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Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on morality? Morality is highly subjective yet a common trait for all humans, not just Bible thumpers. Some people have highly-evolved morals and others have supressed theirs, but I would argue it's an inborn trait like language.

You are actually righter than you think . Carl Jung proved (in theory) that culture is now IN OUR GENES. Don't ask me to explain Carl Jung. On a scale of 1 to 10 on the IQ rating system I'm a -3 compared to Jung. What he theorized was that culture started so many milleniums ago that it is inherent in our genetics. It IS an inborn trait, since morality is part of our culture. HOWEVER, where did it start? Morality didn't happen by accident. It was originally taught. Although man may now have morality in our genes (a theory which I believe) it wasn't always inherent in us. It MUST have come from an outside source. Again, where science ends FAITH begins. Morality could only have come from God. I'm sure of it...Morality DIDN'T evolve naturally from organic molecules in some primordial ooze. No, it was GOD that provided us with morality.

There are too many loose morals today for sure. My concious wont let me get away with any BS. I answer to myself and my faith.

Another a day in Paradise !!!

I don't know, bob. I think morality could most likely have been developed along with our cultures. That would certrainly explain the differing varieties of "morality" when you look at different cultures. I don't see any outside interference necessary in its development.

Some cultures consider it a sin to eat shellfish & pigs. That was due to the fact that they began in deserts, probably. Since no shellfish or pigs were to be found there, to have them & eat them was considered ostentatious & decadent. Those cultures evolved to become intolerant of decadence.

Other cultures look at obesity as a sign of wealth, & they relish the show of that decadence, along with other attributes that we may find disturbing, like polygamy, for example.

Homo- & bisexuality are perfectly acceptable in some cultures, but not the judeo-christian-moslem ones.

Theft, in certain circumstances, is not only tolerated, but encouraged, in some cultures.

We, ourselves, seem to often hold the corrupt ppl in our own society to different standards of behavior than we do those who suffer from the actions of those corrupt ppl. It often seems as if regular ppl are are held to higher standards of behavior than the rich, or the famous.

Morality seems to be a rather fluid concept, really, that can change within any given society over time. We, ourselves, have had a LOT of changes in our standards of behavior, in those things we admire in others, & lots of other areas, just in my short life-span.

Philby, I took a number of courses in college A LONG TIME AGO, a few different courses in Psychology and Cultural Anthropology. One of my professors who had an IQ of 190 (that's just about off the chart) explained Jung's theory of inherited culture. I can't explain it, but when a professor whose IQ is obscenely high believes in an even more intelligent genius like Jung then maybe there's something to genetically inherited culture. Culture incorporates a host of different things including morality. When Jimmydanger argued that it was inborn trait, then based on at least two other people with IQ's off the chart I would say that it is most likely true that morality IS an inborn trait. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you have a higher morality than a non-Christian, but I would also say that TRUELY following the tenets of Christianity or any great religion strengthens the morality that IS an inborn trait. For sure you don't have to follow any religion and still have a high moral character.

IQ means nothing without something morally backing it. All are part part of the same, the same part of it and so on.... I've known peeps in very high places but none have stated their IQ as a pretension to anything. Not saying he did.

IQ v Intelligence, knowing this world? A concept beyond reach for many but I'm sure you will remember his name.

IQ means nothing without something morally backing it.

IQ has nothing to do with morality. They are two different things.

Morality is right and wrong. IQ is our measure of intelligence.

There are plenty of immoral people with high IQ, just as there are plenty of moral people with high IQ's. There are plenty of stupid people with good morals; and plenty without.

The most evil men history can offer up were of genius IQ.

I never said IQ has anything to do with morality. Nor did I say that high IQ has anything to do with being evil. When people of very high intelligence and learning believe that morality and culture is inherent well I can hardly argue with that. Their belief is based on extensive research. BUT research always leads back to one thing, where does this knowledge come from? It has to start somewhere. It doesn't come about by dumb luck. The whole purpose of my argument is that something sparked all this to begin with, and I, and people much smarter than I, BELIEVE IN GOD. Science can only reveal so much, and then there's only faith left. Many years ago I was at a religious revival. Going in I didn't believe in somebody speaking in tongues. I didn't believe frankly in the holy ghost. Being of a scientific mind I was skeptical. I witnessed people I knew speak in tongues, which is the language spoken at the time of Christ's life. These people NEVER took any language lessons, yet I witnessed this phenomenon. I also FELT the holy ghost go through me. I can't explain it other that I felt it and BELIEVED IT. I have FAITH that it happened. I believe it exists and I felt it personally.

