General Chat (Non-Music-Related)

Well-spoke guy. I for one am tired of my tax dollars going to prop up a bully nation. If they want to attack Iran I say go for it, just don't expect us to bail them out. But I'll go a step further; no foreign aid to anyone!

Well-spoke guy. I for one am tired of my tax dollars going to prop up a bully nation. If they want to attack Iran I say go for it, just don't expect us to bail them out. But I'll go a step further; no foreign aid to anyone!

WoW Talk about being racist... I take it you cant stand the Jews? Calling them a bully nation? Israel and other Jewish entities has been persecuted in every form possible for centuries, and all you can say is that they are bullies? Wow!

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me.

i've been staying out of this cos i don't have a horse in this race. (well, truth be told BOTH my horse and myself DO have some views on things but we're trying to pace ourselves)

as far as persecution being centuries old...well, sadly that ain't quite so.

nazi germany centuries old? sadly no. that's very recent history.

my parents ran away to california back in the late 40's when anti semitism was quite rampant there. mind you, my father was not looking to join a country club....he was just looking for a job. they were just looking for an apt to rent. let's just say that didn't work out so well for them.

fast forward to the '80's when my wife and i were living in fayetteville ar....there were several places that wouldn't hire me....bad enough i was from ny....but daaaaham, you one of dem jooooooo new yawkers!

fast forward to the '90's we move to mid missouri and the first house we go to look at to rent.....the owner looks us up and down and then says w a sneer "lieberman...that's one a them joosh names ain't it?" my wife and i looked at each... she said (before i could) "yeah. it is. see ya"

so, sadly we still have a ways to go.

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

As far as being a race, here's an interest, but long, article on the subject which concludes they are: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... t-1.428664

But also, people really don't understand the ramifications of being "persecuted for centuries" or care, which is why is so easy to dismissed it. Like said above, this isn't ancient history, and its something that you carry with you all the way down to your genetics. I've read the history of the Jewish people and they have been treated like the scourge of the Christian world, as well as have suffered multiple incidents of outright genocide. It's as insensitive when people who tell black people that they need to "get over" slavery, or the American Indians need to "get over" losing their land.

There are never enough years to where you "get over" having your soul squashed. Irish, German, Polish, and Italian immigrants have just migrated into the regular white race. Whether they're rich or poor, they're still white. The media caters to them, they can have holidays where everybody thinks it's cool to be them for a day. They're just seen as "white." So it's easy for them to just get over the few short years they were treated as the scourge of America during the immigration period. They don't have to deal with it any longer.

I can tell you for myself that I deal with not being white every day. Yes, I can behave and act like nothing bothers me, but I deal with the fact that every day I lose opportunities because people don't like how I look or the fact that I'm not part of the acceptable skin color, that the world lies to me and say that I can have anything I want if I just "believe" when I know that's not true. I know if I were white and had my voice, I'd be way further in my career than I am. That when people see me as being non-white, they expect me to sound like a black singer and when I don't, they're disappointed. I get it from black people too because of all the social conditioning. That I swear I can feel the thoughts of my mother who carried me that I was unwanted and that I try like a damndest to convince myself that I do matter, but I suffer bouts of horrible depression because I continually can't convince myself that I belong here. I mean, just during the movie "The Hunger Games" a great number of people tweeted that they were pissed off that one of the lead characters was black, and the comments sounded like a bunch of Klansmen. And when the media marketed the movie, they showed only the three white characters because they knew if they showed any of the non-white characters, the white people wouldn't go see it, meaning the film would flop. So no, there's some stuff you just don't get over . . . ever.

Chaeya

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

As far as being a race, here's an interest, but long, article on the subject which concludes they are: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... t-1.428664

But also, people really don't understand the ramifications of being "persecuted for centuries" or care, which is why is so easy to dismissed it. Like said above, this isn't ancient history, and its something that you carry with you all the way down to your genetics. I've read the history of the Jewish people and they have been treated like the scourge of the Christian world, as well as have suffered multiple incidents of outright genocide. It's as insensitive when people who tell black people that they need to "get over" slavery, or the American Indians need to "get over" losing their land.

