General Chat (Non-Music-Related)

Jeff, do you think that was uncivil?

I thought I was. I don't see where I dragged him through the mud and initiated unwarranted personal attacks. I'll say it again... I am not going to kiss his arse when he uses typical liberal tactics.

Just saying...

No I didn't think your post was uncivil Glen. I don't expect you to kiss anyone's arse. Perhaps I misunderstood your post but it sure seemed you were implying I was kissing arse. I was simply stating my position. I enjoy the spirited debate we sometimes have on this site and just want to keep MY part as calm as possible.

scroll up buddy. if you've read this thread you can see it was ted who accused the left of using "tactics" of ridicule and sarcasm...and it was ME who pointed out that the right does the exact same thing!

but somehow that makes ME guilty of hypocrisy????

I'm not claiming "victory" as much as trying to get you to engage with your own thoughts on the facts and reasons behind the disagreements between left & right.

I'm afraid to discuss it with you now, only because the "right" has jumped all over you in the middle of an unfinished discussion. Please guys....we're all brothers. Let each new discussion lead us towards higher ground instead devolving into a shouting match every time???

Mark, I'm sorry if that was the impression I gave you, but that is not the point I was trying to make. My point was that those on the left use ridicule as their first (and quite often, only) tool when discussing people who disagree with policy on the right.

I have never disagreed with your assertion that those on the right "use" ridicule also. Our only disagrement (as I see it) is the degree, intensity, and strategic differences in the use of ridicule. This very thread shows that sarcasm and ridicule does come from the right also; but I posit that it is a consequence arising from frustration when those on the left won't deal with fact & reason. In other words, it is usually a response (of the right) to ridicule when that is all we get for trying to debate something with substance.

So allow me to clarify the small details of that general statement by stating it this way: On the right, I see people who at least start out with a disagreement over policy and begin their debate about that, as opposed to attacking policy based ONLY on personal attacks.

I readily confess that the frustration of conservatism (as an ideology) constantly losing in the political battles has created a much more vulgar society as a whole. We are as divided as anything that happened before the Civil War, imo, but I also see that era as a political division over Constitutional Law. Slavery was only one issue successfully used (by Republicans) to divide Democrats morally.

I lament the balkanization of Americans today. Yet coming from a family with a long history of Democrats, I believe that Party has been completely transformed into a European-style of socialism that will only continue to destroy the rights of the individual in favor of a communal government.

I find it commendable that my liberal friends care about social issues of people not in their own demographics. I find it dishonorable that they assume the worst of people who simply have a disagreement with them on the best policy to achieve the noble goals we share. In other words, I do believe that most of my liberal friends have good intentions but we disagree on how that will be accomplished. They tend to look at government for the eventual answer, where I believe conservatives trust the individual will eventually make the right choices.

I believe all people should have the right to be stupid and/or offensive. In an open and free society, they marginalize themselves by doing so. But if this individual right is suppressed by law that forces them to hide their true position, these emotions turn inward and resentment turns to hatred, instead of allowing for any level of mutual understanding based on hearing another viewpoint.


kapish?

On a semi-related note, this shooting in South Carolina....

A black man died on the EIGHTH shot fired from a white policeman after running a stop sign, according to a report I saw today. But what I heard yesterday was that this person actually ran into the policeman, and he was shooting at the driver from the hood of the car. The officer has been charged with murder and I'm sure there is evidence we haven't heard yet, but I will refrain from accepting reports from the major media, ONLY because they have proven to be untrustworthy in recent false narratives.

