General Chat (Non-Music-Related)

Wow Haley ... very impressive. i never knew this about you. I agree with pretty much all of what everyone has said, including Sambop. In light of this I apologize for my little dig in response to his Post. Call it Christmas spirit but What he said whoever he is , was very, very true. It seems that all of us on this subject pretty much agree. That is an excellent Christmas Present. Trump is not responsible for the mistakes and Evil of others. Those who elect them and support them are ... and we are not toddlers as the black Messiah's Man Wife stated. There are prison cells waiting.

No worries Sammy, just remember to mark your calendar.....Yom Kippur falls on Sept 29 next yr.

Wow! The waiting list is thaaaat long?
Will it help if I slap on some Old Spice, take a shower with a couple of hookers, while wearing leather soled Bruno Magli's, and eating a subway sandwich?

that should be the worst any of us have to atone for!

...and a poor choice for shower shoes.

THE BLACK MESSIAH ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXEdzh0CpQk

I'll buy into it after I see what he does and doesn't do, and not until then and maybe even not then.

Slacker - You don't have to wait long. Been watching what's happening the past few days? Carrier keeping jobs in the US, Ford might not move to Mexico, head honchos of Boeing and Lockheed in talks today to reduce cost of both Air Force 1 planes and F35 order...Boeing said they will bring cost down. Can't remember, maybe Lockheed too.

I looked up the 747, it costs $385 million, even with the communications and security upgrades, $4 billion for a pair is completely ridiculous. I'd be surprised if a legitimate price for 2 would be more than $1 billion. Don't know much about the F35, but one comment I heard today is it's a dog, pilots don't like it, so it might be scrapped. That's just my guess though. But that's how he plans to build the military, which means spending, while bringing taxes down, which means less revenue.

Of course, that's misleading too. Tax cuts across the board, OK that means less revenue. A lot of people aren't happy about the tax cuts for upper income brackets, but the so called news hasn't told you he also included in his tax plan eliminating most loopholes, write offs, tax shelters and so forth that let many people pay nothing in taxes, which offsets quite a bit of that, but doesn't hit the wealthy for a huge portion of their actual income. Lower corporate taxes also let companies keep 20% more of their revenue right off the bat, that means money they can now invest in expanding and so forth, which translates new jobs. That won't happen until he takes office, but the results will be immediate.

All of this is just getting started, but from what I see just the past couple of weeks, he's gotten more done in a month than Obama did in 4 years.

What you should also pay attention to is the response by politicians and the press. You know he's directly over the target when he's taking the most incoming. Right now they're doing everything they can think of to convince the public he's the worst thing to happen since Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. They know he's about to derail the DC gravy train, and they don't like it. He's been putting them on notice for a long time, and that's the number one problem, as they see it. Getting Lockheed and Boeing to bring down costs of just these two projects is a big red flag to them...oh no, he's really going to do it...OH NOOOOO!!! And what is the establishment doing? Pretty much going bananas trying to come up with a way to neutralize him before he takes office. Recount, harassing electors, the Russians, protests to disrupt the inauguration, mass phone calls to his hotel called for, bill already going through to force candidates in the future to release tax forms...they're terrified and it shows. Watch John McCain, if he hates it, you can bet it's great. Ditto for Nancy Pelosi. Double ditto for Hillary.

Look up what the people say who have known Trump for 20 years or more. Every one of them I've heard in TV interviews or printed articles says basically the same thing. Pretty much the opposite of the image the press conveys. I've been looking into what Trump is really like since soon after he announced he was running, I was convinced early on he would be our next president, I wanted to know what we were getting into. He really does want to do his best to make this country a place worth living in again. He's not taking a salary, OK a dollar a year...he planned on leaving the business to his kids 4 years ago, I'm betting he expects his appointees to follow that example and work for the country, not the business. But run the country like a business.

Right now I think he's showing the people he appointed he can and will get things done, you can't expect performance out of employees who don't think the boss can or will produce, and he will expect them to perform too. That's the way he does things. He expects the best you can do, and he expects his appointees to follow his example, so he's setting that example. Keeping his word, bringing jobs back, getting costs down, streamlining operations. People in Congress already going to work on getting taxes down, getting rid of obamacare, things are moving faster than any president I can think of. But he won't just sit there and bellow out orders, he'll dig in and get things done too. People see that, they will go out of their way to do anything the boss wants.

Someone made a comment in a commentary show today that got my attention. What if Tillerson is a sacrificial lamb? Suppose Trump knows he will never get confirmed, then he will be able to use that as political leverage in the future. Interesting theory...

