that everyone has but if you have it, you can tell if what's being produced is along the lines of what was originally foretold.

The next mfer that slices and dices something I am working on will get smacked, just like the last entity I worked with the other day.

We spent a lot of time smoothing out her tune and vocals.
The next time I hear it, it's been changed drastically.
The vocalist and I look at each other and shrugged.
I went outside and smoked a cigarette, it stressed me out so badly. (considering I quit smoking)
I then had a talk with the vocalist. She indicated that she didn't like the changes.

I went in to see the head honcho and told him it sucked. (privately)
Ended up rolling the changes back to where we left off. (good studios keep copy of what you've done even if it's not current)

We ended up doing some light changes to lower the treble and up the mids, added some coloring effects and voila, the main course was served.

Of course i can see that I angered the powers that be by "not lying down in the road and letting the trucks run over me", but you know I don't go for that sh*t now or ever.

The final disposition was the vocalist was happy with the end product and everyone else was pissy, but the "proof was in the pudding".

I.e> Everyone not directly involved in production thought that the product was due to the engineer's efforts etc, but I know better and so did the vocalist et al.

I'll probably get canned here soon because of it, but f**k it.
Better to do the job right and get kicked out than to stay on and be doing things wrong and sounding bad as usual.

Conversely if I thought everything I touched over there was going to be bad, I'd quit because I don't need to be associated with a musical entity that can't do it correctly.

#205819 by DainNobody
Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:09 am
thanks a million Scott for your insight!

#205829 by Starfish Scott
Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:26 am
Bleh, I can teach anyone to write what they feel. (I can get music out of anyone at all, almost.)

If you don't feel it, you can't write it.

Worse yet is trying to record it, that's the other 50% of the equation and I am confirmed NO GOOD at that part of it. If you are working the tech end and you blow it, you are out like the cat who sh*t the bed.

The absolute worst is having the technician take over creative control of what you are working on. (mean look at Lester)

I could teach a seminar about the process, but what would you do with the other 59 minutes of the scheduled hour? lol It's easier to show it than explain it.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, but try the process and adjust it to suit yourself. You know it's working when you get your 3 lines and you feel they are good.

All the rest is ad lib, imagination and the will to win.
I think everyone on this forum is capable of producing something quality from within, you just have to take it at your own speed and have a little confidence in what you do. You are a musician, make something stellar.

If you try and all you make is a little star dust, try again.
You'll make a planet or a star cluster yet. (wink)

=EDIT=

I'm supposed to quantify the last bunch that were written, so I'll do so now.

My Friend 222
Perpetual Groove

Spin
My Friend 223 (the clean version)
Ain't No Telling
Irrational
Invisible Light
Mint/Every Last Stand
Come and Gone

Bitter
Flutterfly
Send Her Down
Drifter Me
Prisoner
Space Cowboy
She Called From The Moon


The second group is the collaborative w/ Les (LA Long).
The first group is with N. Cirasa/Floater Productions.
The third group is via Infinity with Ted Reynolds, including previously unreleased/remastered songs.

"My Friend" and "Ain't No Telling" are adaptations/covers.

And I think that's all we let loose here. I'm sure I am forgetting a few and I have a couple that are unsuitable for release, along with a few that I am saving for release on "Blue Skies Over Your Dome".

Thanks for your interest.
Last edited by Starfish Scott on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

#205863 by Planetguy
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:04 am
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:Dane you've seen a lot of music instruction/theory/? I take it you have.
My take on that is that "it kills the ability to write what you hear in your own skull".



scottie, you know i got big love for you bro, but i'm calling POO on that.

ya know those "B" guys (Beethoven, Bach, Brahms) all had a lot of musical training and had their theory $hit well wired. same for bird, miles davis, coltrane, brubeck, etc. seems to me they were able to come up w some good stuff despite all the book learning!

having the nuts and bolts theory of how and why things work does not have to equal dry, sterile, and a lack of creativity.

that's the same as saying that knowing the rules of grammar and punctuation negate having anything to say as a writer.

actually, knowing your theory can be incredibly valuable for COMING UP WITH IDEAS...and suggesting things. and it'll help your hands find the ideas you're hearing in your head.

#205867 by Mike Nobody
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:36 am
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:Machinery noise often brings me the most unbelievable music IN MY HEAD. If I can't record it somehow, it's gone. This is why i say I've forgotten more music than I ever knew and that's horrible to think about.

If you are guilty of anything, Dane, it's probably humming a few bars and thinking, "damn that's good, I should write that" and then falling back down on yourself internalizing/discrediting yourself via introspection.
The line goes, "oh I can't use that, it sounds like X".

99% of the people don't realize that by the time you get those few bars out, it really doesn't sound like who you thought it did, you just think it does. And then because of that mental tear down feature, your own musical style has to take a back seat and your possibly awesome tune NEVER gets written.


Sounds like me for a long time.

#205868 by Starfish Scott
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:49 am
You know that may be true for some, but I've met some highly trained people and they have difficulty pumping out the goods.

I completely agree that you very much need a certain level of knowledge de musique to be fluent but I see it over and over again where over trained musicians stop dead in their tracks, unable to complete their work(s).

At one point I mentioned a college prof I used to play with and he and his little band of merry men were VERY musically educated but couldn't come up with the goods. Great musicians if they had the music in front of them.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I am on the "barely musically literate" level.
What I don't understand GREATLY outweighs what I do know about the subject and yet I seem to be able to crank it out.

I need 12-16 hours of darkness, plenty of coffee and a little piece of "it" that all involved agree is worthwhile and we're off to the races. The better it gets, the more excited I become and the quicker we finish.

If you want to drag your feet and split up the hours between work days, it hurts the product and destroys continuity. (Sometimes I can't remember what or how to finish if a certain amount of time elapses between sessions, it's like wiping the chalk board.)

All i know is what works for me. I attribute it to either a minor form of idiot/savant or I also had a serious head wound as a child, pick one.
The last time I had an EKG?, it was discovered that I "spike" every 10 minutes and contributes to volatility at very least.

Maybe it's both, all or neither, I just don't really know or care.

But I can do my own thing fairly well and as long as the other music is fairly reasonably within my scope, I can do that fairly well also.

You break out something I am diametrically opposed to though and all bets are off. I become as useless as a broken doorknob. "It won't let you in or out, no matter how hard you fuss with it."

The only way I ever get something out of my own set of norms is a collaboration, which can be hit or miss. I never know until the end.

"Say what you mean, mean what you say, say what you do, do what you say".

#205903 by GuitarMikeB
Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:52 pm
Music theory works for some, not for others.

For me, I know that if I'm composing a tune that is not in any particular key (to start), like if I have descending G-F#-F-E major chord pattern played with open strings in a drop D (the song is complete now!), then theory tells me that I can go to a E major scale (E - A - B, for example) for the chorus, bridge or verse.
Theory can be used to make the sound pleasing or mood-evoking to the audience. If you don't know theory, you may be using the same things, just don't know it.

#205910 by jw123
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:39 pm
I know theory, I just cant explain it, does that make sense?

I think you have to utilize whatever you can to get your point across, thats my take on it.

If its theory so be it, if its just animal instinct so be it, but the more tricks you have in your bag the better the finished product will be.

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