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I have never convicted you as criminals and I have never tried to get you to believe in some mysterious higher power that caused the Big Bang, have I? you guys/gals are high on my list as respectful citizens with the greatest of manners, and all of us get unruly at times even those proclaiming to be Christians or whatever on this board, afterall, god did not make us perfect, or if he did at one time make us perfect, we can see for ourselves our natures are no longer perfect, (wars, rape, murders to name a few of out misgivings,
... although I believe in some sort of higher power, I can not guarantee myself in my mind, that I am factual about that that being the case.. maybe a higher power produced the universe and parallel universes and unseen heavens of different types but there is no guarantee this higher power is even with us in today's world here on earth.. if ever there was a time
I just wanted my atheist friends to know that just because you do not believe in a god, don't ever let anybody tell you that without accepting Christ and his father you are doomed to hell, or some sort of punishment for not having the proper "belief system" never forget Jesus said something akin to "many in the last days will believe they are part of his flock, but he is going to tell them, he knows them not" ...yes, there is some verse in the bible that similarly states this, and I'm not looking it up, but just rest assured, you have nothing to fear about a "belief system" since some believers will be rejected.. and others with no "belief system" will be admitted, if that is true

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dayne. My take on it has always been that IF there is a god .... he/she/it couldn't possibly be so insecure as to need us to constantly fall to our knees to shower praise upon he/she/if let alone be so small,
petty, and malevolent to actually punish anyone for not doing so.

That said, I'd like to wish anyone celebrating Yom Kipur a Good Yontif (happy holiday)!

Dayne, the answer to your question is yes.
That was a question, right?

As a former atheist, let me assure you that there IS a God and all He "demands" is that we trust Him.

Those who do will be blessed in ways that can not be seen in advance of trusting, and those who curse God will be cursed. Certainly the largest percentage of people are somewhere in the middle of those positions.

Undefiled religion, as defined by God, is taking care of widows and orphans. Yet everyone, including atheists and agnostics, seems to have their own philosophy about God to manipulate others. I would encourage anyone/everyone to read the Book for themselves.

"manipulate"....yod said "MANIPULATE"!!!!! no, really?

thank "GOD" that religion (including christianity) has never been used to "manipulate"!

Why all the arrogance?

I've never said that religion isn't used to manipulate...I've only pointed out that religion is a belief system. Atheism is also a belief system used to manipulate others. God is not a religious system. He's a supernatural being capable of being personal.

I was an atheist for 15 years, who set out to prove that the bible was hooey. I was at least intellectually honest about my thesis, and spent 4 obsessive months in 1989 at the Dallas public library cross-checking it with history and science. You should try it.

The way a Baptist explains Creation has little to do with what the Bible actually says, but putting your faith in evolution is even more problematic, since the 2nd law of Thermodynamics says that matter is in a state of decay, not evolving.

Throw a fish on the shore every day for a billion years and it will die and rot every day....not turn into a monkey. Only the willfully foolish buy into the evolutionary theory, since there is absolutely no evidence of one species turning into another....but go ahead if that helps you make it through the day avoiding the most important questions of your life and ultimately, your death.

That is entirely consistent with Creation, as given in the original hebrew language, btw.

The hebrew word "yom" is rendered as "day" but it's first and primary definition is "age or epoch". The new-earthers try to force that into a 24 hour period when there is no reason to do so.
You can't have a 24 hour day when the Sun isn't created until the 3rd "yom". Heck, a day is 6 months at the north/south pole even now!?

You might like reading "The Fingerprint of God" by Astro-physicist Hugh Ross.

I do appreciate you admitting that no species ever turned into another species. That is enough to show evolution is flawed. There had to be a beginning somewhere.

You can't get something from nothing. Everything must have a beginning. This is where evolution utterly fails.

yod wrote:Why all the arrogance?

I've never said that religion isn't used to manipulate...I've only pointed out that religion is a belief system. Atheism is also a belief system used to manipulate others.

ted, i think you've mistaking my being incredulous w being arrogant!

as for atheism being a "belief system"....EVERYTHING is a "belief system"! i "believe" if i practice my use of melodic minor scales i will be able to plug them into dominant seventh chords in cool and hip ways! (hasn't happened yet....but i "religiously" keep at it!)

now as for atheism t being used to manipulate...again, what hasn't or CAN'T be used to "manipulate"?

still, i don't see how you can compare the two.....no atheists have ever waged war based on their beliefs or manipulated religion for Crusades or "Holy" jihads.

RUI Musik wrote:I'm not sure how being a former atheist means that you know God exists. If anything, atheism is the opposite side of the same penny - both involve someone claiming they KNOW the answers.

gotta disagree there.

i'm an atheist and have NEVER claimed to KNOW god doesn't exist. i BELIEVE he doesn't. that's very different than "someone claiming they KNOW the answers".

Planetguy wrote:ted, i think you've mistaking my being incredulous w being arrogant!

I sincerely apologize for reading that wrong. Sorry, should have known that.

.no atheists have ever waged war based on their beliefs or manipulated religion for Crusades or "Holy" jihads.

Are you kidding???? Many more millions have died because of atheists than religious wars.

Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot....just in the last century. ALL of them were waging a war against the belief in God in their respective nations.