There are never enough years to where you "get over" having your soul squashed. Irish, German, Polish, and Italian immigrants have just migrated into the regular white race. Whether they're rich or poor, they're still white. The media caters to them, they can have holidays where everybody thinks it's cool to be them for a day. They're just seen as "white." So it's easy for them to just get over the few short years they were treated as the scourge of America during the immigration period. They don't have to deal with it any longer.

I can tell you for myself that I deal with not being white every day. Yes, I can behave and act like nothing bothers me, but I deal with the fact that every day I lose opportunities because people don't like how I look or the fact that I'm not part of the acceptable skin color, that the world lies to me and say that I can have anything I want if I just "believe" when I know that's not true. I know if I were white and had my voice, I'd be way further in my career than I am. That when people see me as being non-white, they expect me to sound like a black singer and when I don't, they're disappointed. I get it from black people too because of all the social conditioning. That I swear I can feel the thoughts of my mother who carried me that I was unwanted and that I try like a damndest to convince myself that I do matter, but I suffer bouts of horrible depression because I continually can't convince myself that I belong here. I mean, just during the movie "The Hunger Games" a great number of people tweeted that they were pissed off that one of the lead characters was black, and the comments sounded like a bunch of Klansmen. And when the media marketed the movie, they showed only the three white characters because they knew if they showed any of the non-white characters, the white people wouldn't go see it, meaning the film would flop. So no, there's some stuff you just don't get over . . . ever.

Chaeya

Wow! With your voice the sky is the limit! IMO your not making it in the music world is not "white folks fault' I am sorry you feel that it is! The doubts you have about yourself are human doubts! I have them and I think most people do! With all due respect some of your other posts sound like you are really wanting to do original music. That is a little closed minded (please don't break at the sword it scares me LOL)! I was reading how hard a time Shania Twain had until Mutt discovered her. She was doing some cover music as well! I strongly believe that making it in the music biz. requires a superhuman tenacity! It also requires luck and an open mind to try different things like relocating to an area that will apreciate your voice. That may not be in the cards for you i.e. family children keeping you stuck where you are. As a somewhat white guy which is what some people call me I NEVER look at a musicians race IMO music transcends race. By stating what you said that is kind of a cop out. Please don't hurt me for saying that

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

As far as being a race, here's an interest, but long, article on the subject which concludes they are: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... t-1.428664

But also, people really don't understand the ramifications of being "persecuted for centuries" or care, which is why is so easy to dismissed it. Like said above, this isn't ancient history, and its something that you carry with you all the way down to your genetics. I've read the history of the Jewish people and they have been treated like the scourge of the Christian world, as well as have suffered multiple incidents of outright genocide. It's as insensitive when people who tell black people that they need to "get over" slavery, or the American Indians need to "get over" losing their land.

There are never enough years to where you "get over" having your soul squashed. Irish, German, Polish, and Italian immigrants have just migrated into the regular white race. Whether they're rich or poor, they're still white. The media caters to them, they can have holidays where everybody thinks it's cool to be them for a day. They're just seen as "white." So it's easy for them to just get over the few short years they were treated as the scourge of America during the immigration period. They don't have to deal with it any longer.

