Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

First off thanks to anyone who listened to my efforts before and provided feedback. It was very helpful. I've been working hard the last month trying to do this better, and it'd be great if I could get another objective evaluation.

Keep in mind that I'm not shooting for recording artist quality here, by any means. I just want to use these to spark interest so I can get some auditions for local bands, and hopefully have a leg up on the competition.

If you hear any problems, it would be awesome to get an idea where they are. I'm hoping that if things need to be fixed I can avoid having to re-record everything.

My demos can be found at http://www.bandmix.com/tj_211/

Thanks again.

Style is not really my cup of meat but your on key and in synch with the music, which is what is wanted in a singer, so no issues here. Your tone and your delivery seem to be your own, so no criticism of that. It sounds to me that you are singing properly from the diaphragm, which is good, meaning your not coming from the throat of through your nose. I listened to some of all your numbers.

Did you do the harmonies in the first number yourself? It sounds good, which is a good sign.

My two cents.

I'm hearing pitchy issues here on the first song. You are pushing a bit too hard, & going sharp, which is way worse than going flat, btw, to the human ear.

2nd song - pitchy problems remain. Your timing is very good, but you're singing like you can't really hear yourself.

3rd song - there are timing problems on this. Your syllables aren't matching up to the tempo like they should, & you sound like you're straining throughout the piece.

4th song - I'd suggest that you go get some coaching, if you want to pursue singing professionally, or even at the occasional karaoke event. At 1:16 - 1:20 you are WAY off, just wandering aimlessly off key, both sharp & flat.

Your tone never changes when it's called for, & you're in need of some work on pitch, emotional expression, & just fulfilling the needs of the song as a singer, overall. Find a good coach. It's pretty clear to me that you have little to no experience as a singer, from these recordings.

I hope I haven't sounded too negative, but there are just so many issues that I dunno how to sound positive about your singing.

Since this is your 1st post under this nic, I have no idea if I've evaluated you before, but if I had, I'd be willing to bet that my assessments match up pretty well between them...

Sorry I couldn't be more encouraging, but sometimes that's just how it goes...& do remember that this is only my opinion, but I doubt that there are many here would want to work with you as a lead or back up singer.

Best of luck, anyway.

philbymon wrote:I'm hearing pitchy issues here on the first song. You are pushing a bit too hard, & going sharp, which is way worse than going flat, btw, to the human ear.

2nd song - pitchy problems remain. Your timing is very good, but you're singing like you can't really hear yourself.

3rd song - there are timing problems on this. Your syllables aren't matching up to the tempo like they should, & you sound like you're straining throughout the piece.

4th song - I'd suggest that you go get some coaching, if you want to pursue singing professionally, or even at the occasional karaoke event. At 1:16 - 1:20 you are WAY off, just wandering aimlessly off key, both sharp & flat.

Your tone never changes when it's called for, & you're in need of some work on pitch, emotional expression, & just fulfilling the needs of the song as a singer, overall. Find a good coach. It's pretty clear to me that you have little to no experience as a singer, from these recordings.

I hope I haven't sounded too negative, but there are just so many issues that I dunno how to sound positive about your singing.

Since this is your 1st post under this nic, I have no idea if I've evaluated you before, but if I had, I'd be willing to bet that my assessments match up pretty well between them...

Sorry I couldn't be more encouraging, but sometimes that's just how it goes...& do remember that this is only my opinion, but I doubt that there are many here would want to work with you as a lead or back up singer.

Best of luck, anyway.

I don't hear him veering off pitch. His voice is what it is but he's definitely in tune. Considering the style he's wonking in, what's to be expected? I mean he's not Tom Jones but he's not Dylan either. I also did hear emotional changes within the body of some of these songs, so I think your a bit picky in that regard. What's he going for? Is he trying to be smooth like some country crooner or is he going for the alternative whiner? Its more of the latter than the former for sure but what does the music call for? I think you have an issue with the style and that's not what he's asking you to evaluate. Its not everybody that has a set of pipes like, say Glen Campbell singing Wichita Lineman and again that's not what he's trying to do.

"4th song - I'd suggest that you go get some coaching, if you want to pursue singing professionally, or even at the occasional karaoke event. At 1:16 - 1:20 you are WAY off, just wandering aimlessly off key, both sharp & flat."