I also FELT the holy ghost go through me.

I know this feeling Bob.
It is ................................ indesribable.

I also FELT the holy ghost go through me.

I know this feeling Bob.
It is ................................ indesribable.

Yeah and there was NO air movement at this Church I was in. The holy ghost HAD to be present at this event. There is absolutely NO way it could have been anything else. It was summoned by the preacher. The people speaking in tongues were NOT scholars of the language they were uttering. They were NOT in any kind of trance. I witnessed this and I'm a rational, sane, scientific person. And going in a non-believer. Believe or not believe, what I felt was REAL. Something went into the front of my chest and went out the back, like a gust of wind. I mean it goes THROUGH you. It's not a psychological phenomenon, it's not a figment of my imagination. It's real. I hope everybody experiences this someday.

I cannot argue with that and will not. However if you do have a higher IQ and you are either good or bad in any measure it will increase the final denominator won't it? Or am I missing something, probably am.

IQ means nothing without something morally backing it.

IQ has nothing to do with morality. They are two different things.
Morality is right and wrong. IQ is our measure of intelligence.

I suppose you could argue that I was speaking of cultural taboos more than the concept of "morality." The two often become entwined for many folk.

There is good reason to believe in genetic memory, & that, perhaps, can explain it, too, bob.

I, too, have felt that certain magic in group situations - the becoming a part of something bigger than yourself, & the feeling, well, I cannot describe it. For me, it happened in a cpl church situations, & in buddhist meetings where there was lotsa chanting going on, &, believe it or not, in a lot of musical settings, both where I was playing & where I was in the audience. Call it the "holy ghost," or mass hysteria, or even mass hypnosis, if you will.

I've witnessed a lot of that speaking in tongues that you refer to. It's very popular out here. Funny how it doesn't occur in many of the mainstream churches, I think. I dunno if it's real or just another part of that mass hysteria thing. Could ancient language also be inherited?

Whatever - I maintain that the concept of "morality" most likely began through a system of trial & error, in which the results of certain behaviors taught early ppl how to act more civilized. It isn't really mysterious or anything, & certainly wouldn't have needed outside or divine intervention to learn.

When a person actively tries to "steal" another person's chosen mate, for example, it causes problems for all parties involved, & these kind of troubles spill over to affect the entire tribal unit. Therefore, we must make this sorta thing a sin, to preserve the peace & tranquility of the tribe.

Same goes for any other rule of behavior we've developed that crosses cultural boundaries. These rules become inherited behavioral traits after awhile, & those who don't follow the rules are wiped out, or simply not allowed to bear children.

I also FELT the holy ghost go through me.

I know this feeling Bob.
It is ................................ indesribable.

Holy crap, a ghost went through you?? That does sound undesireable.

J/K, as I write this a trillion ghost particles (neutrinos) just went through my pinkie finger.

I cannot argue with that and will not. However if you do have a higher IQ and you are either good or bad in any measure it will increase the final denominator won't it? Or am I missing something, probably am.

IQ means nothing without something morally backing it.

IQ has nothing to do with morality. They are two different things.
Morality is right and wrong. IQ is our measure of intelligence.

I have no doubt that having a higher IQ is like beer - it just makes you more of who you already are If you're immoral, a high IQ is only going to make you more effective at being immoral.

[quote="fisherman bob"]Science can only reveal so much/quote]

You think so?

I don't believe that for a second.

I think science is only limited by technology and more importantly - TIME. Science can't learn everything there is to know in an instant. It takes time; it's a PROCESS that gathers information over TIME. It's fair to say we know more about our world and our universe than we knew 100 years ago. And 100 years ago, they knew more than the previous 100 years.

It's entirely possible that given enough time, science will figure everything out.