Canada

About three years ago I got into the House concert venue, and I cannot believe I didn't do it sooner. The hosts are great (they usually put you up in their homes), the pay is decent, you sell CDs and you get to travel.

I'm telling you...explore House Concerts.

We have a 5 piece band and have been doing private party's. Lowest was a cut rate for a friend for a community function at $160.00 each. Last week-ends was the usual $1000.00 and really easy hall to play in. Outside door close to stage, "Great" acoustics. Hall operator offered us $2500.00 for New Years Eve 2008, Is that about right? We have also rented a local hall on a few occasions and sold tickets, arranged food, hired workers etc for a best of almost $700.00 each, bit more stress though! During one set we had a fill in bartendress give away the beer because we ran out of Kokanee. Tough to know all the goings on when your playing a set.

We do pretty much Classic Rock but everyone liking your music? Last gig had baby's to Grandparents and seemed the 15-16 year old girls were the only ones complaining.

I'll play for free but they better pay for me to pack a PA!

Thank god. I was feeling cheated. That's generally what I try for 100/per person.

That way there should be no crying.

I wont lie and say I read the entire thread.
I read some of it until my eyes got a little tired.

my 2 cents.

I've been doing this in Toronto for 4 years now (previously in Israel).

What I've learned so far.

Most places will have you play at their venue, no problem at all.
If you are pro and serious, you can book any place.

the pay is a totaly different issue.
The big venues look at you with a 'youre lucky i'm letting you play here' look while smaller owned bars/clubs will actually give you the door money (or split the door with whatever other acts are playing that night).

I've played just about every leading venue in the city (crappy ones too!) and will be playing some of the bigger Toronto Venues this winter and early spring.

Am I getting payed for most of these shows?
I'm not.

But, Isnt it all about exposure?
For me, making money now would be nice but isnt the point.
The point is to get into the heads of our target audience and book more and more shows.

The more shows you book, The more merch you sell.
The more people show up the more bookings you get.
more bookings = more money.

until youre noticed you wont make money.

If youre in it for the money, most chances are..
you wont get noticed, you wont make it.

http://www.adamsgod.com

No, AR, it isn't just about the exposure.

I need the bux, dude.

Ppl that are willing to play for free bring all of our incomes down...unless thier music really isn't worth anything.

I made some pretty good money years ago, but when musicians started all of this starry eyed BS thinking that exposure in bars would be thier ticket to the airwaves, my pay went down. This is the only job (yes, dude, for me it is also a JOB!!) where I've seen pay go down, no matter how much better you get as a performer.

So get the money. Quit making it tougher on the rest of us.

it is about the money,,and it is about playing what you like,and it is about the audience,,most the time the audience dosnt even know what they wanna hear,and if you play a song you dont like for an audience that is cheating,,,cause if you dont like something,,it will show !! (not Honest) but you play a song that you like playing,,they will enjoy !! equiptment costs lots,it takes us two hrs to set up and 2 hrs to tear down,,we play for free,,just pay for the 2 tear downs and set ups !! 8hrs x 4 guys,, this 400$ crap dosnt cut it, our band plays for the music, not worth leaving practise hall !! although it is alot of fun playing for people !! music is a selfish thing we share with others !!

Marshall Man,
That was among the most heart felt, to the point, truest words of wisdom I've ever read on this forum! And to think it's only your second post. Hope you stick around for awhile .
Howlin'

P.S. Good stuff on your player too! Definitely worth a listen.

I probably should not even comment on this but what the heck.
Being a "Praise Band" we leave it up to the Church or Persons putting on the party to make a donation to our band or not. And thus far we have hit about 50%. I would not even take off my S&W long enough to walk into a Bar to play for less than $100.00 and I am an amiture.

My take is that there are different venues, with different pay scales.

Some of the small rooms that seat 50 people, as long as 30 of them are on the dance floor or in the can, (for reference, these usually have fewer than 5 toilettes in the building...staff included) simply can't afford $650 a night. At the same time, these are the same rooms most of us start in and start building a core group of fans. We can also return here from time to time, to let them know we still exist and still care.

Once we can show the larger venues, (the ones that seat 100-200, another 100 on the dance floor, and usually have 5-10 toilettes) that we can pre-fill 40-50 seats ourselves, we start to see a little revenue from attendance and maybe even sell a few shirts and trinkets. We also gain a few more people who would be willing to pay to hear us again.

The truth is, our chances of ever being heared by any industry types before we can personally fill 200 seats on our own, is remote at best. To the poster who suggested to hire a manager and booking agent, none worth thier salt would take your money until you can bring a few listeners to the table.

By all means, on the playing side of things, stick to what you know and believe in. On the business side of things, you definitely need to find a sizzle that works for you and learn to sell it.

Is the music about the money? No.
Is the performance about the money? Absolutely.

Hope my opinion helps...
Wee-Lamm

Its bands that play for nothing that kills it for everyone else.

Hi All

We've never had problems getting gigs, but our experience is that the pay in bars is the pits. We are located in Southern Ontario and are resisting playing in Toronto (don't want to do the 3-night Thursday, Friday, Saturday gigs that many bars in Toronto want for family reasons). Our highest paying gigs are usually in bars with cover charges. Private functions and festivals also tend to pay better.

What is your experience and what short of cash do you get?

Hello.. well.. With my last band we were paid $100.00 for the whole band of four and we had to travel to Stratford from Oakville. Allthough we were only two years new at it. We are now two and a half yers at it and no cash flow at all right now. ( We've had personelle issues trying to find committment ). Any ladies out there know where I am coming from lol.

Well I should probably keep my comments about bars to myself as well ..
BUT here goes.

I've been playing the Ontario, GTA area for a lot of years.
Back in the 70's I made more in bars than I do today on a per man basis.

Here is what I hear over and over from bar owners TODAY..
"Why should I hire your 4 piece band for $500.00 or $600.00 when I can get this 4 piece band for $250.00."

I think the desire for some bands to play,, out weighs their ability or brain power to sell themselves,, so they UNDERCUT all other bands in order to get the gig.
With out thinking about the overall impact of what they just did.

In doing so they literaly rip the guts out of bands that are trying to make an honest $$ for the product they have worked hard on to sell.

We play for fun, we play to exercise our gear, We play out, so hopfully other people can enjoy what we do. It takes time to put together our product, it also costs us money as well. What is wrong with a fair return?

When some one in the same profession uses under cutting tactics I could smack'em and worst. We are all here complaining about the low pay in bars......And I'll bet some of you wrighting on this forum do the undercutting.. Just to get the gig.. yeah go figure eh..

It takes as I stated earlier time and money for us musicians to come up with a product to sell a bar owner. It only take a second for another musician to take that all away from you..by under cutting..
This is the only profession that make a lot less than minimum wage.
With only musicians to blame..
As a result our working band works much less.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

No offence intended RANT off..

Sure I'll "undercut," but it won't be a HUGE difference like from 600 to 200. No. A total of $50 difference? Maybe. The GTA area is a pool of sharks and lil fish. The lil fish get nut'n I'll tell ya that
Well, we always try...