The main thing I think is worth considering, is Trump knows if he doesn't deliver, the voters will want his head on a platter. We're sick of the business as usual politicians, the country is headed over a cliff with an incompetent pinhead in the captain's seat, people want positive change, and so far it looks like Trump sees that. What I'm seeing the past couple of weeks looks a whole lot like he doesn't intend to fail. We're going to hold hid feet to the fire and he knows it. That's why I think he will do a good job. He knows we will not be happy if everything just cruises merrily along as usual. And he cannot tolerate seeing himself fail. That's why his egotistical nature is actually a great asset, it won't let him fail. That's his greatest fear, that he might not succeed. He won't let that happen.

Good perspective Billy.

You have more facts than I do, although I do not buy into them all so here are some questions on the Carrier deal that I find disturbing. Maybe you can refute some of them as I trust little that I read from either side these days.

A little information about that big deal saving Carrier jobs that I have read in various posts.

The unions were cut out of the negotiations. True or false?

In claiming 1,100 jobs, Trump is including 300 jobs that never were going to Mexico in the first place. He also is conveniently forgetting about the 700 jobs from UTEC, though both announcements were made at the same time. True or false?

Trump tweeted Sunday that he will slap a 35 percent tariff on any company that ships jobs to another country, so it’s unclear whether United Technologies snookered Trump or Trump snookered United Technologies. True or false?

Trump and Pence gave United Technologies $7 million of taxpayer money in exchange for only keeping 800 jobs in the US. true or false? (Tax incentives that the taxpayer will end up paying elsewhere as government has no money of its own)

The Wall Street Journal (subscription required) reported that the deal only covers 800 Carrier jobs in the Indianapolis furnace plant and an additional 300 research and development jobs that were not going to Mexico. Carrier parent company United Technologies still intends to move 1,300 jobs to Mexico. True or false?

The American Action Forum analysis said that on an annual basis, all DOE rule-makings (proposed and final) from the agency from 2007 to 2015 have imposed more than $9.5 billion in economic costs, compared with generating an estimated $32 billion in benefits. The report questioned a number of DOE’s assumptions in calculating the benefits and noted that many of the costs will be borne directly by the consumer (such as an $83 increase in a refrigerator or $464 more for a water heater), who may or may not own the item long enough to get back the upfront cost through lower energy bills. True or false?

..................................................................................

The government never spends money on deals. The taxpayers always pick up the tab in one way or another. True or false? operating businesses in a free market society is the American way. True or false?
Just consider the precedence that this sets for the "free " market. To me It sounds like something Communist China would do to independent business.

Even if just a few of these statements are true it doesn't sound like a great deal to me. It sounds more like a political scam to impress voters, as all politicians in the past have done and are continuing to do.

The unions were cut out of the negotiations. True or false?

Don't know.

In claiming 1,100 jobs, Trump is including 300 jobs that never were going to Mexico in the first place. He also is conveniently forgetting about the 700 jobs from UTEC, though both announcements were made at the same time. True or false?

Not sure but I've heard similar. Haven't dug into it though. Could be true.

Trump tweeted Sunday that he will slap a 35 percent tariff on any company that ships jobs to another country, so it’s unclear whether United Technologies snookered Trump or Trump snookered United Technologies. True or false?

Not sure what you're getting at. He's been saying the 35% tariff line for a long time, he probably means it. So their problem is which is less costly. Stand their ground and face a tariff hit, or come to the table and talk things over. Who is snookering who? I have no idea.

Trump and Pence gave United Technologies $7 million of taxpayer money in exchange for only keeping 800 jobs in the US. true or false? (Tax incentives that the taxpayer will end up paying elsewhere as government has no money of its own)

This is nothing new, tax incentives have been used since before we were both born. Would you rather see more subsidized businesses like Solyndra gobble up $500 million at a time? That was taxpayer money too, and with no return now, and they probably knew it would fail before they started. At least someone at Carrier will still be signing a few paychecks.

The Wall Street Journal (subscription required) reported that the deal only covers 800 Carrier jobs in the Indianapolis furnace plant and an additional 300 research and development jobs that were not going to Mexico. Carrier parent company United Technologies still intends to move 1,300 jobs to Mexico. True or false?

I'm not a subscriber so I'll take your word for it, you're not one of those around here prone to lying. I'm not sure if they still plan a plant in Mexico or not, don't remember really, but this is also just getting started, I expect to see a lot of the businesses coming back to the US as soon as the tax changes start happening. At that point, this Carrier issue may become a lot more relevant again.

The American Action Forum analysis said that on an annual basis, all DOE rule-makings (proposed and final) from the agency from 2007 to 2015 have imposed more than $9.5 billion in economic costs, compared with generating an estimated $32 billion in benefits. The report questioned a number of DOE’s assumptions in calculating the benefits and noted that many of the costs will be borne directly by the consumer (such as an $83 increase in a refrigerator or $464 more for a water heater), who may or may not own the item long enough to get back the upfront cost through lower energy bills. True or false?

