This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

General discussion for non music topics. BE RESPECTFUL OR YOUR POSTS WILL BE DELETED.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#248217 by DainNobody
Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:34 pm
if you think about it, Russian policy in Syria is very similar to Right Wing Neo-Conservative movement in U.S.A. ..for instance, the Russian Government has decided enough is enough as far as letting U.S. policy not getting the job done in Syria, even our plan of training Syrian Rebels was doomed from the beginning and the U.S. Government stated it was an absolute failure, heard it on the news the other day, so while neo-cons in the U.S. are dead-set against the failures of Obama, it seems the Russians are also in that same camp.. they see the U.S. could not get the job done.. and it is plain to see both Russia and the Neo-Conservative movement alike see Obama and his tactics not in the best interest of quelling the hordes of migrants heading to Western Europe and somebody has to pay for that? do you feel you need to be paying for it? I don't..
#248226 by DainNobody
Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:03 pm
I don't know Bill, but the following speech by Putin sounds as if Rubio, Walker or Cruz could have said it?..very right wing sounding and not at all as if Marx would have said it..

On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament),and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:

“In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that’s the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell ‘discrimination’. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.”

The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a five minute standing ovation.
#248234 by MikeTalbot
Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:46 pm
You all may be over analyzing. Here's the 'For Dummies' version:

Primary
Saudis (those scum who knocked down our towers) continue to use American troops as mercs to further their interests.

Specifically, they want the natural gas exported from Syria which Russia now controls, and has controls for quite a while.

This is why the Saudis had our ridiculous state department stage that coup in Ukraine.

Subtext
Russians are not know for subtlety but they are surprising loyal to allies - Syria has been their ally for most of my life time.

Americans are known to betray their allies regularly - doesn't anybody remember the Syrian Armoured division that fought at our side in Desert Storm? I didn't think so.

Russians (to my amazement) will stand up for and protect Christians

America is refusing to accept any but Muslim refugees.

Conclusion - every American that posts on either side of this farce always prefaces with "Assad is of course, a thug." Really? What did he ever do to you? Might be time to stop supporting the uniparty with their Fox/CNN etc propaganda channels and dig a little deeper.

I'm sure everyone noticed McCain, king of the neo-cons standing shoulder to shoulder with Obama, queen of the neo-cons, on this issue of life and death - one which could spark off a war some body seems to want very badly.

Talbot
#248236 by DainNobody
Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:22 pm
BillRas wrote:They simply are not stupid enough to fall for attempts that have been made to destabilize their country.
The nation of America was founded and built by immigrant from around the world escaping repressive monarchies and impoverishment in their homelands. That is not the history of Russia.

From past comments you have made, it would seem that you buy into the CFR vision of globalization.
from Honorary Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations:
Image
Image


Perhaps Putin is more skeptical than you are?

From Putin's UN speech:
We are all different, and we should respect that. No one has to conform to a single development model that someone has once and for all recognized as the only right one. We should all remember what our past has taught us.

We also remember certain episodes from the history of the Soviet Union. Social experiments for export, attempts to push for changes within other countries based on ideological preferences, often led to tragic consequences and to degradation rather than progress.

It seemed, however, that far from learning from others' mistakes, everyone just keeps repeating them, and so the export of revolutions, this time of so-called democratic ones, continues. It would suffice to look at the situation in the Middle East and North Africa, as has been mentioned by previous speakers. Certainly political and social problems in this region have been piling up for a long time, and people there wish for changes naturally.

But how did it actually turn out? Rather than bringing about reforms, an aggressive foreign interference has resulted in a brazen destruction of national institutions and the lifestyle itself. Instead of the triumph of democracy and progress, we got violence, poverty and social disaster. Nobody cares a bit about human rights, including the right to life.

I cannot help asking those who have caused the situation, do you realize now what you've done? But I am afraid no one is going to answer that. Indeed, policies based on self-conceit and belief in one's exceptionality and impunity have never been abandoned.

It is now obvious that the power vacuum created in some countries of the Middle East and North Africa through the emergence of anarchy areas, which immediately started to be filled with extremists and terrorists.

Tens of thousands of militants are fighting under the banners of the so-called Islamic State. Its ranks include former Iraqi servicemen who were thrown out into the street after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Many recruits also come from Libya, a country whose statehood was destroyed as a result of a gross violation of the U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973. And now, the ranks of radicals are being joined by the members of the so-called moderate Syrian opposition supported by the Western countries.

First, they are armed and trained and then they defect to the so-called Islamic State. Besides, the Islamic State itself did not just come from nowhere. It was also initially forged as a tool against undesirable secular regimes.