Personally, I don't think a white guy could get away with the exact same thing, so I don't understand why this MUST be a racial issue. However, Al Sharpton is already on it, so this absolutely will be turned into another issue that divides us along racial lines. But please tell me why would it be any worse if this officer committed a crime based on prejudice? It is still the death of someone's family member and he should be prosecuted to the full extent possible, no matter what his motive was, and no matter what the race/gender/sexual orientation/political affiliation

I think SOMEONE on the left could stand up and say this is not racial, but systemic. SOMEONE should say it's about right vs wrong, instead of white vs black. Police are becoming overly aggressive against ALL of us, and that is an "individuals rights" issue, not a societal indictment of Obama's political opposition being racists. In my opinion, that is what it becomes ONLY because it is politically helpful to the Democrats. In other words, the left seems willing to cause race wars only to hold political power and that is beyond anything they accuse those on the right of doing, which makes it criminal incitement.

ted, i appreciate you taking the time to try clear things up.

i understand and understood you quite clearly when you state(d) for fact that "democrats/libs use sarcasm and ridicule as their their first move".... and i know you clearly believe that based upon what you've seen, and have formed your opinion based on that.

but it's not what i've seen. at all. do some? yes. do all? most? no. and as i see it it's exactly the same for repubs/conservatives.

where you and i will forever disagree is that it's the first move of all/most/whatever.....dems/libs. you can list more examples of lefties and i can list more examples of righties.... but really, why?

so we'll need to simply call this one a draw. you're not gonna convince me otherwise and i'm not gonna convince you otherwise. seems silly to keep going over and restating our views on this.

I'm afraid to discuss it with you now, only because the "right" has jumped all over you in the middle of an unfinished discussion.

have no fear, ted...otherwise the terrorists win!

oh, so it was self-defense by the cop, and the cop just wanted to teach the victim a lesson? I did not quite get you Ted?

oh, so it was self-defense by the cop, and the cop just wanted to teach the victim a lesson? I did not quite get you Ted?

you didn't.

I have made no decision of guilt or innocence based on what news reports have been, because I've seen too many false narratives already. That wasn't my point.

What I did say was that we need to prosecute the cop based on his actions, not his "thoughts". In other words, nail this guy because he killed a person, and that person's status as a human with rights/dignity is all that matters.

I think it perfectly appropriate to say that prejudice will not be accepted, but it is not appropriate to give that kind of activity any priority based on what the guilty party "thinks". If he is guilty of murdering someone, then he is guilty of murder. His motives don't change the result and shouldn't change the sentence he gets either. The full weight of punishment should fall on him regardless of motivation. Period.

By the way, I also think it is wrong that killing a cop gets more punishment than killing any citizen. My worst enemy deserves the same respect as any cop, imo, if they are innocently murdered.

If the issue is police discrimination, then let's look at that issue apart from making case-law based on a single event where we try to discern their thoughts. Even if there are several single events which are being reported as racially motivated, I believe that police brutality and aggression is more economic-based. In other words, I think poor white trash would likely get the same treatment from the same officer for the same action.

Then again, we don't yet know if this driver was trying to kill (or harm) the officer with his car. What if we found out that his motive was to harm the officer because it was a white man? Would he be charged with a hate crime or an attempt to kill a cop? Do you not see the discrepancies if the tables are turned?

The difference is that making the narrative about race relations instead of police aggression will not improve our society, but further divide us...which helps the Democrat Party, and who just happens to be the one driving the racial narrative.

On a semi-related note, this shooting in South Carolina....

A black man died on the EIGHTH shot fired from a white policeman after running a stop sign, according to a report I saw today.

and he died after being struck by FIVE bullets...in HIS BACK. was he posing an imminent threat to the cop as he was running away?

But what I heard yesterday was that this person actually ran into the policeman, and he was shooting at the driver from the hood of the car.

you "heard"??? and from who did you hear that from?

The officer has been charged with murder and I'm sure there is evidence we haven't heard yet, but I will refrain from accepting reports from the major media, ONLY because they have proven to be untrustworthy in recent false narratives.

i don't need reports from the media.....the video is clear enough. the Coast Guard veteran is clearly 25/30 ft away and running when he gets shot. it's also clear enough in the video the cop picks up something and moves it to plant it by the victim. that's tampering w a crime scene.

