United States

Vinny you are a very intelligent guy. I have a great amount of respect for you! Having said that I view you as a liberal. Y'all tend to debate irrationally sometimes to further your agenda. Common sense tells us that when we fight wars we have logistical nightmares transporting our assets to the country we attack. So much so we usually leave those assets being that it is cheaper than transportation to America You are comparing apples and oranges bro.

Well here is a thought: maybe we could get rid of Obama and his republican lapdog's so called health care, and stop fighting ridiculous and meaning less wars - why not save ALL that money?

And please, don't tell me we are war - who ever fought a war and left their borders open?

Bush and Obama both work for the Saudis - maybe we should post our complaints to Riyadh? Perhaps scrawled as graffiti on a significantly sized nuclear weapon and delivered by airmail?

Talbot

The FACTS are it is a LAW and Obama and Crew HAVE won.
The law is being implemented and Obama has gotten what he wanted.
Shutting down the Govt is doing NOTHING to defeat Obamacare - but as you state it is clearly about Obamcare and it is the only reason we are in this pitiful spot.
Get the votes to repeal the Law or get off the pot

First of all, the government shuts down every weekend and we are able to cope with it...what's the big deal? Let them eat cake.

But regarding this, or any other law....if we can't pay for it, does it matter if it's a law?

That's the big gorilla that almost everyone can't bring themselves to face. We are already printing money like it's actually backed up by something. If we can't pay for this, or ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAM, then it should be defunded and taken out of the budget.


I have to do that at my house and DC ought to do it also. Or shut down until better management is available.

The cost to taxpayers for pursuing two unnecessary wars:
"Iraq, Afghan wars will cost to $4 trillion to $6 trillion, Harvard study says"

Cost to pay for Obamacare:
"Obamacare Now Estimated to Cost $2.6 Trillion in First Decade"

It appears to cost much more to kill other peoples, than it costs to heal our own.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/oba ... 48413.html

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013 ... r-veterans


..... not to mention the $2.3 Trillion lost within the Defense Dept in only 1 year, as announced by Donald Rumsfeld on Sept. 10, 2001 ... that's almost 9 years worth of obamacare right there.

Several issues in this faulty comparison....

On an international level:

How much did an attack on NYC on 9-11 cost us? Can we afford to allow it without a response? I think the cost would be much greater to not make a clear statement to the rest of the world that we will not tolerate State-sponsored terrorism by proxy.




On a national level:

Name even one of the thousands of government agencies who have given truthful budget estimates in advance? You can't do it.

Name even one of the thousands of government agencies who live within a budget without multiplying the overage? You can't do it.


So......we can safely say that we are being lied to about the cost. Yet, even those ridiculous lies are giving us numbers that are unsustainable. Congress has the burden of crunching the numbers. Yes, Congress appropriates a LOT of money on things we can't afford. But there is a difference between a temporary war (even if it is 10 years) and something that is eternal and invading the privacy of every American (citizen or otherwise)




On a personal level: This law is fundamentally against all things American. It destroy's all personal privacy by design, and also makes us all slaves to pay for it.

Our Constitution was written to prevent tyranny from government and Obamacare, as it was written, goes against the spirit of that. It was written and voted on in secrecy and is being forced upon the majority of Americans who DO NOT want it. Doesn't matter if that is a slight majority or an overwhelming one....we are the people who will foot the bill and it is fundamentally unfair that our Politicians have exempted themselves from the health "care" they are imposing on us.




And the position of conservatives has always been mischaracterized by liberals and media. We have no problem with discussing what to do about health-care issues, we just didn't like being locked out of the discussion, (unconstitutionally) and then imposed on us in a tyrannical manner....especially when the solution they have imposed on us is so beaurocratic and likely to destroy our economy FOREVER.

This is what changed me from a Democrat to a Republican in the 80s. I agreed with the stated goals and motivation of the Democrat Party, but the problem was the results were never what they stated. After a while I became wise that they knew it would be too late once people figured out they had been conned, and then they would simply use their willing accomplisses in the media to blame the GOP

I like gridlock in Congress. The slower they go, the better off all of us will be, since both Parties are toxic.


My conspiratorial mind looks at the government shutdown as an organized event from both parties. It really wouldn't surprise me if Boehner, Reid, Pelosi, Obama, and Ryan had a meeting to discuss exactly what was going to happen and when.

Think about it....both parties can claim to be working in the interests of their local constituents while blaming the other party for any discomfort, and use the situation as a fundraiser for the next campaign. In the meantime, both parties could do some politically unpopular things (slash funding on bloated programs that need to be slashed) without getting blamed individually for it




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