Having established a foothold in Iraq and Syria, the Islamic State has begun actively expanding to other regions. It is seeking dominance in the Islamic world. And not only there, and its plans go further than that. The situation is more than dangerous.

In these circumstances, it is hypocritical and irresponsible to make loud declarations about the threat of international terrorism while turning a blind eye to the channels of financing and supporting terrorists, including the process of trafficking and illicit trade in oil and arms. It would be equally irresponsible to try to manipulate extremist groups and place them at one's service in order to achieve one's own political goals in the hope of later dealing with them or, in other words, liquidating them.

To those who do so, I would like to say — dear sirs, no doubt you are dealing with rough and cruel people, but they're in no way primitive or silly. They are just as clever as you are, and you never know who is manipulating whom. And the recent data on arms transferred to this most moderate opposition is the best proof of it.

We believe that any attempts to play games with terrorists, let alone to arm them, are not just short-sighted, but fire hazardous (ph). This may result in the global terrorist threat increasing dramatically and engulfing new regions, especially given that Islamic State camps train militants from many countries, including the European countries.

Unfortunately, dear colleagues, I have to put it frankly: Russia is not an exception. We cannot allow these criminals who already tasted blood to return back home and continue their evil doings. No one wants this to happen, does he?
the last banner you posted relating to communism (the Chairman Mao) is really not relevant, since Russia is no longer a Communist nation, the CPRF only garnered 11.57% of the vote in the last Russian election, therefore I can't be lumped in as a communist even if I do trust Pravda news over western journalism, which is sparking my curiosity about the United Russia political platform.. I'm still not sure what led you to believe I am for a one world government other than somday it will probably have to be a necessity when more of the natural resources are used up or expired, probably quite some time in the future though maybe 50 to 100 years, I'll be dead by then...no worries
#248237 by DainNobody
Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:44 pm
http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/201 ... ted-russia

The Ideology of United Russia Political Party - it looks like my gut instinct was right, they are conservatives rather than liberals
______________________________________________________________________________
Is United Russia Conservative?

Most people, if prompted to answer where they believe United Russia fits on the political spectrum would say that the group is conservative. But according to Huntington’s definition of conservatism, United Russia cannot be considered conservative. Huntington’s thesis is that conservatism can only be a purely situational rather than ideational ideology—a defense of any existing institutions against fundamental challenge. In other words, conservatism is a knee-jerk reaction to whatever trend of progressivism is alive and well at the time, without an all-encompassing idea at its core. The United Russia party openly agrees with Huntington’s analysis and instead considers itself traditional as opposed to “conservative”.

However, can it be said that UR is even traditionalist? According to the party ideology, and the presentation by the representatives, UR is firmly wedded to many key concepts of modernity and the liberal project. In fact, UR considers itself the only force that can save classical liberalism from itself, a strange claim for a party that considers itself “traditional.”

They claim the title of defenders of real liberal values which they claim are now dead. From a conceptual point of view, this seems to be a either a convenient escape from logic or perhaps a different understanding of the term “traditional.” Perhaps there is a new understanding of traditionalism that is defined by UR as being “diet liberalism” or “liberalism lite” that makes it more palatable to the Russian public.

The Individual vs “The Persona”

One of the more interesting ideas advanced by UR is the concept of a “persona,” not an individual. They make the point that a “person is realized only in the context of society not as a disembodied individual. Mass culture is creating a culture of individual consumers,” United Russia says, and here they have a point. At least in the West, the United States has embarked on a project following the end of the Second World War and arguably even earlier, to transform the American citizen into the American consumer. United Russia asks the hypothetical about what the future will look like, “when we are all interchangeable consumers, when all identity is relative, when we can sell everything that we own as a culture to transnationals. Whether this is the future of disembodied individualism that we want…”

Their criticism of modern consumer culture extends to the ideas of modern liberalism as well. Neoliberalism as a model they say, is one that is not needed in Russia, and that we have to learn from the cultural suicide of the West. They came out swinging against neo-liberalism saying that, “neoliberals say you will win if you sell out, and they to convince you to be willing to sell everything, all in favor of economics. Replace everyone with Vietnamese if you want efficiency. This is the end goal of the neo-liberal model, and we believe that it is an insane experiment; rather all social experiments must be grounded in history.”

Surprisingly enough, they made an argument about the need for multiculturalism, but not in the way that most progressives would consider. If a country has a right to self-determinism, then what can we say about neo-liberalism, “when it is involved in the colonization of traditional cultures?”