Don't know a thing about this, never heard about it before but it sounds just like what government agencies do. Same as the EPA. This is about to change too, EPA regulations are already on Trump's radar, these will probably get some attention too. This is the kind of thing he's going to look at as far as getting the economy sorted out. Most people don't realize how complicated a national economy can be. This is just one facet of it, and I hadn't heard of the rules (or regulations?) you brought up. I do know Trump is definitely targeting regulations, especially EPA, and has stated more than once he intends to try for a ruling that for every new regulation two existing ones must be removed. This is the kind of thing he's targeting. The cost you cited is the reason. Not only that, but the EPA regulations he has specifically targeted are already killing jobs and that would continue.

Look, I'm not trying to get into a big argument, just trying to get you to realize that a lot of people who do not have the best interest of this country in mind are doing everything they can to get exactly the result it seems to have gotten with you. You seem to be very skeptical of what Trump actually wants to do, when he has stated his intentions many times, and he has a long standing reputation for doing exactly what he says. He's not a politician who can be counted on to say whatever he thinks you want to hear in order to get elected, then forget about you until the next election. You should be able to see this already from the way things are taking shape.

As far as Carrier goes, I don't think it's over yet, this is just the opening salvo. Trump knows in every negotiation compromises must be made, usually on both sides, and I have no doubt he will always make sure both sides get something they want, while the country comes out ahead in the long run. That's how he has run his business for 40 years, that's how he will run the country. You and I may not always like every facet of every negotiation, but in the long run we, as a country, will come out ahead. Every time. That may take a little longer to see, but we can see already he is working toward exactly what he said he would do. It will include things we may not be crazy about, but the overall outcome will be good for the country, that I'm sure of.

Just don't be swayed too much by what you hear, even the supposedly friendly news sources are good at veiled attacks and misinformation. I'm expecting that to change as well, we should start to see a lot more honesty in reporting before too much longer. That's where Trump using Twitter comes in, he can speak directly to us, without the press filter we've had to deal with for a long time. Even his recent rallies were a similar approach, he knows they can't resist covering them live, so he uses that to get his ideas out to the public too, and the press has to sit there and watch while he tells us how dishonest they are...I love that...I don't know how long it will take, but I don't think it will take too much more of things like the NYT losing 95% of their revenue and CNN ratings dropping like a shotput in a swimming pool for them to get the hint. Watch what happens after the inauguration, it's going to get interesting...

You know me. I'll be watching.

Regardless if some of these policies are implemented and have or have not been done in the past they will be raising the cost of everything I wish to purchase yet again. To me that isn't any different than any other politician.

It is not and never has been the duty of government to dictate or to run private industry in any manner. They have a job. That is to protect the American people from inside and outside threats to our republic. That is it. Yet now the government is the #1 threat to our freedom and security and has been for many years. Letting them have more power to create more disasters can only be detrimental to our freedom.

Some of those legislative brainstorms, such as the raise in minimum wage, will present a real incentive to go to automation thus displacing American workers jobs with machines. We do not need to be giving incentives for businesses or telling them what they can and can not do, neither is it the governments job to black mail them with higher taxes or import duties. The job of government should be to get rid of these crippling legislative crapass laws that prohibit business from growing right here in America.

I know that is what trump is claiming to wish to do, however forcing companies to stay by bribing them with the money in my wallet or threatening to tax their products, which still robs me of my finances, is NOT the right way to go about it. I'm sick and tired of everything politicians do to protect me that end up robbing me financially.

Anytime the government messes with private industry the results are always a disaster. That is what politicians do. They create disasters so that they can remedy the disasters they have created by creating bigger disasters in order to fix their previously created disasters. Am I missing something here?

You are both pointing out many valid points, questions, and concerns.

What I see is far more simple. I see 28 years liberal, progressive, one world order, climate change,open border...BS.

What I see is 28 years of big government meddling in the very economy that used to support all the wonderful dreams of socialist thieves.

What I have seen is a government that is failing in protecting the American people.KATE STEINLE was an American citizen that had ALL her rights taken away in a second, because all these crazies in position feel a non American has more rights. I see a leadership destroying our military, and then at will of an executive order squander that resource without concern. I see leadership destroying our freedom through economic control.

Let's back up 2 pages. Let' give President Trump a chance. Imagine, he has never held any public office, and now he holds the highest office in the world. Pretty amazing.

Yes Slacker. It has gone so far that we must remain extremely vigilant. I'm not going to get caught up in smaller deals.
Right now I would say the security of every American has been compromised by apologizing to rouge nations that are ATTACKING America. TIME TO END IT!!!

GIVE PRESIDENT TRUMP A CHANCE... He hasn't even been inaugurated yet, and the enemies of America are marching in full colors. F... THEM!!!!!!!