General Music Chat

Never assume you know how anything will work out when dealing with your fellow men.
What I though was going to be a meeting to discuss what needed tweaking on our demo CD ended up being a series of votes generally split 3/2 on approval / disapproval of different aspects of the whole project.
It concluded with a unanimous vote to scrap the whole freaking project.
So it's back to square one for NKF.
Pick four songs from the 20 or so, practice till perfected.
Then, ( again decided by a 3/2 vote ), return to a different studio and try again.
The vocalists felt that they would not ever be happy with a simple adjustment nor were they comfortable with the present studio situation. With that in mind we agreed that if they were not going to be satisfied with the vocal tracks there was no point in putting any farther investment into it.
I personally feel the current project is salvageable. But if my band-mates want to make a clean slate run at it again .
I support them %110

You should tell your bandmates, that they are the standard bearers for Christian bands, to us, here on Bandmix.

I've been quite proud, that your band, seems to have had the least problems of any of the other bands represented here.

Don't get worldly on us!

Sometimes having another studio mix your existing CD might do wonders for you. I wouldn't scrap anything you did. While you might go ahead and try another studio I think it's also worth a chance to send your existing CD to another studio and tell them how you want it to sound and let them re-mix it. There's a great studio in Blue Springs, Missouri called Soundworks, the owner has done wonders for us. His name is Andy Oxman. You could contact him at aoxman@sbcglobal.net. He does a lot of re-mixing for BIG studios all over the U.S. I think your studio version you posted here has merit. Soundworks is where we are eventually going to do a full CD (hopefully this year).

A different studio isnt going to miraculously enable them to lay down a better vocal performance.
Now... if the current studio isnt listening to what you all want, or is giving you lip service about how this or that is just fine, but you know it isnt fine... then go elsewhere.

On one hand, I think they might be a little freaked out because they hear themselves very clearly for the first time, and may be overreacting.
On the other hand - never put something out there that you feel bad about. It has a way of haunting you.

I'd have to agree with Craig. You've got a tight and neat little outfit but the more you talk it seems that more problems arise within the whole political framework of it. It's good that you all talk about it but don't let talking stand in the way of it, you've been talking about this since I joined up on here.

I would look at it as a demo, and finish the project. You can always go record it again when the situation is right. If you're not happy with the mix don't be afraid to try another engineer.

I agree with Jimmy on this.

You can always re-do tracks that can be improved. And gtZip and Bob have some good ideas too. Maybe consider having it mastered somewhere else for a final polish... although if you're not happy with the engineering, you can't do that.

Surely there are individual tracks you guys find done well?

What do OTHER PEOPLE (not family or close friends) think? Studio work freaks out alot of people the first go-round. I remember some people in your band complaining that they were upset, because the songs were getting to a place that you can't duplicate live.

That's a naive rookie comment.

Virtually NO BAND can duplicate live, what they do in the studio, Guitar tracks and even vocals are often doubled or even tripled. Unless you have that many vocalists or guitarists, you can't duplicate that live. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with studio work being more full and polished than what you accomplish live.... it is the NORM in this business.

I hope you tell your band what I said earlier.

While they may not be at EGO stage just yet, it sounds like the beginning symptoms of this. Nip it in the bud, before it ruins the band.

No offense, but you guys are the "blind leading the blind" right now. You need to trust your engineer a little more, and some of the studio veterans here. Studio work gets much more EASY and ROUTINE, after the first go around, because everyone understands how it works, and they become more professional about it, and know what they need to do, or what is possible, the next times you go in.

And crush EGO (the bad kind) as soon as it raises it's ugly head.

My band before last, was not nearly as good as my last band, yet, right as songs started coming together a little bit, they were talking TOUR BUS, and their families were arguing over who would ride in it. I'm not even joking. I just looked at that picture, and shook my head at the spectacle.

A little bit of success, really screws with some people's heads.

That demo you posted, had a very full and rich sound once it got into it.

It can be tweaked just a little, and you have a perfectly good song ready to go on your demo. Why waste that money and time if you don't absolutely need to?

Calm your boys down.

It's only life or death, if you let it KILL your band's relationships.

Without that, you have plenty of chances in the future, to try other studios, or record better arrangements later.

If the problem is being practiced up more, then that is reasonable. Take some time and practice more, work on the arrangements or whatever you are looking to do. But then go in and BUILD on what you already have.

If vocals are the band's biggest beef, keep the karaoke instrumental tracks (masters), for heaven's sake, & work on the vocals until you're confortable with them enough to go back & do them over. You've spent bucks on this. There's no need to toss it & make that investment a waste. Complete the project, if only as a learning tool. Chances are, if you complete it, that you WILL do better next time, & can compare the two & SEE your progress.

