General Music Chat

True. We have some very talented celtic musicians here locally, but none of them have the balls or creativity to do something Pogues-ish. They are all of the "traditional" mindset which all too often translates as "I can play every note perfectly but I have no idea what to do with it".

yes its the same back home..most of the "trad" players only play "trad" music (jigs and reels) as we call them...songs that have been passed down from generation to generation and they steer well clear of anything that has been written in the last 100/200 years....

the pogues are like the "forbidden music"..ive heard some "trad" bands play one or two pogues songs and they always go down well but it is as rare as chickens teeth....

like you said most "trad" players just sit and play...flawlessly..
but never try and write there own or even take a few liberties with the old songs...i could never have the disciplen to be a "trad" player but you have to admire there resolve and dedication.

Anthony this is one of the things that got me booted from the "traditional harpers" circles. It's kind of funny actually. See I am a big fan of Johnny Cash, and know alot of his songs. At one harp solo concert I did, alot of the local traditionalists showed up (probably to criticize everything I did, HA!). At the end of the show I got an encore, and I was struggling to think of what to play. I decided, while I COULD do yet another Turlough O'Carolan song, I wanted to shock them with something different. So I did an impromptu version of Johnny Cash's "Ring Of Fire". Sung it too. The reaction was hilarious. Got a standing O from the folks who clearly like the unexpected - and the traditionalists politely clapped while scowling at me. I got disinvited to several traditional celtic events after that.

Do I care? Naw. f**k em. If they are that stodgey, stuck up and ossified in their own methods, then I have no more to learn from them.
See I believe that one part of real Celtic music is the balls to change things, to switch it up, never do any song exactly the same way twice.

I guess the traddies disagree.

I think many people agree with that philosophy, Irminsul. Especially lead guitarists. How many times have we seen them outright change a piece of a song or the entire solo? Good example, Kirk Hammett never, ever, plays the final Fade to Black solo as it was on the album. Same with the song "Orion," he changes the last solo when it is done live. He does it with many Metallica songs.

Dimebag Darrell did the same, changed his solos live. So has just about every lead guitarist I have ever seen. They get annoyed with doing the same thing over and over, and want to be creative. The one thing I am not too keen on is changing a solo in a cover tune. If I was covering something I am not sure I would want to screw with the solo, I do not think the audience likes that all that much -- I know it sometimes annoys me. For instance, I was watching covers of Collective Soul's song "Shine" the other night, every person that did the solo changed it, and their solos stunk on ice. I also think sometimes they change them when they cannot handle the complexity of an original solo.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

Irminsul, you said, " . . . If they are that stodgey, stuck up and ossified in their own methods, then I have no more to learn from them."
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That was music to my ears.
Hey, traditions are great . . .
But, at one time, even the traditional music was new, eh?
Traditional music came about because enough people were open-minded enough to accept it . . .
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Of course they have no more to teach you; they have reached their self-imposed limits. And they expect you to accept their limits as your limits.
Sad, huh?
They have no more to teach you, because after grade school comes high school. After High School comes college, after college . . .
. . .
I'm not quite sure where you'd put their traditional music in that inept little analogy, but you get my drift.
Some people are resentful of progress, but - hey, that's their problem, eh?
. . . glad that the Beatles, Elvis, Yes, Santana, Beethoven, and any of 1,000 others didn't accept the limits of inferior minds . . . .

Right. It made me realize that "tradition" is a paradox: It only works when it is changing.