Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I just got a tentative offer for some free studio time in a decent studio environment.
(as in minutes ago..)(tee-hee)(strange but true)

I have material to record but I am a little nervous about it, considering the last time. (Manhattan et cetera)

Les and I are not talking.

I am considering asking him if he wants to come and participate, seeing as how he won't have to run the DAW at all. (Get away from that board!!!) lol

He'll play keys, no mixing and no mastering. No percussion to program. (using a real drummer) And none of his equipment, so it'd be pretty much even keel. (Just play the music, man.)

I kind of think he'll get mad, considering he likes to mix/master and considers himself to be the final arbitrator on what's being done..

But the problem was never with his playing and the studio should be able to curb his mixing board urges/moments of doubt/temptation to rewrite that which does not need to be adjusted.

Am I pissing up a rope again>?
Or should I let him know the scoop and ask him gently if he's interested?

I figure the worst he could say is no. The rest I already heard.
But he really is a good keys player, possibly the best so far, so I am tempted to ask. I kind of think he'll say no, but I am sure of nothing these days.

I got another guy who can play keys, but he's not at the same level.
Plus he's playing along to whatever is going on, Les was at least equal in that he was writing right along side of me and "I didn't have to do all the heavy lifting".

If I don't take Les, I'll go it alone.
Easier to record and then I can always regurgitate the vittles back to the baby birds later if they are hungry.

What do you think?

Agree to disagree shake hands and be done with that.
Squash that negative chit... it'll give you an ulcer!
You're already getting your cake with the free studio time. Les can play and write... right? You've had some success getting things done before. I'd say it's worth some effort especially if he was a friend.

Scott - the one issue I could see: is this YOUR project or you AND Les' project? If it's both of you, and you know how Les will want to control things HIS way from past experience, go for it. Remember that even though he's not doing the mixing, he will still want you to do things his way.
If it's YOUR project, use the other keys player and you can tell him what you want him to do.
At the least, you can get tracks recorded (free is good!) and then mix later when you get keys played the way you want them.

It's not as bad as all that.

He's easy to write with but he's unsure about a lot of things and I can see in the wee hours of the night, he's panicking a little bit.
He then wants to work on it, alone, in the middle of the night.
That's where the trouble starts.

The next thing you know, I show up to hear something different than when I left the project. I know he thinks he's doing the best thing he can for what's at stake but that's like getting kicked in the jollies and told to like it or lump it IMO.

He's upset because he invests a lot of time into these creations.
We were using his computer for the layering as well.
But one can't decide to be solely responsible for this music and then deliver a sh*t product.

Besides, I am the antithesis of his process in that I crank it out FAST.
The faster it is, the better creative hold I get on it and that allows me to fill the spaces with quality oddities that makes extra dimensional beings drool. I figure I am kind of a taskmaster because of this. I am ready to go at all times and I like nothing better than to create. But I have an issue with completeion as well, so I won't work on anything new until the last one is done. Thus the forced march aspect. (You can sleep when you die) lol

He wants a long time to mix/master. Those were his sole responsibilities; to mix/master, play keys, program percussion and basically oversee the technical aspects of what is produced. You want a week>? Ok. If you take 3 weeks, you are causing me ulcers. If I had my druthers, I'd like it to take almost no time at all for continuity sake but that almost never happens unless you are a big ticket item.

The reality of it is that if he adjusted things and it was good, you just don't dare complain. (It's happened before) You just thank god that it came out well and hope that everything remains rosy. But that's not what happened the last time and he thinks I threw him under the bus because others didn't like it and "I was just hopping on the band wagon".

I didn't like it because I thought it was poorly mixed and I had issue with the "scraping of the layers". Sometimes it's difficult enough to come up with something that works. If one is to modify the project in a large manner like that, say something prior to destruction. That's when I panic, when I hear something unexpected. AND KEEP COPIES OF WHAT YOU'VE DONE SO WE CAN ROLL IT BACK IF NECESSARY.

And I faqed up when I just took it as gospel that he did what I thought he was going to do and posted the mastered version without listening to it.
(I can be so naive.)

I got a harangue about "it's my equipment and my time and my work, so I am the final say on the product at hand".

With me, that will never float. I chucked those people from the studio in Manhattan for far less and I'd do it again.

But I am not thinking that it wasn't excellent when we worked together, merely that it's a different animal that gets produced when it's a collaboration with Les.

