General Music Chat

Grant - you're whining! These are great tunes. Without hearing the original un-mastered versions side-by-side, its hard to judge.

Homemade Remedies - I question the mix, not the master. Seems drums are all off to the left, guitars to the right, This is kind of unusual, but if its what you wanted ... Lead vocal could use a little high-end sparkle to make it cut through the mix a little more.

Bench for Two - I'd retrack to get less squeak from changing chords, if you can't gate it. The piano has no high end to it, so is indistinct and the strings lack sparkle, too. The guitar lead needs to come up in the mix, and the mando (?) during that part is too buried. The song sounds all at the same volume (over-compressed/limited or just no dynamics at the mix stage) - for example the part after the lead should definitely be a little louder.

Did the 'masterer' only master, or also do some mixing?

I'm not trying to be overly critical - just giving my thoughts on the mixes - mixing is the toughest part of the process, mastering is easy if the mixes are done well.

Grant - you're whining! These are great tunes. Without hearing the original un-mastered versions side-by-side, its hard to judge.

Homemade Remedies - I question the mix, not the master. Seems drums are all off to the left, guitars to the right, This is kind of unusual, but if its what you wanted ... Lead vocal could use a little high-end sparkle to make it cut through the mix a little more.

Bench for Two - I'd retrack to get less squeak from changing chords, if you can't gate it. The piano has no high end to it, so is indistinct and the strings lack sparkle, too. The guitar lead needs to come up in the mix, and the mando (?) during that part is too buried. The song sounds all at the same volume (over-compressed/limited or just no dynamics at the mix stage) - for example the part after the lead should definitely be a little louder.

Did the 'masterer' only master, or also do some mixing?

I'm not trying to be overly critical - just giving my thoughts on the mixes - mixing is the toughest part of the process, mastering is easy if the mixes are done well.

Mike, i truly do appreciate your feed back...
re songs:
The panning was deliberate, Piano was midrange, not intended to feature (or be distinct). However, it was more distinct where i wanted it originally) in pre-master than now. If you check out that tiny run, up the keys, it got buried in the master. Retrack on guitar, duly noted... The acoustic leads, also got buried. The vocals... that too was brighter in the original version. Actually , Homemade remedies vocals were the hardest vocals for me to do. I never was completely satisfied, but the clock kept ticking...

Like I said, I think the pre-mastered versions were overall a little richer, clearer, brighter than the mastered versions. I'm not sure if he changed any mixes at the last moment...to tweak for mastering.

The lesson here for me , was that I should have been there when the mastering was done.
Next time, I'll know better.

Like I said, I think the pre-mastered versions were overall a little richer, clearer, brighter than the mastered versions. I'm not sure if he changed any mixes at the last moment...to tweak for mastering.

The lesson here for me , was that I should have been there when the mastering was done.
Next time, I'll know better.

No one said your songs suck.

But the above rings the loudest to me.

You have to be there when they master because otherwise they will change it to what they think is best and not everyone has the same idea(s).

And you definitely find out AFTER the fact, not before.

Often the people behind the board have a much more pedestrian view of what's going on...this sounds like another example of exactly that.

No one wants to go too far out on a limb regardless of original version.

I say that this is an endeavor that is inherently what you make of it.
If you aren't there to make sure you get what you need from it, you get something other than you wanted. Sometimes (especially if the piece is uncomplicated) you can be pleasantly surprised, but as the complexity goes up so does the chance for miscommunication(s).

Be there or be square..

Like I said, I think the pre-mastered versions were overall a little richer, clearer, brighter than the mastered versions. I'm not sure if he changed any mixes at the last moment...to tweak for mastering.

The lesson here for me , was that I should have been there when the mastering was done.
Next time, I'll know better.

No one said your songs suck.

But the above rings the loudest to me.

You have to be there when they master because otherwise they will change it to what they think is best and not everyone has the same idea(s).

And you definitely find out AFTER the fact, not before.

Often the people behind the board have a much more pedestrian view of what's going on...this sounds like another example of exactly that.

No one wants to go too far out on a limb regardless of original version.

I say that this is an endeavor that is inherently what you make of it.
If you aren't there to make sure you get what you need from it, you get something other than you wanted. Sometimes (especially if the piece is uncomplicated) you can be pleasantly surprised, but as the complexity goes up so does the chance for miscommunication(s).

Be there or be square..

I disagree with this.

I think Grant IS whining a bit and I think he got the best with what he has to work with. It's a pretty excellent demo of great songs that falls somewhat short in final production quality for broadcast to his ears and mine. In my limited experience with both project studio recording and working with very skilled pros in the "B" studios in Hollywood, the final result is really dependent on the skills of the guys behind the console, not how much you babysit them or browbeat them.

Audio engineers and mastering engineers have very specialized skill sets and the best just have amazing ears. If you want the max from your finished product, you are gonna need their ears and they probably don't live in El Paso or Cucamonga. They live in LA, Nashville, and New York. There are a lot of really excellent local drummers here but if I really want the drums to sound like Neil Peart or Vinnie Colaiuta I am going to need their hands.

If I want to create an excellent sound stage with vocals that pop and music that has lots of energy I am going to need someone who has been there many times before with a track record of success. I need his ears and his experience. It doesn't have to be Clive Davis or George Martin, but someone with excellent credits who knows how to get this done. Once I have the right skills in place, I will give them clear instructions with notes on a track sheet and a reference track of music I want the final result to sound like. Then I will get out of the way and let the pros work their magic. They certainly don't need me to be there telling them how to do their job.

