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#171392 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:39 pm
Actually the oldest book of the bible is Job and this is where the devil was first introduced. Written as a play, the devil was portrayed as the temptor of man.

The verses in Isaiah and Ezekial are interesting how they morph into a judgment on the King of Tyre, who had a daughter named "Europa" and was carried off by Zeus (in the form of a bull) to be raped in a cave at Mt Ida in Crete. This is the basis for greek civilization and western philosophy still today.

#171394 by Starfish Scott
Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:50 pm
Etu Malku wrote:I will mount the back of a cloud. I will be like unto Elyon.?
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.?


.?A bunch of "Cloud Mounters" they are.
lol really?

Sounds suspiciously like "pillow biters".

"Is Elyon a "cloud mounter" as well?
That could be bad.
It sounds like code to me.

And the last line with the clouds seems like something out of "half baked".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgkE3xoSHLU

Dave Chappelle s/b the one to say the last line properly.

#171401 by JCP61
Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:20 pm
Etu Malku wrote:In keeping with the flavor of the OP here is:

The Birth of the Devil

The concept of the Devil was a fairly late development in the monothiestic legacy. The early Hebrews attributed all events, whether good or bad, to the One God. He encapsulated both Darkness and Light, destruction and creation, corruption and purity. Such is clearly stated in

Isaiah 45:7;
?I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.?

In the Old Testament it is God Himself who slays the first born of Egypt, sends plagues and famine, strikes down with lightning, and demands of Abraham that he sacrifice his first born son. The idea of a separate evil only gradually arrives from the 2nd century B.C.

The myth of the Fall originates in The Book of Enoch, and is outside of the Canon. Yet by the time the New Testament was compiled the influence of Enoch had been absorbed, along with elements of the Persian Zoroastrian religion, Judea being under Persian rule from the 6th to 4th centuries B.C. In their cosmology there are two principles of Ahura Mazda, being creative, and Ahriman, being destructive. So evenly matched are they that the slightest flux can topple the balance, and mortal-kind are constantly being drawn to one side or the other. Originally the Devil was the shadow side of God, His dark aspect.

Mal?ak was the term employed for that aspect of God that was able to communicate with mortal kind. It was this concept that was translated into the concept of the angel. Only the shadow was able to communicate because the Light is too great for a human to bear, as with Zeus.

As the Hebrew religion evolved, so did this ?shadow?, until it broke away from God and became a separate power having its own free Will. However, with this separation came the natural dualistic attribution of God?s other characteristics, so that the Shadow also becomes His destructive and malign aspect, whilst the Light becomes everything good. In the Book of Jubilee, compiled approximately a hundred years after the Old Testament, this shadow has acquired the title of Mastema, a Hebrew word meaning ?adversity?. From this moment it is this Accusing Angel that becomes responsible for all the darker things previously imputed to God. It was the Mastema who hardened the Pharoah?s heart and assisted the Egyptian sorcerers against Israel.

The concept of the Evil One is essential in any religion that preaches redemption, for there must be something to be overcome.

Later Christianity adopted the legend of the Fall, a theme most popular throughout the Middle East. The following Canaanite scripture was recorded five centuries before the Hebrew scribes produced the Old Testament, and concerns the legend of Shaher, who was born of ?the Pit?, Helel, which is the womb of the Mother Goddess.

?How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel?s son Shaher! Thou didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to Heaven. Above the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north. I will mount the back of a cloud. I will be like unto Elyon.?

Compare with Isaiah 14:12-14 as we know it now;

?How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart: ?I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.?


I could take exception to parts of this, but for the most part very accurate.

Just as an example,
The Zoroastrian idea of the children of light vs. children of darkness, while an exelent recruiting tool, is not important for the revelation of personal salvation in Christianity, and is added on as Christianity replaced pantheism across the Mediterranean.
the concept of the good verses evil battle grows up, as you say, along with the dominance of monotheism in Israel in a similar fashion.

you could even make the case that as Christianity integrates it self in the local social order that it must by definition become anti-Christianity.

