Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I know a lot of people on here use a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) to record.

Well I'm having nightmares with headroom which is why my track Collector isn't up to scratch as regards headroom at the moment. I use VST's and analogue together but have found some VST's add an unknown muffle sometimes, its really annoying when coming down through the mix.

I spoke to a few people on other places about this and I realize that its just personal taste most times in fact but its the NOISE in between that stops me reaching that pinnacle where noise is gone and clear sound can be heard thus allowing that volume knob to be used.

What are your experiences with this? are you the same as me with Vst & Analogue and if you are what is your methodology in this?

Cheers.

Oh and on writing this I looked up this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEPq0FvFm3g

A simple tune but the name MAX HEADROOM seemed valid. hahaha

What DAW software are you using?

Mics? Interface? Preamps?

Hi DB.
Analogue straight in, raw with no effects channeled through a Bheringer Mixer. That's the only preamp I have other than a Mini Tube preamp for vocals. DAW is Ardour/Rosegarden (Linux) with various VST's.

The problem seems to arise when converting Midi to audio, it never gets near the ceiling and while that might seem great of course the X Factor in noise that build up over several layers stops me from reaching that headroom required for decent volume.

I did in fact have more success this morning,
Many thanks for the reply.

90 dB wrote:What DAW software are you using?
Mics? Interface? Preamps?

I analyzed the first two songs on your website, and I think your problem is too much headroom, not enough. The first one had a peak level of -7.329 dB. The second one had a peak of -7.263 dB. I mix all my stuff to a peak level of -3 dB. Many people use 0 dB.


As for the noise, I would start with the Behringer mixer. Their preamps are notoriously noisy. Noise is cumulative. A little noise on each track becomes a lot of noise at mixdown. Cables add noise. Are you using good cables? Do you have access to a gate? Gating each track (gently) can greatly reduce noise.


I am not familiar with your DAW - I use Sonar Producer and Wavelab for mastering. Sonar is pricey, but it seamlessly integrates MIDI with Audio.


Are you using an external synth through the analog inputs of the mixer? If so, you might benefit from getting a dedicated interface, and keep everything in the digital world.


Trippy tracks, by the way.

Wow.
Thanks DB

I think you can tell I'm very confused by all of this. Yes my cables are good ones. I will look again at various track levels isolated. Up there my stuff is a mess in all honesty owing to this.

Thanks very much for the information and help sincerely.

90 dB wrote:I analyzed the first two songs on your website, and I think your problem is too much headroom, not enough. The first one had a peak level of -7.329 dB. The second one had a peak of -7.263 dB. I mix all my stuff to a peak level of -3 dB. Many people use 0 dB.

As for the noise, I would start with the Behringer mixer. Their preamps are notoriously noisy. Noise is cumulative. A little noise on each track becomes a lot of noise at mixdown. Cables add noise. Are you using good cables? Do you have access to a gate? Gating each track (gently) can greatly reduce noise.

I am not familiar with your DAW - I use Sonar Producer and Wavelab for mastering. Sonar is pricey, but it seamlessly integrates MIDI with Audio.

Are you using an external synth through the analog inputs of the mixer? If so, you might benefit from getting a dedicated interface, and keep everything in the digital world.


Trippy tracks, by the way.

Hey 90db:

I hate sounding like a total nube but I have some difficulty with all this terminology.
I often have to look stuff up for definitions however it rarely gives me insight to application.

Can you expound on the term "headroom" in moron terms for me ??
I mean I have a general understanding. Perhaps if you could apply some parameters it would help me get a better understanding.

This might help explain it graphically:


http://www.insaneasound.com/headroom.htm

I cannot thank you enough for that link.
Really puts it into perspective for me.
Let me go back and study further.

Cool.

Thanks very much DB
I nailed it now.
What was happening is that I wasn't using the Behringer to monitor the inbound midi signal when converting to Audio resulting is way too much headroom. In fact everything I have is a wafer thin line.

I just ran a test and sure enough it clipped all over the place and a flat signal resulted just like this.


This is way too cool a way to start a week. again thanks very much indeed.

90 dB wrote:This might help explain it graphically:
http://www.insaneasound.com/headroom.htm

[/img]

sanshouheil wrote::D
I cannot thank you enough for that link.
Really puts it into perspective for me.
Let me go back and study further.

Cool.

You are quite welcome.

Chippy wrote:Thanks very much DB
I nailed it now.
What was happening is that I wasn't using the Behringer to monitor the inbound midi signal when converting to Audio resulting is way too much headroom. In fact everything I have is a wafer thin line.

I just ran a test and sure enough it clipped all over the place and a flat signal resulted just like this.


This is way too cool a way to start a week. again thanks very much indeed.

90 dB wrote:This might help explain it graphically:
http://www.insaneasound.com/headroom.htm

[/img]

Great! I always try to keep my tracks peaking at about -6 dB while recording, to avoid digital overs. I can always increase the gain on them later.


Another hint is to avoid compression/limiting while recording tracks. It kills the dynamics. You can always step on it later.

Many thanks again DB.
At least I now know what I was doing wrong but I do see your point in keeping it all digital, that makes sense since I'm monitoring with a rotary analogue DB rate, mastering a signal in digital. It's obviously what I've been doing all along. I think you were the first to explain it to this thicko (me) in a way I could understand it so Kudos and many thanks again.

Keep well.
Best wishes.

90 dB wrote: Great! I always try to keep my tracks peaking at about -6 dB while recording, to avoid digital overs. I can always increase the gain on them later.

Another hint is to avoid compression/limiting while recording tracks. It kills the dynamics. You can always step on it later.

Ooh good info here, people..

Learn and burn..

For sure!
Been playing with the zoom out at the METALSHOP (that's pronounced <b> in East Texas.)
About had a nuclear catastrophe on my hands, as I was recording off the mains output on the PA. Had to unplug the main speakers got dang LOUD in there trying to get the level up.
Increasing the sensitivity of the recorder helped a lot too.

Glad I got canceled at work today.
Learning a lot !!
Wish the whole band was here.

Gee what happened to my post ??