I can tell you for myself that I deal with not being white every day. Yes, I can behave and act like nothing bothers me, but I deal with the fact that every day I lose opportunities because people don't like how I look or the fact that I'm not part of the acceptable skin color, that the world lies to me and say that I can have anything I want if I just "believe" when I know that's not true. I know if I were white and had my voice, I'd be way further in my career than I am. That when people see me as being non-white, they expect me to sound like a black singer and when I don't, they're disappointed. I get it from black people too because of all the social conditioning. That I swear I can feel the thoughts of my mother who carried me that I was unwanted and that I try like a damndest to convince myself that I do matter, but I suffer bouts of horrible depression because I continually can't convince myself that I belong here. I mean, just during the movie "The Hunger Games" a great number of people tweeted that they were pissed off that one of the lead characters was black, and the comments sounded like a bunch of Klansmen. And when the media marketed the movie, they showed only the three white characters because they knew if they showed any of the non-white characters, the white people wouldn't go see it, meaning the film would flop. So no, there's some stuff you just don't get over . . . ever.

Chaeya

I am very sensitive about my body hair all over the place, I have always been somewhat ashamed I am not like most other humans, but when I found out Caligula had an over abundance of body hair and was real sensitive I felt a lot better knowing I am not the only one in history that is overly sensitive about freakish things we all are endowed with but have no control over any of it, .. historians tell us you were smart you had better not mention "hairy goats" in front of Caligula since he was insane and very sensitive about it..

LMAO dane. thanks for the laugh.

fear not, blessed are the hairy for they shall inherit...what... scissors? clippers? razors? pruning shears????

Wow! With your voice the sky is the limit! IMO your not making it in the music world is not "white folks fault' I am sorry you feel that it is! The doubts you have about yourself are human doubts! I have them and I think most people do! With all due respect some of your other posts sound like you are really wanting to do original music. That is a little closed minded (please don't break at the sword it scares me LOL)! I was reading how hard a time Shania Twain had until Mutt discovered her. She was doing some cover music as well! I strongly believe that making it in the music biz. requires a superhuman tenacity! It also requires luck and an open mind to try different things like relocating to an area that will apreciate your voice. That may not be in the cards for you i.e. family children keeping you stuck where you are. As a somewhat white guy which is what some people call me I NEVER look at a musicians race IMO music transcends race. By stating what you said that is kind of a cop out. Please don't hurt me for saying that

No, J, I don't believe my failure is because of "white folks" because it isn't. I take as much responsibility as anyone. But social conditioning does condition young people into seeing an image, and there is much racism and a lot of it comes from where you least expect it: the younger crowd and they're not from Texas either, many of them exist right here in California and New York. Youngsters are very expectant of how they want their idols to look and sound, and what they should wear. And the major fault with that lies with Hollywood, some of the most racist bastards around. They're the ones who decide what people will buy and won't buy. They continually pump old, outdated racial cliche's and stereotypes in music and film. And the only people duped by it all is the young crowd, not the older crowds who know better and have experienced better.

And women, regardless of their race, have a hard time in music anyway. A guy, as long as he's a good musician, can look like anything and make it in the music field as a front guy. A woman doesn't get that opportunity. She has to have a look that they want. If you notice the big slew of white vocalists that have been coming out of England sounding like old black ladies? Have you notice the decline of black singers in the industry? I think there's like four left (Bouncey, Rihanna, Nikki Minaj and Jennifer Hudson). Yeah, you could wind up as someone's back up singer or behind some drums or keyboards, but not as a front. Producers usually have a look in mind for their projects. I never fit that look.

Now, I've learned my lesson. I don't even try to get into mainstream music. I'm preparing to launch my own thing and you're right, where I am now, my race isn't important because I don't secularize myself and I don't make race an issue. Finding any musical success doing originals is like winning the lottery, and it's tough all around for everyone. But you just keep moving forward, but you don't forget the past.

Chaeya

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

As far as being a race, here's an interest, but long, article on the subject which concludes they are: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... t-1.428664

But also, people really don't understand the ramifications of being "persecuted for centuries" or care, which is why is so easy to dismissed it. Like said above, this isn't ancient history, and its something that you carry with you all the way down to your genetics. I've read the history of the Jewish people and they have been treated like the scourge of the Christian world, as well as have suffered multiple incidents of outright genocide. It's as insensitive when people who tell black people that they need to "get over" slavery, or the American Indians need to "get over" losing their land.