If you didn't hear this, I hope you use a tuner regularly.

philbymon wrote:"4th song - I'd suggest that you go get some coaching, if you want to pursue singing professionally, or even at the occasional karaoke event. At 1:16 - 1:20 you are WAY off, just wandering aimlessly off key, both sharp & flat."

If you didn't hear this, I hope you use a tuner regularly.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, (wish I had that picture), but I went to your profile to hear what you do. Nice songs BTW and well recorded but you're in two different worlds musically. If that's you in the first number there, you sing well, Number two is a nice vocal as well. Number three however, is someone going for certain style of vocal, wouldn't you say? Its okay but it ain't opera. I think you're enforcing your stylistic ideas on him about what you think a singer should sound like. Dylan doesn't sound like you but probably think he can't sing. Robert Plant doesn't sound like you at all but would you say he can't sing? You don't sound like Bono and you don't sound like willie Nelson either but all of those people can sing, though Dylan can lose his way these days. Then there's Gene Clark, a whole different thing. Now that guy could sing but the OP isn't trying for that.

Well, thank you, first of all.

However, my background in music is rather more extensive than the music on my profile would suggest. Yes, I did all the vocals on the 1st & 3rd songs on my profile. I also sang one of the 2 back ups on the 2nd. Yes, of course I was looking for a certain style on #3. It was a spoof piece. In addition, I am advertising myself as a bass player/rhythm guitarist 1st, & lead/bu vocalist 2nd. It's fairly obvious to me that my own vocal tones would prolly get old in a band situation after awhile, though I can hold my own as a solo fairly well, thanks to picking & choosing my material very carefully. I do know my limitations.

I have worked with far better singers than I'll ever be, & have played far more diverse musical styles than simply those 3 examples.

I see no real need to defend my musical pedigree on this issue, though. When a singer wanders 1/4 tone up or down, he or she is out of key, & that is what I heard. While this man's style might work for, say, punk (which I also doubt, truth be told), it definitely does not work for what he's singing here. He comes at it as if he truly cannot hear his own voice, which surprizes me, since he sings kinda loud, for the most part.

Still, it's only my opinion, & I will hold onto it, cuz that's what I hear when I listen to him. He doesn't grasp the music, to my ear. He needs pro coaching before trying out as a singer, imo. Would you work with him as your front man? I would not.

Running Away - This one was actually okay

Anna Molly - I'm sorry, but I actually found myself laughing at it

Diary of Jane - I used to be a fan of Breaking Benjamin, and you ruined this song. You were off time in some spots, and off pitch, and when you do your harsh voice you sound like a poser.

Here Without You - Not bad, but still not impressive

You need to control your flow. What I mean by that, is you sing every word as a separate entity. Like in Diary of Jane, you sing "...so now I'll ask do you. LIKE THAT, do you. LIKE THAT" and there's so much jump from your regular singing to your harsh singing. Your sentences should be one breath, and a controlled flow, and there should be a TRANSITION between your clean and harsh voice.

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Ryan_Strain wrote:
Diary of Jane - I used to be a fan of Breaking Benjamin, and you ruined this song. You were off time in some spots, and off pitch, and when you do your harsh voice you sound like a poser.

Wow, I agree with Ryan on something.

I'm a big fan of Breaking Benjamin. I love this particular song.

You killed it.

"Here Without You" - my band actually covers this song, so I hear it at least once a week. I know this song intimately. Your singing is atrocious.

Honestly - you sound exactly like one of countless people trying their hand at a Karaoke bar. I've been to a few karaoke bars - not by choice mind you - and your singing is right on par with the bad karaoke singing I've heard.

If you want to sing, I'd suggest vocal lessons immediately. No one should have to subjected to this kind of vocal display.

philbymon wrote:Well, thank you, first of all.

However, my background in music is rather more extensive than the music on my profile would suggest. Yes, I did all the vocals on the 1st & 3rd songs on my profile. I also sang one of the 2 back ups on the 2nd. Yes, of course I was looking for a certain style on #3. It was a spoof piece. In addition, I am advertising myself as a bass player/rhythm guitarist 1st, & lead/bu vocalist 2nd. It's fairly obvious to me that my own vocal tones would prolly get old in a band situation after awhile, though I can hold my own as a solo fairly well, thanks to picking & choosing my material very carefully. I do know my limitations.

I have worked with far better singers than I'll ever be, & have played far more diverse musical styles than simply those 3 examples.

