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Speakers, amps.

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#221689 by Starfish Scott
Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:01 pm
So I have this Yamaha EMX 300 and it's a bit of a sh*t.

It produces some warm, clear and clean tones that otherwise are not that easy to reproduce. ( I don't mic anything but vocals )

So it calls for YAMAHA speakers (2) S4115H (mains) and (2) A4115H (monitors).

They are powered speakers as far as I can tell.
All 4 seem to be 100 watts continuous and about 250 program is my guess.

Anyone have a good suggestion about what mains/monitors I could use instead of these antiquated speakers>?

Seems like every set of speakers I hook up don't really want to work correctly with this powered mixer. I hate like hell to get rid of it because it sounds great but I am sick and tired of having to use even older junk because I can't get the mixer to perform correctly.

I just had the mixer gone over by a tech pal of mine and he said it's a thing of beauty. (If you like clean and clear)

I am just wondering what would be comparable to those speakers as I am kind of scratching my head about now.

I am not really looking to go "power amp" yet, as I'd need 2 power amps to run the monitors/mains that I was using before, so they are on the back line waiting.

I'd really just like to find an inexpensive substitute for the mains and monitors and go back to using this powered mixer.

I'm getting ready to sell my '67 Kustom K200 PA head and the (2) 5 speaker columns, but I can't do that until I get this straight considering that's the only working PA I have at the moment.

Suggestions? (echoooo) uh-oh.. lol (turn reverb down) Ok then..
So what do ya know? Any help is mucho appreciated...

#221695 by GuitarMikeB
Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:00 pm
That's a powered mixer, so assume you want passive (unpowered) main speakers, but maybe powered monitors?

What's your price range? Peavy PV12 or PV15 would be on the low end with clear sound or go with the PV115 if you don't want plastic cabinets.
For medium $$ JBL makes some awesomely clear unpowered cabinets.

I've been keeping my eyes out for powered PA speakers, for the new duo. Saw some Gemini 8" for $99, and this week on ebay a pair of 15" for $239 'buy-it-now'. The last thing I want to be moving around are 60 lb cabinets, though! :roll: Geminis can't be cranked up at all, they clip, but for the acoustic act, they'd work. Luckily, maybe, I've only got $6 in my paypal, so buying ANYTHING on ebay right now isn't going to happen! HEY, will you guys go buy a copy of my new album on bandcamp or kunaki, so I can get more paypal money? 8)

#221699 by Starfish Scott
Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:30 pm
MIKE, are you fully awake?

YES, powered mixer it is, padewon.
Yes, the original speakers are powered speakers and in order for it to work as original, I surmise you need more powered speakers. I thought I was clear about that, I guess I wasn't. Excuse me..

It runs 100W per speaker continuously, which I have heard of referred to as about 250 watts program. I really need info from someone that knows for sure.

So yeah, they would need to be powered mains and powered monitors.

It's like a double negative.. powered, low power speakers at about 250w.
Sounds easy, right? Wrong. I've tried a few things now and either they sound like mud or they want more than 250w to adequately function.

I've got better mains and monitors, but I don't feel like buying 2 power amps and a rack setup to use them. Worse yet they are Yamaha passive stuff and weigh TONS more then the mixer and those crappy older speakers that the powered mixer calls for.

I'm getting ready to just bite the bullet, sell the warm board that you love to use and get something newer along the Yamaha line.

(gulp) But I really don't want to..not unless I have no choice at all.

#221703 by sanshouheil
Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:21 pm
I must be sleepy too.

Powered mixer requires passive speakers.
Unless of course you only routing signal from the mixer ( in which case the "power" has been by passed )

I run the PV115s along side ( or on top of) my Carvin 2x15+horn towers with crossovers.
And off of separate amps when using my "non-powered" mixer.
With the RX1200 powered mixer ( 4 built in 500 watt amps ) the PV115s are all I need for mains.
They sound great up close and at mid range, where as the towers have a longer throw.

#221707 by Starfish Scott
Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:02 pm
It's an 800 watt powered mixer that uses powered speakers, but don't take my word for it, READ THE MANUAL>.

http://www.manualowl.com/m/Yamaha/EMX30 ... 032?page=1

JW sent it to me, blame him. LOL

Page 7 says all speakers are 250w at 4 ohms.

Page 10 tells me just by looking at the diagram that the damn thing wants S4115H for mains and A4115H for monitors. (Doesn't even look like there is any difference between the 2 types. If I had 4 S4115H's, I'd just hook them all up and pray that it was ok. (bafffmmmmttzzzz)(oh sh*t))

It looks like to me that it wants a powered speaker to go at either 100w continuous or 250w passives. The problem is that every 250w passive I have used has sounded like sh*t. (GNASH CHOMP GRRRRRR)

There should be some damn speaker out there that is a pretty close replica of what I need for this funked up setup. I don't know if it's passive or powered, but I need 4 total/2 mains and 2 monitors.

I just had 2 Sunn 212SR's hooked up to this thing and it was awful.
Sounded like "mudmen arise"..great if i am making a monster movie.

And the only thing worse than not knowing what to do is having to buy an old power amp to attach to this antique..like a P2050 - P2200.
(yuck)

Ok, now I am going outside to scream at the top of my lungs.. lol

Ooh and congrats, I am doubting myself now.
I really don't know if these are passive or powered. I think they are powered.

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/ ... 4115HE.pdf
http://www.ep-service.nl/joomla/downloa ... 15h_en.pdf

Ok, I feel better now.. The A4115H manual says definitively that they are powered speakers..

Don't ask me what they are doing if I knew, I wouldn't be asking..

Nice powered mixer, but it's a pain in the ass especially since it's looking like locate those speakers or forget about using this thing they way it was originally used. (DOH)

#221709 by GuitarMikeB
Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:27 pm
Scott - do you have those Yammie speakers, or you are just looking for equals?

The mains, S5115 are NON-powered. These would be hooked up to the 'F' jacks (see the EMX300 manual).
The monitors, A4115 are powered. These would be hooked up to the 'K' outputs for separate control of the monitor mix, or the 'J' outputs if you wanted the same thing coming through them as the mains.

You can always tell powered speakers (if you have them) - they have a power cable as well as the signal cable from the mixer.
If you hook up powered main speakers to the 'F' jacks, they are going to sound like sh!t because you're running wrong impedances, and overloading the powered speaker inputs. If you're hooking up powered speakers for your mains, use the 'J' outputs.

I'd still recommend the Peaveys as your unpowered mains.

#221719 by Starfish Scott
Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:28 am
Mike you are choking me out, man. lol

If I had the speakers, do you think I would be asking for substitutes>?

(head in hands)

As for which is powered vs which aren't, I have no f**k clue.
If I had the speakers, I'd be using them.

I had a set that someone lent me and they were powered, but to tell the truth I don't really know if they were the A4115h or the S4115h.
(no label on back) (doh-doh)

They both look the same to me...(ugghh)

LOL Yes I am familiar with the fact that you plug in a powered speaker.
The ones I was using were plugged in as well, as into the wall as well as into the little labeled outputs...

And I believe I plugged them into the monitor jacks since I am fairly sure they were monitors, not mains.

The whole point is that I don't know of a good substitute for either the monitors or the mains, but I don't have either and they aren't easy to get.

People want a lot of jing for that nonsense.

lol I know I am not using Sunn 212SR's.. lol
They don't sound right as a monitor or a main.
I know because I tried it both ways..

Which Peavey for mains?

I wish i could just use the S215V's for my mains and the S115IV's for my monitors, but I need 2 power amps and a 10u rack if I am going that route.

WARNING ELF'S LIFE FORCE IS DRAINING, NEED MORE $$$.
Please insert quarter.. lol

#221729 by GuitarMikeB
Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:32 pm
The Peavey PV12s as non-powered mains, hooked up to the F jacks on the mixer. 100 watts/channel is not very much, it won't be real loud, not sure what you need for volume.

Any half-decent powered speakers hooked up to the J jacks on the mixer should give you a good sound - if not, then the mixer is the problem.

Maybe you could use the main power for non-powered monitors (use the F jacks) and use powered main speakers for more volume.

#221732 by Starfish Scott
Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:47 pm
lol

"100W continuous" is different than 100W.

It's really like 250W program. In Yamahaesque..it'd be 125/250/500.

As in line/program/maximum.

And yeah it's loud, but not without the crappy speakers they want you to use that basically do not exist anymore.

If I had all 4 speakers like I am supposed to, it's louder than is comfortable and yet warm and clean. Plus you get the 2 monitors that sound like $.

The problem is that I have no good idea of any substitute at this point and I have had some 4 pairs of PA speakers hooked up to this thing at one time or another.

The mixer has been tested thoroughly, I had it to the tech I take all my stuff to and he wants it. He states that it sounds good if you have the right speakers but he's at a loss to give me reasonable substitutes for that which I don't currently own.