There are never enough years to where you "get over" having your soul squashed. Irish, German, Polish, and Italian immigrants have just migrated into the regular white race. Whether they're rich or poor, they're still white. The media caters to them, they can have holidays where everybody thinks it's cool to be them for a day. They're just seen as "white." So it's easy for them to just get over the few short years they were treated as the scourge of America during the immigration period. They don't have to deal with it any longer.

I can tell you for myself that I deal with not being white every day. Yes, I can behave and act like nothing bothers me, but I deal with the fact that every day I lose opportunities because people don't like how I look or the fact that I'm not part of the acceptable skin color, that the world lies to me and say that I can have anything I want if I just "believe" when I know that's not true. I know if I were white and had my voice, I'd be way further in my career than I am. That when people see me as being non-white, they expect me to sound like a black singer and when I don't, they're disappointed. I get it from black people too because of all the social conditioning. That I swear I can feel the thoughts of my mother who carried me that I was unwanted and that I try like a damndest to convince myself that I do matter, but I suffer bouts of horrible depression because I continually can't convince myself that I belong here. I mean, just during the movie "The Hunger Games" a great number of people tweeted that they were pissed off that one of the lead characters was black, and the comments sounded like a bunch of Klansmen. And when the media marketed the movie, they showed only the three white characters because they knew if they showed any of the non-white characters, the white people wouldn't go see it, meaning the film would flop. So no, there's some stuff you just don't get over . . . ever.

Chaeya

Chaeya,

Where do I begin....? For the last few years, as a white, yuppified hippy, I have struggled with this controversial issue. And I finally arrived to some truth for the first time in my white life... I finally get it... I thrust myself into the idea of walking in another man's shoes, specifically an ordinary black man.. and I found an answer... A young African American grows up and is reminded that his family, his predecessors , the people he loves and cherishes...His entire lineage... were summarily, systematically beaten, robbed, murdered, raped, ostracized, pushed around, whipped, enslaved, Their families torn apart, Their identities obliterated, by white, pale skinned monsters...

I understand how utterly retarded, inappropriate and wrong it is for people to suggest that they should: "get over it".

Under those conditions, If I had been a black man, even today..., I too would be inclined to harbor silent contempt not only against those who committed such attrocities, but pretty much their entire subsequent generations... Especially those who suggest I should "get over it".

Chaeya, what remains is a very big and critical question.

There are many of us, who truly are sorrowful for what those generations suffered. We, in today's generation, cant undo those terrible things...

But there must be something that we can do today......How can we (White persons) make it right today? What must we change and how shall we change it ...to earn the Black person's forgiveness. ...Is there hope of forgiveness?

And Chaeya, You are wanted...! You got a man and a daughter who love you...and nobody can take that away...You were made for that and for all the love you can derive with it. ...

I am very sensitive about my body hair all over the place, I have always been somewhat ashamed I am not like most other humans, but when I found out Caligula had an over abundance of body hair and was real sensitive I felt a lot better knowing I am not the only one in history that is overly sensitive about freakish things we all are endowed with but have no control over any of it, .. historians tell us you were smart you had better not mention "hairy goats" in front of Caligula since he was insane and very sensitive about it..

It was hard to mention most anything in front of Caligula, since he'd 'bout kill you or f**k you or f**k you then kill you just for being in his general vacinity.

Chaeya

Judaism is a religion not a race, since Jews do not share one common ancestry. And all that persecuted for centuries crap is ancient history. It's what occurs NOW that concerns me. Really Paperdog this stuff is readily available, you just need to go look.

As far as being a race, here's an interest, but long, article on the subject which concludes they are: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... t-1.428664

But also, people really don't understand the ramifications of being "persecuted for centuries" or care, which is why is so easy to dismissed it. Like said above, this isn't ancient history, and its something that you carry with you all the way down to your genetics. I've read the history of the Jewish people and they have been treated like the scourge of the Christian world, as well as have suffered multiple incidents of outright genocide. It's as insensitive when people who tell black people that they need to "get over" slavery, or the American Indians need to "get over" losing their land.