Personally, I don't think a white guy could get away with the exact same thing, so I don't understand why this MUST be a racial issue.

none of us know if it's racial or not. since there's not a lot of "white profiling", were this a black officer gunning down a white suspect....most would never entertain the notion of that shooting having racial overtones.

However, Al Sharpton is already on it, so this absolutely will be turned into another issue that divides us along racial lines.

sharpton is a self serving $hitbag opportunist. and opportunists on the other sides will use this to further their agenda.

But please tell me why would it be any worse if this officer committed a crime based on prejudice? It is still the death of someone's family member and he should be prosecuted to the full extent possible, no matter what his motive was, and no matter what the race/gender/sexual orientation/political affiliation.

are you kidding? it's one thing if this is nothing more than a cop believing he was apprehending a criminal and using bad judgement....if however this cop is racist and more inclined to shoot a person because that person is black.....that should scare everyone $hitless regardless of their skin color. someone w a license to use deadly force deciding WHEN to use it based on race????? yeah, i have a problem w that.

I think SOMEONE on the left could stand up and say this is not racial, but systemic. SOMEONE should say it's about right vs wrong, instead of white vs black.

seems you've got he cart WAAAAAY out in front of the horse. fact is we don't know yet.

sharpton is an a$$wipe, so him saying it's racial is expected. but anyone who says "it ain't"...til we know more, that's almost as bad.....and comes off a little like you're exploiting this situation to push your narrative. (see your next paragragh below)

Police are becoming overly aggressive against ALL of us, and that is an "individuals rights" issue, not a societal indictment of Obama's political opposition being racists.

oh give it up already w that tired "everyone who opposes obama is a racist" plug and play one size fits all crap. mah, gawd don't you guys ever tire of trotting that out every 5 minutes?

In my opinion, that is what it becomes ONLY because it is politically helpful to the Democrats. In other words, the left seems willing to cause race wars only to hold political power and that is beyond anything they accuse those on the right of doing, which makes it criminal incitement.

yeah, that just comes off a little smarmy to me.....using this incident to push that narrative and take some more shots at the left.

just as bad that you believe the left actually WANT race riots to remain in power. wow.

I confess that I didn't know there was a video yet. I spent the whole day with a dear friend yesterday, whose father survived Auchwitz for 18 months and her mother was with Oskar Shindler. I've kept up with this story only in the background and what little I have heard about it, the cop is reprehensible. No way I'm trying to excuse his actions!

But if he killed any person, it should be the same penalty. Fry his ass.

If he did it because the person was black, it is not necessarily an indictment on anyone else in American society. That kind of incitement only begets more violence, and I say that there are people on the left using this for their own political advantage rather than being motivated by a noble cause.

The result is police being shot randomly all over America, causing them to be even more likely to commit an action they deem personally existential in a given nano-second of performing their job.

just as bad that you believe the left actually WANT race riots to remain in power. wow.

I didn't want to believe that...but that is my analysis after seeing a false narrative being promoted several times since right before the last Presidential election, which has galvanized anger in the black community. Poll number showed that the black community wasn't all that excited about getting out the vote in the last election...and that is when Sharpton started showing up at the White House frequently.

If you can show me another reason for promoting a false-narrative that is easily disproven by a short summary of the actual facts known at the time, then I will be happy to hear it. I'll be traveling quite a lot for the next few days and may not be able to respond quickly, btw.

If he did it because the person was black, it is not necessarily an indictment on anyone else in American society.

well, there is valid concern about racism among those charged w protecting us. if more and more cases come to light where racism IS a component......that is cause for concern. and needs to be addressed when deciding who gets to wear a badge and can use deadly force when choose.


That kind of incitement only begets more violence, and I say that there are people on the left using this for their own political advantage rather than being motivated by a noble cause.

people on the left use it for their agenda. people on the right use it for theirs. fascists and neo nazis will use it for their agenda. in all cases it's reprehensible.

from remarks and indictments you've already made, i think you already have been using it for your agenda, no?