I see no real need to defend my musical pedigree on this issue, though. When a singer wanders 1/4 tone up or down, he or she is out of key, & that is what I heard. While this man's style might work for, say, punk (which I also doubt, truth be told), it definitely does not work for what he's singing here. He comes at it as if he truly cannot hear his own voice, which surprizes me, since he sings kinda loud, for the most part.

Still, it's only my opinion, & I will hold onto it, cuz that's what I hear when I listen to him. He doesn't grasp the music, to my ear. He needs pro coaching before trying out as a singer, imo. Would you work with him as your front man? I would not.

I've been singing in choruses, male chorales, church choirs and bands for what? fifty years on and off but from grade school through college I was singing all the time. In the 60's and 70's I was front man for a couple of good bands but there was no future in that. I was trained to sing by really good chorale directors. However, when it comes to band stuff I've got to put that aside and consider genre. Like I said above, Robert Plant can sing and Gene Clark could really sing but they're two different things.

I listened to parts of the OP's songs, because I wasn't that interested in the material but in general, he could carry a tune to some degree but then there are many singers in well known bands who can be described the same way.. Would I want him as a front man in band of mine? No, uh not on your life but again he didn't ask me that.

I'm old now and I smoked for thirty years while I pursued career for money. In the late 90's I came back to music, learning to play guitar, something I always wanted to do. I was given an opportunity to join a band and I did. I had quit smoking about three years before that but the voice was rough and I had breathing issues but as time went by and I exercised the voice, much of it came back, not all of it but much of it. I could kick myself for what I did lose. Now its good. I've been with that band for six years now and I love it. I can almost hit any note I can think of but once I could hit them all. So it goes.

Again I was pleasantly surprised by the music posted in your profile nice work, I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks for the conversation.

Des, I like your stuff, & would be glad to play along if we lived closer.

I, too, took some time off from performing, but I still played some during those dark years.

I dunno that I "enjoy" music as much as I simply cannot do without it. I seem to be driven to play, sometimes to write, or perfom. I imagine it hits you that way, too.

For what it's worth, Harmony Central was a lot more restrained in their critique. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... st37310528 Not sure what to make of that, maybe I'm more out of my league here (?) I know I could still use better phrasing and dynamics, and more practice on the "harsh" sound (probably drop Diary of Jane altogether for now). So thanks for bringing those problems to my attention. There's obviously conflicting opinion on whether I was really "pitchy" in the other 3 songs. If anyone can point out specific places where I was off-pitch at least a quarter tone I would like that a lot -- I am not hearing it (or I obviously would have fixed that first). Could it be that some of these long-time musicians have ultra-sensitive hearing, where they notice slight pitch differences that many musicians, and 99.9% of the general public would not? Remember that I don't have the benefit of automatic pitch correction. If even the recording artists need that, then why am I expected to be dead on as an amateur trying to get into a bar band?

The reason I'm concerned about this is that if I become hyper-sensitive about my pitch, it's going to be difficult to get a relaxed and natural sound, and to get into the song expressively (ie flow and dynamics will suffer).

Oh and in case anyone wants to refer to the originals for pitch reference -- Running Away is by Hoobastank, Anna Molly is by Incubus, and Here Without You is by Three Doors Down. Thanks again.

Guy, it's not very good and I was restraining myself.

I think these folks have been helpful to you, behave yourself or I'll give you a critique that will leave a mark.

Otherwise, if you do your best, that's really the best you can do and that's about as positive as it gets.

Don't you dare think that these folks are ripping you.
My critique would be a rip. They are trying to be helpful without killing you outright.

I'm sorry, how exactly am I misbehaving? I thought I asked some legitimate questions. I have always said thank you to the people who offered constructive criticism -- but not everyone does. I'm just trying to learn, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone by posting where I don't belong -- is that what you're trying to tell me? Anyone care to answer the questions though, instead of making threats? What kind of forum is this....WOW!

You know, when you tear someone down, it says more about you, your insecurities and your frustration with your life than it does about the target of your negativity.

But, rest assured, I've received the message that I need to continue to improve, and the harshness of some of this criticism will not deter me from continuing down this path.

That just earned you an "ATTABOY" from me, R2R.

I hope you can find someone to help you. Imho, a vocal coach is truly the way to go for you.

Just out of curiousity, though - why the nic change to bring new samples to us? Didja think we were just yankin' yer chain or something?