I'd still try to sell them on this. No one makes a perfect recording the 1st time out.

This is not your final effort "for posterity" & such. It's a work in progress. Let it progress!

Are these huge issues with the studio itself, or are the reluctants' problems with the performances? Either way (unless the studio is truly THAT bad), I'd stumble on through, & have a framework to begin perfecting the next recording from. Once you have it in hand, you can decide on the finer points of what went wrong, what went right, what could be a little better, etc., & go from there to make a better one next time.

Just my take on it.

The last band I recorded with had the opposite problem. They were sloppy, & once that 1st project was completed, they wanted to move on & slop thier way through the next project. They rushed everything through, & the recordings sounded that way. They only thought of the next biggest thing, & never wanted to bother with redoing anything, & they never learned from thier mistakes.

Theres a lot of ways to look at this.

Number one I think its cool that you guys had a vote and still believe in what your doing. I mean I guess groups should be a democracy and for that you should be applauded.

Number two, if your vocalist is really unhappy with the way its turning out its probably best to trust his instincts. Im like others here just use it for a demo, but I know that it gets expensive real fast so that may be a bigger issue than Im sensing.

George as a guitarist I would suggest using these tracks to try and come up with interesting guitar parts. Whether you use these songs or not isnt the issue, when Ive listened to you guys music you stay in a lot of the same keys and chord structures so any ideas you have may be able to move intoo another song. What im getting at here is build an identity as a guitarist and your own licks to use in various songs. All of us on here as guitarst have our pet riffs and licks that we use over and over song to song. I shared in another post things I would personally do to spice the recording up. I mean its great to record what you ca do live, but what if a few monthes after the recording for some reason the band does split up? The you would have a recording that you felt you gave 100% too. You guys are developing and moving along well in my opinion and also in the opinion of folks here. If people are uncomfortable with what you did then hey just start over and dont let it brew into a breakdown of the structure of your band. Just use it as a learning situation to make sure you are totally ready to go in and record again.

Just take my advice with a grain of salt I dont know the personal workings of your band. I hope your band can use this as a positive and not make it a negative.

Keep Rockin

I have to agree with gtzip. Vocalist probably heard what they sounded like clearly for the first time and I KNOW I hate hearing myself sing thru playback. Do you ever get used to hearing the way you sound to other people?

Hey Sans, What you guys have going on is really good. BUT,,,
Go back and listen to all the little things ,and identify everything you don't like.
JW had one of the best copy recordings up here,Craig is great at recording,Ratsass,posted some music that left me wondering ,how he did it.

The list goes on ,but all these guys have this, going in their favor, TIMING, PITCH.

Rythm tracks are perfect. Tuning is as close as possible.

I can hear how good you guys are playing,,,, go back and fix these SIMPLE PROBLEMS.

Lot's of good advice here. The only thing I have to ad is this (and it may have already been covered by some of our more wordy friends-lol!):

What is your goal? Take a deep breath and meet with the band. Review what the intentions (desired results) were for this project in the first place. Are you still on track with those goals? If not, what needs to be done to get back on track?

I've let studio projects crash and burn before, and I've settled for something less than what I wanted when I suddenly discovered that my bandmates and I were not on the same page.

My suggestion to you is definitely NOT to scrap your work, but let cooler heads prevail, think out the process from a strictly logical point of view, and fix what needs to be fixed.

As a band (as opposed to an individual-like myself), there are a lot of egos to please. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just human nature. I won't go back into how humans are basically selfish cratures (Craig will whip me again! Lol!), but to some extent, everyone involved is going to need some level of satisfaction. That being said, don't let someone's personal wants outweigh the goals of the unit...

Okay, now I'm rambling and getting...wordy.

Wow.
Great comments and advice.
We are tight as ever as a band in our social aspects, perhaps tighter from the experience. No issues there really just some differing opinions:
We get tighter as time passes musically as well.
I don't think the rub is so much ego, as chemistry, or rather the lack there of. The boys felt the engineer was "pushy" and not really trying to complement the band. We told him more than once we want this right that money was not at issue but he seemed quite ready to rush us out, to some anyways. And I have to admit there were occasions when he thought it sound "good" and I was like WTF ?? Other times I agreed with him.
I definitely will use the CD to my advantage to work on my guitar skills.
And I have a "copy of the mastered songs" not the raw tracts themselves so sending it to another (or working on it myself) well, not much to be done at that point.

It is however ... a done deal. Ray has been in contact with another studio whom some very talented muso friends of his recommended.
We are kind of a special project ( special ed ) I think it will take a really special patient ant talented individual to bring out our best.

I was against the idea at first but support my brothers %100.
So April it is. I'll let you all help me to judge if it was the right decision when I have music in hand.

Thanks and God bless.