The result is police being shot randomly all over America, causing them to be even more likely to commit an action they deem personally existential in a given nano-second of performing their job.

i already commented on this several posts above. in essence i said it's a shame that others in law enforcement will have to suffer consequences for this $hitbag cop's actions.

just as bad that you believe the left actually WANT race riots to remain in power. wow.

I didn't want to believe that...but that is my analysis after seeing a false narrative being promoted several times since right before the last Presidential election, which has galvanized anger in the black community. Poll number showed that the black community wasn't all that excited about getting out the vote in the last election...and that is when Sharpton started showing up at the White House frequently.

If you can show me another reason for promoting a false-narrative that is easily disproven by a short summary of the actual facts known at the time, then I will be happy to hear it. I'll be traveling quite a lot for the next few days and may not be able to respond quickly, btw.

you seem to want ignore is that racism IS alive and well. to talk about it and advocate doing something about it isn't necessarily trying to EXPLOIT it.

if you come at everything from the suspicious point of view where you've already decided NOTHING coming from the dems is true and is nothing more than lies to keep themselves in power.....than of course you will view trying to address the very real problems of racism in this country as "exploitation".

enough on that.

good that you can be there for your friend at his time of loss. safe travels to you, ted.

Heres another one. This whole racial thing has gotten out of control.
Two years ago, here in NY, a convicted person serving time for attempted murder was released.
Under federal law he was disqualified from firearm possession. Forget NY law.
He went on to acquire an "illegal" firearm. He went on to shoot and kill an innocent unarmed citizen and a young 29 year old nassau county emergency response officer.
This was an animal that should have never been released.
Why is this relevant????
Both men killed were white... The killer was black.
I get disgusted when I see this turn into an immediate racial thing. It didn't even come up. WHY?... sharpton would have pushed the wrong point.
I only bring this up because in this case in SC... This cop is totally WRONG in my opinion.
That doesn't mean I have the right to go out and throw a rope around his neck or burn down my town.
I hope you guys get it...

Glen - I agree.

Planet - do hear ANY conservatives or libertarians defending that cop in SC? Not a peep. Just another strawman.

That thug in Ferguson deserved every bullet he got. So did that idiot in FL. This guy did not and I say all these things having looked carefully into the cases. Frankly that cop in SC should be hung. Running from a traffic stop is NOT a capital offense.

We will however, never have justice in this country as long as the left and the media use every incident to push the communist party line blather about race. (I include the Republicans with the left since they go along with all this bullshit)

Your inner city feral is not very smart and I don't care if you call me names for stating facts - and not being smart their sole source of news if any, is the mainstream commie media (including Fox so spare me the straw men) and all they hear is about white people causing their problems.

Race actually has little to do with their problems - it's about sloth, statism and stupidity. Two of the problems can be overcome. Not sure about statism - maybe not...

Racism is a joke the left used to keep the black people they've subjugated mad at somebody other than the govt pigs who have created this situation.

And yes - the left loves riots or they wouldn't broadcast false information. I actually thought Zimmerman was wrong given the initial reports - then found out the network scum had lied and actually doctored the phone calls to support their hellish cause.

Talbot

You wrote that good Mike. Funny how this ended up talking over the squabble between Ted and Mark.

I'm backing down... I thought Ted was doing a good job destroying liberal concepts. HHHMMMMM maybe that was the plan all along.

I should be laughing... But I'm not.

If you don't love my country... Get out. If you don't like this part of bandmix... Pull a SANS and get out.

Yeah... Go ahead and pull a SANS.

Racism is a joke the left used to keep the black people they've subjugated mad at somebody other than the govt pigs who have created this situation.

Talbot

Bingo

The left is producing a false narrative ONLY to make whip up racial anger for political gain. Once a person is convinced that they are a victim, they can then be turned into a perpetrator for a dark agenda.

The reasons behind the recent false narratives have not yet been exposed: They want to create a national police force like the Gestapo, who answers only to the President.