There are never enough years to where you "get over" having your soul squashed. Irish, German, Polish, and Italian immigrants have just migrated into the regular white race. Whether they're rich or poor, they're still white. The media caters to them, they can have holidays where everybody thinks it's cool to be them for a day. They're just seen as "white." So it's easy for them to just get over the few short years they were treated as the scourge of America during the immigration period. They don't have to deal with it any longer.

I can tell you for myself that I deal with not being white every day. Yes, I can behave and act like nothing bothers me, but I deal with the fact that every day I lose opportunities because people don't like how I look or the fact that I'm not part of the acceptable skin color, that the world lies to me and say that I can have anything I want if I just "believe" when I know that's not true. I know if I were white and had my voice, I'd be way further in my career than I am. That when people see me as being non-white, they expect me to sound like a black singer and when I don't, they're disappointed. I get it from black people too because of all the social conditioning. That I swear I can feel the thoughts of my mother who carried me that I was unwanted and that I try like a damndest to convince myself that I do matter, but I suffer bouts of horrible depression because I continually can't convince myself that I belong here. I mean, just during the movie "The Hunger Games" a great number of people tweeted that they were pissed off that one of the lead characters was black, and the comments sounded like a bunch of Klansmen. And when the media marketed the movie, they showed only the three white characters because they knew if they showed any of the non-white characters, the white people wouldn't go see it, meaning the film would flop. So no, there's some stuff you just don't get over . . . ever.

Chaeya

Chaeya,

Where do I begin....? For the last few years, as a white, yuppified hippy, I have struggled with this controversial issue. And I finally arrived to some truth for the first time in my white life... I finally get it... I thrust myself into the idea of walking in another man's shoes, specifically an ordinary black man.. and I found an answer... A young African American grows up and is reminded that his family, his predecessors , the people he loves and cherishes...His entire lineage... were summarily, systematically beaten, robbed, murdered, raped, ostracized, pushed around, whipped, enslaved, Their families torn apart, Their identities obliterated, by white, pale skinned monsters...

I understand how utterly retarded, inappropriate and wrong it is for people to suggest that they should: "get over it".

Under those conditions, If I had been a black man, even today..., I too would be inclined to harbor silent contempt not only against those who committed such attrocities, but pretty much their entire subsequent generations... Especially those who suggest I should "get over it".

Chaeya, what remains is a very big and critical question.

There are many of us, who truly are sorrowful for what those generations suffered. We, in today's generation, cant undo those terrible things...

But there must be something that we can do today......How can we (White persons) make it right today? What must we change and how shall we change it ...to earn the Black person's forgiveness. ...Is there hope of forgiveness?

And Chaeya, You are wanted...! You got a man and a daughter who love you...and nobody can take that away...You were made for that and for all the love you can derive with it. ...

No one in the HISTORY of my family EVER owned a slave. In fact part of my family was lied to time and time again by the so called "white man" I am 25% Choctaw Cherokee. They were beat killed ran off there land and forced to walk to Oklahoma during one of the worst winters in history most died along the way! The other 75% of me is immigrant German, Scotch, and Irish! I don't go around with a terrible attitude towards my fellow Americans saying they held me back, trust me this life has been HELL on earth. I made the best of it. I am not rich and I ain't poor (middle class). What I have I fought for tooth and nail, no one EVER gave me jack sh!t. IMO to many people in our society make excuses and it has become exceptable to make excuses. In fact excuses are expected and incouraged . Life is hard you have to try and keep trying until you succeed! No PHUKIN excuses allowed. My old man used to beat my ass if I gave excuses. I hated him for that but you know what? Now I know he was right. A hardass but RIGHT!

one must not forget, that anything can happen.

