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Napolean was supposedly a rather odd character. The Napolean complex is unfortunately a commonplace personality defect in band "leaders". You guys (NKF) haven't got any members with the Napolean complex. That's why your music progresses as it has.

You might be surprised Bob.
I'm as freakin anal as they come.
And Ray ... he is full blooded redhead for sure.

But when it comes to the Band .

Your absolutely correct.

Family ( the band ) comes before the individuals.
Always has.

Sans, What As great photo of you two!

You're simply the Alpha male. I get along great with SOME Alpha males. Those who have to be the Alpha male 100% of the time are trouble. Not worth messing with if you're a creative musician. I tell those 100%ers to send me their songlist, I'll learn every one and show up ad gig, no rehearsal needed. As far as working on originals I'll come up with basslines for EVERY one of theirs IF they come up with guitar parts for EVERY one of mine. Now I don't have dozens of originals. So I usually do more of theirs than mine (if they have more than mine). The bulk of the learning curve is usually on me. Time permitting I can usually learn an entire night's worth of music, even if I get blisters doing it (often hapens), within a few weeks. If the other band members censor ANY of my original tunes, I leave. No whining necessary. I'm happy to jump through your hoops if you're happy jumping through a few of mine. Deal or no deal...

I would not say I'm an alpha anything. I just hold my own very well and I'm inclined to stand stubbornly firm on my ground.

Your description of how you exchange song ideas and the work is one valid method out of a thousand... It works for you, but maybe not for others.

RE Censor: You clearly can come up with bass lines... on demand... But hypothetically, what if i think they suck on a particular song? Are we supposed to just accept it and settle for that?

Coming up with a guitar solo or a bass line or a piano section..does not necessarily warrant an automatic pass to use it... If it did, I'd just go find some software and plug it in... to fill all the gaps.

Also, most songwriters that I know, including my self, don't normally compose their song ideas strictly off a bass line (or if they do, its usually some very short ditty that sparks an idea...) . Ditty or otherwise, Even the bassist, if he's a genuine songwriter, he'll usually hit it from a piano or a guitar.

Once the general song idea is established (i.e the general theme, or story,) , then, typically the bassist can kick right in with the Bass part and add his/her creative input there as well. . The leads rhythms, etc all get in on it as well. Its actually a very awesome way to write something down fast and efficient. The refinements and polishing come with practice and rehearsal. And I'm gonna say this as politely as i know how...
If you come to the band with a 10 minute slap-down of a bass line and you are think you 're done... not expecting to rehearse/change up, test out afterword, ...sorry dude, But I'd ask you to leave.

First the amount of time working a bassline is irrelevant, it's the results. I've spent as little as a few minutes and as long as years tweaking them to fruition. There's a band in KC area that performs live and creates original songs ON THE SPOT. Good musicians can usually create something redeeming almost immediately. Advanced jazz performers do it all the time. I've had many different people sit in with us at gigs, no rehearsal needed. Second, ultimately the only person(s) whose opinion counts is the members of the audience. The audience could be at a gig or people here on Bandmix listening to your posted tunes (BTW I like your tunes posted). If the rest of your band feels a song sounds good go with that and play it for others. As far as censorship I'm not talking about individual basslines. I'm talking about your other band members wanting to bring in their own tunes. I'm willing to work out ANY of your tunes REGARDLESS of my opinion of them IF you are willing to work out my tunes REGARDLESS of your opinion of them. As soon as I hear "We're not playing that tune" I'm heading out the door, no whining needed. I understand your thinking about building a song from a bassline, perhaps you've NEVER done it before. It can work very well if you APPLY yourself just as I would apply myself to fit a superior bassline to your tune. We can argue until we're blue in the face but the bottom line is whether a song works for the AUDIENCE. You can think a song sucks and if the audience eats it up then how bad does it suck?

[img][img]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm74/sanshouheil/Copy2ofNKF7-4-11018.jpg[/img][/img]


I find this whole conversation rather odd.
" Floyd " here, is the best and as we say the only true musician in our band.
Soft spoke, humorous, kind an loving soul he is.
Vietnam veteran, father grandfather, I could go on all day but I'm sure you get my point by now.
Saturday, at last moments notice he was asked to fill as bassist for the band that went on before us.
He did with pleasure, playing southern gospel music then transitioning into our original rock without a hitch.
He composes the bass lines for all of our original music with total autonomy.

Floyd is the man.

That's awesome, Sans. Some of the best jams I ever heard were when the bassist is out cold and another good bassist is asked to fill in.

It isn't without some fear, but I think it gives you an edge and an urge to really hear what is being played by the others.