A Case against Democracy

It would seem that United Russia does not believe in democracy as the highest governing principle of a state. They did not come right out and say it, but I believe the interpretation is correct, if one is wililing to read between the lines of the rhetoric. For example, one of the representatives of United Russia said that, “democracy can be manipulated, like a retard; special interest groups can derail the entire project, what is more important is the narod.” This draws obvious parallels with the German idea of the volk. They continue: “Democracies can become easily manipulated by transnational corporations, foreign NGOs, or corrosive ideals.” United Russia makes the point, (take it as you will) that they are not against the idea of democracy categorically, rather, “what United Russia is against, is the manipulation of identity… in the name of any ideology that is alien to that people.” A criticism of democracy is hard to find in the modern world, where the idea of popular government has trumped all others in debates about the nature of government, but it seems that United Russia is making the case for a national project not necessarily based on democratic values.

Religion and Tradition

When asked how many people in attendance actually were practicing Orthodox Christians, only a smattering of people actually raised their hands. This is fairly typical among the youth of most developed countries, and it seems to be a valid criticism to point out that among the population at large, religiosity is not that common. Therefor a party that is basing its appeal on “traditional values rooted in Orthodoxy,” seems to be only appealing to the minority of faithful in an otherwise post-communist country. The counter to this point, that I personally found convincing, is that the question is not necessarily one of religious practice (going to church every Sunday) or even faith (blasphemy I know), but rather self-identity. They make the comparison to China, still ostensibly Communist, but which has people who have the Chinese and Confucian values and realize the value of traditional religion to their self-identity-like. No one could say that the average Chinese does not realize that he is Chinese first and communist second. This is not a unique phenomenon, and Russians, just like the Chinese, need a self-identity grounded in history and tradition.

A Unique Take on the Recent History of Russia

People thought synergy between countries would continue, but this was not the case as the United States decided to pursue hegemony and rifts developed between the SCO countries. To put in perspective the loss incurred by Russia, Ukraine took 60% of the industry with it during the breakup of the Soviet Union, as well as 50 million citizens. The rift between Ukraine and Russia has in fact been called a “tragic development” by both Putin and his party on several occasions.

Interestingly enough, they seemed very well read on Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations,” making the point that the split in Ukraine has been predicted for a while now and that this entire crisis is about deciding what Russia is in the post-soviet world. However, on the important questions, such as what Russia's future looks like in the 21st century, their stance is unclear. Almost as opaque are the answers of United Russia about the border question.

When I asked about Russia’s boundaries, the answer was not what I expected.

The representatives said, “For now, Russia’s boundaries, but boundaries change. It is not to say that we want to fight for new ones, but further integration is possible. Take Kazakhstan as an example. We cannot wage wars to expand markets, but further synchronization with Kazakhstan and the other 'stans' is possible."

When pressed about Ukraine, however, there was a lot of dodging, and roundabout answers. It was only when they were pressed further by the audience that they finally gave out the party line. “We support federalization of Ukraine with greater independence for the Lughansk and Donetsk oblasts.” No mention of Novorossiya, of independence, of possible integration with Russia, nothing. Here they toed the party line very carefully, but that does not mean that they may not have other convictions privately.

A Critic

A student stood up and asked a long and impassioned question about economic opportunity. She mentioned how she did not feel that she could have a career here as a student of politics and with opinions that run contrary to the ruling regime. She said that she was planning to leave for the West soon, and seek self-realization there. I will let the United Russia answer stand on its own here. Their appeal to the idea of the narod and the common folk is clear here, and so is their refusal to backpedal.

“Conservatism needs a structure of realization, just like liberalism, and if you want to immigrate away and realize yourself in another country, you are in a minority. Most people can’t do that, it is only people with a certain level of prosperity and income independence that have that option available to them. We need to care about the people that don’t have that option first and foremost.”

This quote more than any other I believe, highlights who United Russia’s voter base is, and who it tries to focus its appeal to. Needless to say, it is not the liberal intelligentsia of the university crowd.
Beyond Conservatism
#248238 by DainNobody
Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:28 am
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... gay-fever/

how much like a U.S. right wing neo-Conservative can you get? .. :D
#248248 by DainNobody
Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:09 pm
Bill, if you want to lay out an argument about me not knowing the difference between a neo-con and a conservative, could you please post cartoons that have some sort of revelance? the nazis stealing gold from the czechs via a wire transfer from England in WWII is preposterous, or at a minimum incredulous..
#248249 by DainNobody
Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:15 pm
Bill, thanks anyhow for being a participant on the thread, I commend you about your knowledge of history in general..so please do not take my previous post as an insult.. but I could not see where you were going with your argument, unless you ere trying to tie in some sort of relationship between the modern day United Russia political party and the Naziis, and Soros, and the Bush's.. and Mr. Norman.. it's early in the morning. maybe I need to down some more coffee.. I will be popping in and out, but I really need to get back to work, my days off are nearly over.. :)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests