Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Here's something that might make you say "of course!"
But follow my thought process here. Even though you might know the answer, you should still find this interesting.

I play acoustic guitar, and I use the lightest gauge strings available.
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And I had a tuning problem w/ my guitar, for a while.
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But, every time I checked it, - it was in perfect tune.
I mean absolutely Perfect.
I have electronic tuners, and a really good ear . . .
Excellent tuning on my guitar.
Yet I could hear it 'go wrong' during a performance. I'd check it - and perfect tuning. Huh? What gives?
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I Knew it only happened with certain chords.
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I should mention that I apparently have an exceptional ear for tuning, by the way. Most people can NOT hear what I'm referring too. I've asked . . .
. . . yeah, anyway . . .
I noticed that it was one string only . . . 'B'
So . . .
>I checked the nut - nope - it's good.
>Bridge is good.
>Neck is excellent
>Perfect tune open, and perfect tune 1 octave up
>I'm not bending the string laterally; hey, I know what I'm doing, here.
>And - I'm not bending the string very much vertically, either, because the frets are worn a little, so the strings are close to the fretboard already. The frets were NOT the problem. (And, no the string wasn't sliding in and out of the fret groove).
>And, yes, there are tiny ditches between the frets, dug by my fingertips, but this problem appeared kinda suddenly. It wasn't my worn fretboard.
>and the fricking fret sure didn't move . . .
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The specific problem?
It turned out that my 'B' string was raising in pitch when I played "D," and "Gaug," and "Cadd2."
Well - it's not my guitar . . .
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My "B" string was .014
I changed it to .015.
That solved my problem completely - it was like night and day . . . like black and white.
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I don't know the gauge of your strings; just thought I'd mention it.

I realize the relationship of gauge and tension and length to vibration
speed. But I dont get what your hitting at RM. It would seem once tuned and the correct intonation set for gauge that it would not make any difference.

Yes, it would seem that way.
That's what the theory says.
That's what the science says.
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Expereince says different.
. . . and . . .
Experience trumps theory.
The facts remain: bumping my 'B' string up .001 improved the tuning.
Immensely.
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What am I getting at?
Bumping my 'B' string up .001 solved the tuning problem.
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Dunno why.
I don't care too much either - my guitar is in better tune w/ a .015 'B' string than a .014'

RhythmMan_BluesRockFolk wrote:Experience trumps theory.

Wise words have been spoken.

I will have to try that with my G.
Nothing worse than having G string problems up front in a Baptist Church.

I know you're just joking about G-strings and underwear.
Ha - ha (he said sarcastically).
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But - seriously, have you had a tuning problem w/ your G-String, or are you 100% just goofing around?

I bend on the G the most often when playing the lead parts. It seems to be the one string that is out most often as well. The fact that it matters little if playing my Strat or Paul. I do bend with only one finger predominently (Yes I know it's improper technique) I wonder if that has some effect.
The little sarcasm comes from a live show we were playing. Between songs I mentioned to Ray that I was "having trouble with my G string".
A lady up front heard my comment. I heard her exclaim "what did he say about a G string" in a rather excited tone. Fortunatly her husband seated next to her explained that "Its one of the strings on his guitar honey"
"Oh" she said blushing.

Well, with lead - it's supposed to be higher when you bend it, for a lilting effect.
I was talking about playing straight chords . . . and not intentionally (or noticably) bending it.
And, as I posted, I was referring to a string that is in tune open and an octave up, both before and after a song is played.

I understood exactly what you were refering to but did not apparently make myself clear. I was thinking aloud that perhaps the same solution would decrease the loss of tune to my G that occures from playing the bends. As mntioned before room temp does effect my guitar, but even after it stabalizes the G is usually the only one out after a song or set of songs when I check the tuning.

Yeah, temperature and humidy will both affect guitars.
But - seeing as there was no humidity or temperature change from before playing the song to after playing . . . that's irelevant.
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But - seeing as you brought it up;
With acoustic guitars you'll see a very quick response to higher humidity - the wood swells, and the strings will all be sharp, most noticably Low 'E' and "A.'
Usually High E, B, and G are not unaffected very much at all.
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Also, to a lesser degree, temperature does the same thing.
Because temperature will affect tuning - before tuning my guitar, I always warm up the neck and the strings with my palms, because my body temperature slightly changes the string length. Not much, because the difference is usually only 25 - 35 degrees or so.
The strings have a coefficient of expansion much, much higher than the wooden neck, but are essentially unaffected by humidity.
Wood has a negligible coefficient of thermal expansion.
The coefficient of thermal expansion is expressed as a percentage of change in length per degree centigrade.
With solid metals, you might see a coefficient of thermal expansion in the order of - say - .0001 - .006%.
It is all dependent upon the metals. Every metal has a different coefficient of thermal expansion.
With wire-wound strings, the formula is unbelievably complicated . . .
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ummm, yeah . . .
. . .
Any - way . . .
My point was that my 'B' string was still in tune after playing.

But the .014 'B' string was out of tune while playing, and the .015 'B' string is in tune while playing.
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. . . whatever . . .

Ahh - I just remembered something . . .
When I change strings, my Low E, A, D and G strings all have notches in them from the frets - all the way up to the 14th or 15th fret.
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Ok - that's kinda irelevant, but - the highe E and B strings don't have any notches.
So - yeah, ok - they're not wire-wound . . .
But - and this probably IS relevant - they have do have scalopping when I remove them.
They have little mountains and valleys from where they've been pressed down between the frets, thousands of times . . . they come off rippled . . .
So there has to be microscopic stress-fractures in the metal, or something . . .
. . .
There's a lot to think about w/ tuning . . . but fresh strings aren't always the answer . . .
This is getting too complicated . . .

Good thread none the less.
Though my little problem is fundamentally different I am going to see what happens when I move up from .017 to .018 or so on the G.
On my next trip to town (with a few bucks to spare) I am going to review the string selection at the local shop to see If I can find a set to rob a .018 D'Addario from.

Do what I do.
I have brand new sets of strings at home of several types.
And I have individual strings which I've bought of certain diameters.
You can swap'm at an instance notice . . .
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I used to replace just my single 'D' and 'G' strings first, because of all the notching which appears on the fret-side of those strings first . . .
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Man, what a cool sound you get when you replace just a couple strings . . . the 'accents' on the chords are all different . . .
It really makes you think about what you're playing. . .

Hum. I do have a lot of strings in my kit. Various makes. I'll go through them first before I drop any more pennies.
Thanks for the heads up. Why didnt I think of that?

yah I've thought about changing a few strings, but I play 4 string so I'm not supposed to be concerned with chords and string emphasis, I think I'll fiddle with that stuff over the weekend it should be fun, might even try to layer in a lil guitar (not that I know much of anything) and my acoustic doesn't like to tune properly, I'm pretty sure I need to get even longer strings for the blooming thing if I can even find them around here