First the amount of time working a bassline is irrelevant, it's the results. I've spent as little as a few minutes and as long as years tweaking them to fruition. There's a band in KC area that performs live and creates original songs ON THE SPOT. Good musicians can usually create something redeeming almost immediately. Advanced jazz performers do it all the time. I've had many different people sit in with us at gigs, no rehearsal needed. Second, ultimately the only person(s) whose opinion counts is the members of the audience. The audience could be at a gig or people here on Bandmix listening to your posted tunes (BTW I like your tunes posted). If the rest of your band feels a song sounds good go with that and play it for others. As far as censorship I'm not talking about individual basslines. I'm talking about your other band members wanting to bring in their own tunes. I'm willing to work out ANY of your tunes REGARDLESS of my opinion of them IF you are willing to work out my tunes REGARDLESS of your opinion of them. As soon as I hear "We're not playing that tune" I'm heading out the door, no whining needed. I understand your thinking about building a song from a bassline, perhaps you've NEVER done it before. It can work very well if you APPLY yourself just as I would apply myself to fit a superior bassline to your tune. We can argue until we're blue in the face but the bottom line is whether a song works for the AUDIENCE. You can think a song sucks and if the audience eats it up then how bad does it suck?

Ok I think I better understand what you mean...
There's a couple of things:

Scenario 1:
If you work for a manager, who books you in a room with a specific audience, he/ she might have to ask the band to NOT play certain songs... (Its happened). This is especially true in some overseas venues. In any case, if the band agrees to observe that caution...somebody's songs are gonna get ditched in that tour.

Scenario 2:
In the studio, using the argument that you presented about what the audience wants... The A&R guy and/or the label that finances your project might tell ya ...'sorry but this song has gotta go... if yo wanna sell this beast before Christmas...yadda yadda and yadda... . Again... the song gets ditched.

Scenario 3"
You do a 1 hour show and your set list has 2 hours... A) you gotta size up your audience pretty fast, B) you pick the songs that best appeas that audience and you toss the ones that don't.


Scenario 4:
Your at your last rehearsal before the big night... and wham, the drummer pipes up and says "Hey guys I just wrote this song on the way in, can we do it for the show tonight?" In which case you say to him... Yep, but only if its fast , a standard 16 bars of this and that ,etc...cause anything else is just not gonna gel till we sit down with it.

In all 4 scenarios... what if... the same songs keep getting tossed...

Listen, I think I'm with you on the general idea that if you are my bandmate, you get the same privilage and rights that I do, and so on... I have never said i would ever deny other members the right to get their songs in... But I have said, they better not suck... . I am fairly conscientious at what I attempt.. I'm only asking that the other mates act the same... If they can't oblige..then I guess its a stale mate...and ..so everybody moves on...

This is a funny thread...I'm not sure the original post will help me find a girl bass player.
I might record some low frequency noise with some drum beats mixed accordingly and play it in my car, with a huge sign in the window that says "on sale - bass amp + shoes + beer".

That should trap a chick bassist!

Consider handing a guitar player a bass covered in super glue. They start playing some Primus song to mess around and BAM, they are now glued to it forever.

You can always find a new guitarist.

Guitar players talk too much tho!!!

nyuck nyuck!!

Miss Violet - your tunes kick ass!

Consider handing a guitar player a bass covered in super glue. They start playing some Primus song to mess around and BAM, they are now glued to it forever.

You can always find a new guitarist.

The conventional wisdom is that bass players and guitar players are genitally different.

? Talk too much ?



I'm the one most likely to just start playing so the rest of em will shut up.

I probably shouldn't get into this argument, but here we go.

When we write a song, everybody has an equal opinion on any of the parts. We all get together and write then. If our drummer is playing something that is off and I have a better idea, I'll let him know. We play through again and decide then on what fits better. Same thing goes for every instrument. If anybody has an opinion on anything, they get to voice it and we consider what they said. This happens a lot with one of our guitarists. He'll start to write a song and ask what we think of it. If we all like it, we build off what he had. If we don't, we try something else; but most of the time, nobody will write a song and say "this is the way it is going to be played".

I wasn't arguing just having a little fun.

I wasn't arguing just having a little fun.

Just like a girl... I heard they just wanna have fu-un.

I wasn't arguing just having a little fun.

sorry, not you. I was talking about those other two guys.

This is a funny thread...I'm not sure the original post will help me find a girl bass player.
I might record some low frequency noise with some drum beats mixed accordingly and play it in my car, with a huge sign in the window that says "on sale - bass amp + shoes + beer".

That should trap a chick bassist!

For guy bass players, "on sale - bass amp + hot wings + beer"