The guy is a really good keys player with great equipment.
I am fond of his technical expertise as well. I just don't understand what he does and why he does, just like I am quite sure he doesn't quite get where I am coming from, aesthetically speaking.

So my overall feeling is that he's going to sh*t the non-golden brick when/if I ask him and he'll politely refuse because I am not going for the schitck from last time.

The part of this is that is that I am being given free reign to record an EP and 5 tunes is easy. I have that already ready.
But they are interested in "Come and Gone" as in they want to revamp it, rerecord it the way it was and that is most definitely a co-created work with Les.

You see, I don't write stuff that mellow on the average.
"British Mod" is not my regular cup of tea. I can hang with it, but it's not the first thing that enters my mind.

I wallow in the psychedelic pits by way of Seattle, but it's fun down here and the music is a little on the weird side.

PS: I have never been one to tell people what to do.
I prefer a union where people play and it's a feeling of unity among us.
The sum of the parts, NEVER the individual.
Play what you feel, don't talk, don't look, just feel it.

Ultimately, I think you'll always have a better product collaborating with someone. Otherwise, I have to write everything in it's entirety from the beginning and not only is that time consuming, it's more stressful.

One also experiences more writer's block going it alone.
With a good cohort, he knows faintly where you are headed just like you know faintly where he is headed musically. Hopefully you just meet somewhere in the middle.

He's a good guy. He's just used to doing it all himself.

The business model is often described as part technical and part abstract.
He's a little more technical and I am the abstract for sure.

Sounds like Donny and Marie.. LMAO

I'm thinking that if he doesn't have to do any mixing and just plays keys, that would immediately remove the issues at hand.

I'm not mad at him and I almost understand him, almost but not quite.

Someone else besides us will mix/master and all we have to do is that which we do best, concentrate on the music.

So if he declines, I'll go alone. I got 5 besides. And I don't have the nerve to use something we worked on together, that's just sneaky and underhanded and if he did it to me, there would be blood. lol

So no..no creepy night moves etc.

People may spend time on the bottom, the difference is that you don't have to give in to whatever negativity lies in wait. You have to believe you got a shot and stick to what you know. The only person you hurt when you give in to that type of crap is yourself because if there is only one thing I know for sure, it is that life is circular.

(What you do most assuredly will come back to haunt you/bite you on the ass.)

So I spoke to the folks at "XYZ" studios again. (name changed to protect the guilty)
They want to know what the hold up is.

I just told them to "forget it". I am not redoing/rehashing "come and gone". I just don't want to, too many other things to do than to waste time with him and old materials.

I think Les and I split for a reason and I don't really want to talk to that jackass, he's intent on doing things his way. And that's fine, just not with me. If you don't want 50-50 during the creation process, why would I waste my time? Besides he thinks that it's all his doing yet. HIS TIME, HIS EQUIPMENT, HIS WORK..."later" you bipolar a$$h0l3.

I know why she divorced him. Like a light switch, "on or off" but nothing in between.

I'd rather play keys with the pussies doing the WHAM material than have to endure that jackass. f**k him and his tone deaf ear from hell.

Maybe he can find a singer with 4 octaves to push around. LOL
(better get out your wallet)

PS: I am going to release a newer tune I just finished here about a week ago. I have an industry friend that's volunteered to mix/master for me..when he's done, we'll post it. And it will have vocals and everything else, not just some unfinished pile of sh*t that sounds like dog meat.

It's kind of softer and and a departure from some of the heavier music.
AND NO FING KEYS AT ALL. YA DON'T NEED THEM.

Starfish Scott wrote: .. that sounds like dog meat.

Dog meat .. never paid it much attention. But Pig meat, I have heard some great Pigmeat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aepqueDFMB0

LOL Thank you Vinny, I am madder than hell and that helped considerably.

Bummer dude.

But what's past stays there... got to move on. Time waits for no one.
Either way I look forward to hearing your new tune!

Thanks Jahva, I'm think I'll like it but otherwise I am sure it be as popular as a Migraine. Tough critics in these waters, but that's what you want.

Hopefully it won't be "scraped and raped", but this is the first time I worked with this guy. I was just so desperate to lay my tracks for a tune I had in a holding pattern for some months now. He offered to help me. I laid them super fast, done in record time but I knew what this tune would be to the nth degree. (no guessing on this one)

I was saving it, but I guess there wasn't any real reason to save it.
So it's laid, we'll see what he does to it. (gulp)
He said it was fantastic. We will see.

