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#106795 by CraigMaxim
Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:32 am
KLUGMO wrote:
The galleries embraced Tiger yesterday CRAIG. I guess there's more forgivness in the world than you would like.



Klugmo,

It is dishonest to misrepresent my views PURPOSEFULLY.

I know that I explained already, that there is a difference between FORGIVING someone's actions, and EXCUSING them.

When you provide myriad reasons that Tiger committed these acts, and suggest that he was helpless in committing them... you are EXCUSING his behavior. You are essentially condoning it, when you approach it in that way.

The reality, is that NOTHING can MAKE US abandon our character, but we ourselves. Character is not something ANYONE can take away from you. You have to surrender it, by CHOICE.

When you excuse this behavior, you are condoning and even facilitating such immoral behavior in the world. Everyone in this world influences someone. Do you really want to influence them toward immorality, rather than responsibility and morality?

#106798 by KLUGMO
Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:28 pm
It was never suggested that you excuse him only forgive him with understanding that he is human and was raised in less than perfect circumstances. Don't put words in MY mouth.

#106799 by CraigMaxim
Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:29 pm
philbymon wrote:
:roll: Craig, you oh so humblish yet extremely pompous ass - it's one thing to acknowledge the expertise of someone in the area of any particular craft. It's quite another to put yourself in the role of "house expert" in issues of morality, philosophy, or "spiritual pursuits." But that's what you like to do, isn't it, my friend?


PHILOSOPHER (phi·los·o·pher)

Pronunciation: \fə-ˈlä-s(ə-)fər\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English philosophe, philosophre, from Anglo-French, from Latin philosophus, from Greek philosophos, from phil- + sophia wisdom, from sophos wise

Date: 14th century

1)
a : a person who seeks wisdom or enlightenment : scholar, thinker
b : a student of philosophy

2)
a : a person whose philosophical perspective makes meeting trouble with equanimity easier
b : an expounder of a theory in a particular area of experience
c : one who philosophizes

---

PHILOSOPHY:

Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. It is distinguished from other ways of addressing fundamental questions (such as mysticism, myth, or the arts) by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument. The word "Philosophy" comes from the Greek φιλοσοφία [philosophia], which literally means "love of wisdom".

---


I am a Philosopher Phil.

The term is not synonymous with "God" or "Savior" or "Superhero"

I am a husband, a musician... and a philosopher.

Don't make more of it, than it is, but don't make less of it, than it is either.

By definition, a philosopher is a seeker of enlightenment and knowledge, but also an EXPOUNDER of his philosophies. He has studied philosophy, is a deep and rational thinker, and often a voice or guide for others, on ethics, meaning, reason, etc...

Philosophers also, have often acted as counterweights to prevailing public opinion of their times, which has made them as UNPOPULAR as they are POPULAR, and perhaps more-so. Philosophers have been put to death for their philosophical positions, which are usually well-reasoned, but have often instilled fear and resentment in others, to the point of hatred, persecution and even murder.

Historical philosophers have often spoken out against their own religions (to help restore them to reason) , spoken against their own cultures, and their own countries. This happens by necessity, because a true philosopher, values truth and reason, above loyalty, conformity or even patriotism.

The pursuit of TRUTH, and the adherence to that TRUTH, is among the highest pursuits and highest virtues, of a philosopher.

I don't criticise you for being a handyman, or musician.

Why criticize me for being a philosopher?

Would you criticise me for being a sculptor? A politician? An artist? A physicist? An Olympic swimmer?

#106802 by CraigMaxim
Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:02 pm
KLUGMO wrote:It was never suggested that you excuse him only forgive him with understanding that he is human and was raised in less than perfect circumstances. Don't put words in MY mouth.



I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You provided a laundry list, of why he did what he did, as if it were unavoidable, then you lumped him in with half the men of the world, as if that justified him, or at least should provide him immunity from judgement.

And in the midst of all the EXCUSING of his behavior, due to his "terrible" upbringing, you actually had no problem however, of judging me, for chastising the behavior of this famous golfer.

KLUGMO wrote:
The galleries embraced Tiger yesterday CRAIG. I guess there's more forgivness in the world than you would like.


We have wildly divergent views on this subject.

You seem to believe that such sins, should be immediately forgiven... which for you, also seems to mean, not talking about them, and forgetting they occurred, but offering prayers in private for such individuals.

I, on the other hand, believe that the breakdown of the family, is a chronic problem of epic proportions. That it is breaking down important social mores, which help provide emotional security and well-being, and more balanced and healthy individuals, and by extension... a more healthy and stable society.

This issue is of CRITICAL importance.

And what is required is MORE ATTENTION being paid to it. MORE judgement and condemnation being leveled against such behaviors. MORE societal shame being placed upon it.

Those are the actions, that help MOLD and SHAPE, societal opposition to such behaviors, so that offense at them, becomes MORE PROMINENT, and helps act as a deterrent... helps enlighten the public to how extensive the damage TRULY is, and that it extends FAR BEYOND the few individuals in a single family.

And while YOU may see Woods merely as a "normal" weak male, no more significant than any other male home-wrecker... It is not only "I" that disagrees with your position, but also the head of Augusta National, where he is playing this week. As well as some of the greatest golfers of all time, who have chastised and criticised Woods publicly, for POORLY representing the sport they love, and his position as a world ambassador to the sport, not to mention his public stature and influence among younger fans.