If this was my project (and it isn't). I put a ton of time and effort into it with aspirations of a broadcast quality final result, I would get a re-mix and master by someone with big fresh ears and serious credentials. It is that close and will probably cost less than you think.

Expecting a local recording engineer with little or no experience producing broadcast quality recordings to create a masterpiece with the help and direction of a musician with little or no experience producing broadcast quality recordings is a longshot that is very likely to disappoint. There is no substitute for proven skill and experience.

Thank you, Johnny. I've been trying to get that point across but you are much more eloquent.

get out of the way and let the pros work their magic. They certainly don't need me to be there telling them how to do their job.

amen!


Does anyone want to make the case that Johnny Rotten even had a brain cell? Yet, the Sex Pistols records were broadcast quality. I doubt they were in the studio when the mixing and mastering happened. Johnny was smart enough to let the experts do their job.

Grant has a good recording that will take him further than he is now. I think the essense of his songwriting talent and vocal ability were captured. It's a good step towards the next one. He should be proud of it and learn from the process.




.

Thank you, Johnny. I've been trying to get that point across but you are much more eloquent.

get out of the way and let the pros work their magic. They certainly don't need me to be there telling them how to do their job.

amen!


Does anyone want to make the case that Johnny Rotten even had a brain cell? Yet, the Sex Pistols records were broadcast quality. I doubt they were in the studio when the mixing and mastering happened. Johnny was smart enough to let the experts do their job.

Grant has a good recording that will take him further than he is now. I think the essense of his songwriting talent and vocal ability were captured. It's a good step towards the next one. He should be proud of it and learn from the process.

I watched a documentary about their album.
It was one of those Behind The Scenes of Historic Albums documentaries.
Johnny Rotten WAS there the whole time.
He was pretty savvy about what he wanted, even if he lacked the training for producing.
Of course the producer & engineers did a great job as well.
I THINK that Steve Jones was there for most of it.
He played almost all of the bass as well as guitar parts.
I'm not sure how much of Glen Matlock's parts were kept.
When they played live, Sid Vicious was such a terrible bassist that they just turned his amp all the way down.
I don't think he's on their album at all.

All of yas, I truly appreciate your feedback... , You guys are absoluetly correct that I should have spent the extra nickel and the time.

I totally agree with both sides of the arg (about presence in the studio). In the case of George, he's definitely got the ears... We were a little bogged by some of his old equipment (which is breaking down, noticably) .

We systematically reviewed eack track, together, with a fine tooth comb. and I instructed on requirements For example, In Bf2, George was very good about working with me to capture aspecific ambience and to paint a specific picture. The song itself, the mix were both fine. We discussed at length and adjusted levels accordingly. We both mutually agreed on final outputs.

My whining isnt really about the songs (or the mixes) themselves. Its the mastering, which he outsourced (as I understand it)...

Scotty is absoluetly correct in that if the guy mastering instructs the mixer to reset a level, which might deviate from an agreed apon level, well that clearly isnt pro, so that requires the artist to do an over watch and ensure that deviations arent impacting the quality. (as it seems might be the case here, but which I failed to tend).

On the other hand, Johnny /YOd are absolutely correct in that you cant brow beat the engineeers. At some point I had to leave it in their hands, and simply rely on the notion they know what they are doing.

Therein lies the dilemma..

Johnny and Yod are correct that I can salvage this. But its gonna have to be with an escalated resource. Problem rigt now is I am busted broke so its not gonna happen soon... (And that's ultimately what I am crying about)


But thanks to all of you for your inputs. You guys are awsome!

aa

Grant relax brother, if it is fixable now you can fix it later! Record companies use to do this all the time! My advise would be put this one on the backburner you have stressed over it long enough. You know what needs to be done with it. continue on with YOUR writing process, get your house in order and pick this recording up when it is convenient for "you"

Grant relax brother, if it is fixable now you can fix it later! Record companies use to do this all the time! My advise would be put this one on the backburner you have stressed over it long enough. You know what needs to be done with it. continue on with YOUR writing process, get your house in order and pick this recording up when it is convenient for "you"

Amen brother... I'm just gonna let the universe unfold by itself for a little while ...

Grant relax brother, if it is fixable now you can fix it later! Record companies use to do this all the time! My advise would be put this one on the backburner you have stressed over it long enough. You know what needs to be done with it. continue on with YOUR writing process, get your house in order and pick this recording up when it is convenient for "you"

Amen brother... I'm just gonna let the universe unfold by itself for a little while ...

I have found by doing exactly that a higher power usually intervenes and these things kind of work themselves out! Hang in there brother!

I think that's the point of Dec 2012, "Chaos".

Again, I didn't think it was as bad as you had described. Of course, I'm hearing it through computer speakers. LOL

I found the bassist from "Crack The Sky" (Dave DeMarco) online today and he's available for hire, btw. I say that only to point out that it isn't as hard to find "great" as it might seem, no matter where one lives.

They need to eat, too. Yeah, it takes longer that way but you have something when it's done.

I watched a documentary about their album.
It was one of those Behind The Scenes of Historic Albums documentaries.
Johnny Rotten WAS there the whole time.
He was pretty savvy about what he wanted, even if he lacked the training for producing.

I suppose he'd have to be in the studio if they are recording him, right? And I think we should do our best to help a producer figure out who we are, and what we're going for, but ultimately we should let the experts do their job. A truly great producer can make a turd sound good.