I know I'll have to listen to it very hard BEFORE I post it, not like the last time. But he's doing it for free, hopefully the result will match his proposed enthusiasm. (gulp) lol

(fingers crossed + prayer)

Looking forward to a listen! Told you to stay away from Les(s)!

Wish you well getting your next session together Scott.

Here is another tune to hopefully help things along (knowing how you like the Floyd and all ... or is that just the pink ones?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQbQ4Yrbzbw

LOL Vinny, I am not very well rounded musically speaking, as in there is an awful lot I never heard yet.

Having said that, I appreciate the links you post and I attempt to listen to each and everyone just to educate myself to whatever else is out there, MINUS HARDCORE. I have no interest in atonal/non-melodic music.

As for the other tune, I got an issue.

My industry pal who's mixing/mastering showed my work to someone else.
The trouble lies in the fact that he wants to buy this tune on the cheap.

It's not much cash, but I could really use it.

I feel very upset though, I had this tune in my head for the last 6 months.
As a result it's a bit more polished and thought out than my regular stuff.

I have no copy yet and both of them are pressuring me to sell.
And no he didn't even offer me $1K, so it feels like I am giving it away.

I have to go back on Monday and talk. I think my "pal" is going to try to charge me $, now that I don't want to sell. (But that's a double edged sword, considering he's going to do it to MY specifications if I have to pay him.)



Why does every musical transaction seem like you are next to haggle with a really good used car salesman>?

Starfish Scott wrote:LOL Vinny, I am not very well rounded musically speaking, as in there is an awful lot I never heard yet.

Having said that, I appreciate the links you post and I attempt to listen to each and everyone just to educate myself to whatever else is out there, MINUS HARDCORE. I have no interest in atonal/non-melodic music.

As for the other tune, I got an issue.

My industry pal who's mixing/mastering showed my work to someone else.
The trouble lies in the fact that he wants to buy this tune on the cheap.

It's not much cash, but I could really use it.

I feel very upset though, I had this tune in my head for the last 6 months.
As a result it's a bit more polished and thought out than my regular stuff.

I have no copy yet and both of them are pressuring me to sell.
And no he didn't even offer me $1K, so it feels like I am giving it away.

I have to go back on Monday and talk. I think my "pal" is going to try to charge me $, now that I don't want to sell. (But that's a double edged sword, considering he's going to do it to MY specifications if I have to pay him.)



Why does every musical transaction seem like you are next to haggle with a really good used car salesman>?

Thanks Scott, glad you enjoy the tunes!



Well the good news is you have made something they want!

If can, you might try to sell them a License to your song. Maybe something like a few hundred and they can have exclusive rights for a period of 3 or 5 years etc, at which time all rights would revert back to you, and you can then renegotiate a new deal at that time with whatever modifications seem appropriate by then. Or maybe they would prefer something more along the lines of a non-exclusive license for a longer duration.

It is best if you keep your rights in the long run. Did you ever see that show "Where Are They Now?" .....

lol I am only a simpleton that writes music.

I detest the tech end.
I detest the sales end.
The people are scary and weird.
Producers from small shops are like fleas on a dog, they all want some of your blood.

License? Contractual obligations? non-exclusive licensing?

Naw, I just write and play.
More than this, I don't really comprehend.
I am not crooked enough to be a lawyer or politician. (thank god)

And I get what you mean about that show "where are they now..."?
Reminds me of that guy who was holding up the post card and talking about how he was robbed. (gulp) (here at bmix)

Remember that guy Vinny? Was that before your time here?
I haven't seen him in a while.

I wonder wtf it actually sounds like for them to be trying to get that away from me>? Everyone is playing "bump and run".

It takes a certain kind of scumbag to take my tracks and then try to get me to sell without hearing the final. I got a bad feeling about this one.

I was talking to another friend of mine at his place and he tossed me a tube of KY as i was talking, said I'd probably need this.

I didn't laugh at all. I think I actually winced.

Starfish Scott wrote:lol I am only a simpleton that writes music.

I detest the tech end.
I detest the sales end.
The people are scary and weird.
Producers from small shops are like fleas on a dog, they all want some of your blood.

License? Contractual obligations? non-exclusive licensing?

Naw, I just write and play.
More than this, I don't really comprehend.
I am not crooked enough to be a lawyer or politician. (thank god)

Same for me... that chit takes you away from music. You have to have someone you trust if you want to be in the business of making music for profit. And you'll be lucky to find them. And gawd forbid you make something worth a chit... history says you won't see a dime.