It is like suggesting that a President, who accidentally pushes a button and starts a nuclear war, has committed no more serious an event, than another individual shooting a single neighbor by mistake.

The difference is PROPORTION.

Those who have influence over multitudes, have a far more serious responsibility, because their actions can have far more serious consequences and repercussions.

#106803 by philbymon
Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:07 pm
:shock: Philosopher? :roll: Does this mean that you aren't a prophet anymore? :lol: Gee, you're always something extra spayshul, ain'tcha?

OMG I'm ROFLMFAO!

Yes, Craig, a philosopher seeks enlightenment & knowledge - of great universal truths, dumbass, not the every detail of other ppl's lives! See, that's called being a "busybody." That's called "nosy." It doesn't require any deep or rational thought, & as you've shown us over & over. You don't seem to be capable of such things, prefering to stick with the tabloid mentality & the Pharisee's eagerness to jump to conclusions about ppl.

You don't need to seek anything, Craig, cuz you read about it in a book, or it's so obvious to your little pinhead that that which you conclude about anything is the perfect answer. That's why you can metaphorically spank ppl all the time for thier transgressions or even differing opinions, isn't it?

Being a "counterweight to prevailing public opinion" doesn't equate to being a borish finger-pointer, Craig. I'll bet that there have been innumerable "philosophers" that were put to death for being insufferably borish assholes, too, & not because they "instilled fear and resentment in others."

Having a viewpoint is one thing, Craig, but being judgemental, wordy, irrationally borish & overemotionally rude is something else entirely.

I would criticise you for anything that you do that bugs me, dumbass, since I'm dealing with you on a one-to-one basis. Call it "persecution" if you will, but being a philosopher is a fine thing in its place, & this ain't the place, twit. You wanna change your religion? Go to your church & change it. If you wanna deal with pure truth, then don't ask for opinions from ppl so you can cut them to shreds to make yourself look bigger. All of this is obviously about simply that, Craig - your irrational drive to be accepted for being that which you are not - a great thinker who is always right - instead of just being accepting of yourself - a man who makes mistakes like any other, who gets overemotional when he's told he's wrong about anything & has a lot of social issues that need working on.

You would certainly criticise my handyman work if it was substandard, if the ceiling fan I installed fell on your head. I will criticise you for being a busybody who cannot keep his mouth shut, who always judges others, esp when they are wrong only in your not so humble opinion. I will criticise you for being a hypocrite whenever I think it's called for, after you've done the same to me & so many others when it wasn't. I will oppose you, esp when you push forth the vanity that only you can be a deep thinker, so the rest of us, by definition, are certainly wrong.

Don't sugar-coat your assholishness, Craig. You wanna be a big deal to ppl? Write a frikken book & include all your deep thoughts in it. Don't go around pushing your wares on others. Instead, let the market speak for the quality of your words & your views. Oh, that's right! They aren't supposed to be popular ideas! Well, quit pushing them in my face anyway, dimwit. You aren't ever going to get any positive reinforcement from me, I promise you that, as long as you're a borish prick, a bigotted hypocrite, or a guy that likes to use as many words as he can to prove his intelligence to one & all.

You ain't that smart, Craig, if all you can do is point out the failings & sins of others. That just makes you a jerkwad that no one likes. You don't dredge up feelings of fear or resentment in me, bub. You disgust me in ways I would normally save for a diseased corpse, or a rabid dog. You may be dangerous if let to roam about spewing your poisons, but you're easily dispatched with a few well-placed words of reality & wisdom, just like any other borish opinionated asshole.
Last edited by philbymon on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#106807 by CraigMaxim
Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:31 pm


Phil, your irrational arguments and outdated way of thinking, gets pummeled in debates with me on a daily basis. But what is more sad than humorous, is that you are so clueless, you think you are actually making good arguments, and so you keep coming back for more.

That makes you a fool... not intelligent, and not a good judge of character.

Your venemous insults would hurt me more, were it not for the fact, that they come from a selfish, biased, sexist and racist, little man of merely average intelligence, who is so unable to admit his own faults publicly, that he launches into tirades of hatred, when any of his own sins are exposed.

It's alot like being accussed of being smelly and hairy, by Bigfoot. :shock:

Image

Last edited by CraigMaxim on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#106812 by philbymon
Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:45 pm
:roll:

#106851 by KLUGMO
Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:25 pm
I Love you guys.

#106867 by philbymon
Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:10 pm
:shock:

Well, I have to say that this response surprized me, & you haven't been able to do that for a very very long time, Craig!

:lol:

#106870 by CraigMaxim
Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:30 pm
philbymon wrote::shock:

Well, I have to say that this response surprized me, & you haven't been able to do that for a very very long time, Craig!

:lol:


Image

#106910 by KLUGMO
Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:43 pm
HA,HA

#106922 by Kramerguy
Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:11 pm
I don't care.

Really - nobody takes personal responsibility for ANYTHING anymore, at least, nobody in the public spotlight does-

They blame drugs, booze, sex addiction, gambling addiction, addiction to pain killers, sleeping pills, and addiction to 1000 bad behaviors. Everything but themselves.

I refuse to even consider it news, or any of my business or concern.

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