"even the strongest man may slain by a single arrow"
JRR Tolkien

one day you're self reliant, secure, and safe in your own world, the next you may be completely at the mercy of others.
dependent upon your enemies for even your daily bread.

if you choose to believe or not, we are all at the mercy of God,
and he subtle and quick to anger.

I am very sensitive about my body hair all over the place, I have always been somewhat ashamed I am not like most other humans, but when I found out Caligula had an over abundance of body hair and was real sensitive I felt a lot better knowing I am not the only one in history that is overly sensitive about freakish things we all are endowed with but have no control over any of it, .. historians tell us you were smart you had better not mention "hairy goats" in front of Caligula since he was insane and very sensitive about it..

It was hard to mention most anything in front of Caligula, since he'd 'bout kill you or f**k you or f**k you then kill you just for being in his general vacinity.

Chaeya

basically what I was trying to say, was we all have things within and without the bodies that our souls /spirits were assigned to, but they are drawbacks we can overcome and gives us a certain unique identity that is special and acceptable without having to suck up to what society tells us is the norm, we can seek out like minded special and unique people to change the world for the better and make the so called "superiors" acknowledge we are as valued as they are..

Let me say something first. I love you guys! I respect that musicians keep it real, even when they don't know what their talking about.

That's why I have weaned myself of "christian" discussion groups and come here instead. Much love and respect to all of you...ESPECIALLY the ones who don't like me.





That said....


I believe we, the writers, are the only people who can really change the world. I write to inspire people to face their own darkness and rise above it. Yeah, it's a "christian" genre but I absolutely hate religion. I hate it when people use God to justify their wicked behavior against others. I hate superstitious bullcrap, as if God can be manipulated by words or actions.

As a christian, I'm almost ashamed to call myself that for what it has become. I only consider those who love the truth more than their traditions or denominational bullshit to be "real" christians. I have more in common with Etu than ANY priest usually.

Ok...that said.


I've been studying the issue of Israel since 1990. I've been there 4 times and this is what drives me to be a part of a German church where most of them are children/grandchildren of Nazis who are ashamed and want to say so publicly to prevent what their fathers did from ever happening again.

I literally know hundreds of nazi descendants. I'm sitting by a girl whose father installed the showers into Auscwitz as I write this. So many of these friends of mine had mass murderers for grandfathers and didn't know it until they were grown up.

The average Nazis were not "beasts". They were ordinary people who did evil things because they swallowed lies easily. Every person is capable of the same until they face their own darkness. If these descendants of Nazis can face their darkness and make a change in their cities, then anyone can. It isn't easy or simple, but it's absolutely necessary if we are to avoid another catastrophe. I'm convinced we will not avoid it when I hear people repeating lies like I've heard in these last 2 pages about Israel.

The flotilla was a propoganda ploy from beginning to end. If you believed the crap being said by the Turks or the Palestinians, then you are one gullible sponge. I really don't understand why ANYONE would believe a single word coming from Hamas?

The truth is that Israel already has legal channels if you want to send aid to Gaza that were purposely challenged in order to make this scene. Israel has the right, like every other nation, to control customs and borders. Seriously, I expect musicians to be higher critical thinkers than the average person...so think about this: When have the muslim terrorists EVER TOLD THE TRUTH???


And regarding what Chaeya has said, the entire reason I work towards helping the Jews is the same reason I would help her. I HATE PREJUDICE FOR ANY REASON! I grew up in an all-white city run by the KKK. When I was 9 years old, I remember seeing a front page story about a 9 year old black boy hanging from a telephone poll. They would had to go to Beaumont (TX) to get him, because there were no blacks, no jews, no Mexicans allowed in my town. I fought those ignorant bastards my entire life.

So dear sister, I have come up with a plan to make a change. But first, without doing a google search, I'd like know who among you even knows what "Juneteenth" is?





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