And he has the mains, that's why he wants the mixer.
He even offered me good money for the board, I just do not want to release it. I've dealt with sterile PA's before and even though this bitch still has VU meters on it, is sounds like something better than I am used to for sure.

Curse you Yamaha for making this difficult...I feel like I have to take this bitch to Guitard Center/Sam's Ass and just start trying out whatever mains and monitors that they have in stock to see what works the best..

And this board is heavy...good god.
I don't mind humping it to whatever AO I am working with, but I don't want to take it to a place like that. It turns into a freak show and that's the last thing I am looking for at this point.

If this keeps up, I'll just have to bite the bullet. Save my pennies until I can afford 2 power amps, a 10u rack and use the stuff I already have.

I wish I had a reliable contact within Yamaha I could consult..

"Sleepless in NJ". lol

#221735 by sanshouheil
Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:48 pm
I'm sorry.

I read the PDF.

The "powered" speaker outputs for the mains are designed for passive speakers wired in parallel with a 4 ohm load.
The ohm load will determine how hard the on-board amplifiers will drive the speakers. I.E. 150 watts RMS @ 4 ohm

If you have indeed plunged active speakers into these outputs ( that are also plugged into 120v a/c ) this is the problem.
The auxiliary outputs are signal only and do not route through the on-board amplifiers.
They can be used to feed signal to active speakers. ( monitors )

The Rx1200 I use as a back up or for smaller venues has four amps, two for the mains @ 4ohm each and two for the monitors @ 4 ohm each ( 500 watts RMS @ 4 ohm )

They can also be bypassed altogether or separate side path signals of mains and monitors can be sent to off board amplifiers for more "firepower".
If you do look into a different system I would encourage you to look at Carvins powered mixers.
They have a lot of features for the price point.

All this tech stuff is really confusing to type about.
Be nice if we could physically look at it together.

Any rate . . . I know you'll work it out.
Best wishes.

#221740 by GuitarMikeB
Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:57 pm
Check out Carvin speakers, except you are never going to see them in a store, as they sell direct. http://www.carvinguitars.com/speakers/

If good speakers don't sound good when plugged into the board (making sure you don't have powered speakers plugged into the powered ouputs)
then the board is at fault. There should be no reason to 'match' Yammie speakers to the board.

#221749 by sanshouheil
Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:49 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:Check out Carvin speakers, except you are never going to see them in a store, as they sell direct. http://www.carvinguitars.com/speakers/

If good speakers don't sound good when plugged into the board (making sure you don't have powered speakers plugged into the powered ouputs)
then the board is at fault. There should be no reason to 'match' Yammie speakers to the board.



Avoid the one's in the plastic cabinets like the plague.

#221761 by GuitarMikeB
Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:58 am
sanshouheil wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:Check out Carvin speakers, except you are never going to see them in a store, as they sell direct. http://www.carvinguitars.com/speakers/

If good speakers don't sound good when plugged into the board (making sure you don't have powered speakers plugged into the powered ouputs)
then the board is at fault. There should be no reason to 'match' Yammie speakers to the board.



Avoid the one's in the plastic cabinets like the plague.


Why's that? Not well-made?

#221771 by sanshouheil
Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:15 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:
sanshouheil wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:Check out Carvin speakers, except you are never going to see them in a store, as they sell direct. http://www.carvinguitars.com/speakers/

If good speakers don't sound good when plugged into the board (making sure you don't have powered speakers plugged into the powered ouputs)
then the board is at fault. There should be no reason to 'match' Yammie speakers to the board.



Avoid the one's in the plastic cabinets like the plague.


Why's that? Not well-made?


I had a set of the two way 15s. I was never happy with the way they sounded. Tough as nails, never any mechanical issues.
But the more I learned about producing live sound, the less I utilized them.
The Peavey 115's I have beat them easily in sound quality and throw.
If I were to hazard a guess I would say the plastic housing was not compatible with the bass frequencies.

I sold them, never got any complaints from the purchaser .
But I cannot recommend them for that reason.

#221787 by GuitarMikeB
Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:26 pm
I've been eying the 10" and 12" plastic ones, for acoustic/vocals I don't think the bass response is so crucial.
I've heard the same comments about the Mackie 12" Thumps, too (lack of bass power), I think its inherent in plastic-cased PA speakers in general. They sure are easier to schlep around than heavy wood ones, though!

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