#171406 by DainNobody
Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:30 pm
and we come full circle back to Lucifer being thrown out of heaven.. for rebellion? no, he knew for a fact he was of a higher order than a man, but God wanted Lucifer to pay homage to this new creature made out of clay..and the irony is Lucifer worshipped God and loved God much more than your average run of the mill human today, and they blame Lucifer for causing the gradually increasing decadence in today's world?, where your percentage of people even admitting to believing in God has fallen drastically... oh they will blame Lucifer for this

#171408 by Etu Malku
Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:34 pm
Lucifer was originally the greatest of the Seraphim and refused to bow before Adam, as God demanded. For how can a Son of Fire bow to a Son of Clay? As punishment Lucifer was flung into the Abyss, followed by one third of the angels.

A Sufic version of this tale exists in which Lucifer is seen as the angel
who loved God the most. His refusal to bow before Adam was not out
of pride, but through obedience to a previous ruling that God had given to bow before none but Him. In this version the Devil suffers terribly from God?s inability to forgive him, and is most jealous and bitter towards humankind as the new object of God?s love.

A further interpretation exists that the Fall was a result of jealousy
when God appointed Lucifer?s brother, Jesual, to be the Son. In
response Lucifer gives birth from his head to Sin, and copulating with
her He goes on to father Death.

Most versions agree that the Devil was once viceroy of God, and in
his original form he is said to have had twelve wings. Gregory of
Nazianus states that before the Fall he had worn the other Angels as a ?garment, transcending all in glory..?

In the Gospel of Bartholomew the Devil states ;
?At first I was called Satan-el, Messenger of God, but when
I rejected the image of God my name was called Satanas, that
is an angel that keepeth Hell.. I was formed the first angel.?

Even St. Jerome agrees that the Devil will eventually be reinstated at
God?s side as a power of Heaven. Lucifer is seen as the dying and
reborn Son of the Morning, the balancing counterpart and Mastema of Christ.

#171410 by Slacker G
Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:39 pm
Actually, in all honesty, Satan rejected my music. :cry:

#171415 by Starfish Scott
Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:46 pm
Slacker G wrote:Actually, in all honesty, Satan rejected my music. :cry:


Did he tell you that it sounded manufactured? lol

#171424 by Slacker G
Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:33 pm
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:
Slacker G wrote:Actually, in all honesty, Satan rejected my music. :cry:


Did he tell you that it sounded manufactured? lol


Not only that, but he told me that every one of my songs sounded exactly the same. :shock:

#171425 by DainNobody
Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:39 pm
Etu, your mastery of the occult is astonishing..good job..

#171426 by DainNobody
Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:41 pm
hey Etu. have you ever run across anything in your manuscripts about Lucifer being one of the big power-houses of the musical industry while he was a resident of heaven? did the angel play timbrels or something?

#171429 by Etu Malku
Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:52 pm
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:hey Etu. have you ever run across anything in your manuscripts about Lucifer being one of the big power-houses of the musical industry while he was a resident of heaven? did the angel play timbrels or something?

Lucifer was a beautiful angel covered in musical instruments so he could sing the praises of God
Ezekial 28:13
"The workmanship of they tabrets and of they pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

.

#171447 by JCP61
Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 pm
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:
Slacker G wrote:Actually, in all honesty, Satan rejected my music. :cry:


Did he tell you that it sounded manufactured? lol


lol~~~

#171449 by JCP61
Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:27 pm
Etu Malku wrote:
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:hey Etu. have you ever run across anything in your manuscripts about Lucifer being one of the big power-houses of the musical industry while he was a resident of heaven? did the angel play timbrels or something?

Lucifer was a beautiful angel covered in musical instruments so he could sing the praises of God
Ezekial 28:13
"The workmanship of they tabrets and of they pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

.


now, now, out of context prophesy is a dangerous thing..

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