P.A. Equipment

Thanks guys but I am still in over my head.

I am guessing that the very best I am going to be able to do is to grab a Yamaha p7000s and a QSC RMX 2450 and run what I already have.

I found 1 S4115H today for 100$ AND THE speaker cone was ripped.
The guy was like, "uh that can be repaired".

I was like, "yeaaah riiight".

There was a Yammie 4115 (the powered one) on craigslist near Boston this past weekend - just one, though.

I pulled the trigger this morning on Musicians Friend 'Stupid Deal of the Day' - the Gemini 10" powered speaker for $99.95, free shipping. Just one, but that's all I would need for small acoustic act venues anyway. Now I've got to find a stupid deal on a speaker stand! They had the 8" model as a stupid deal for the same price 2 weeks ago, guessing that Gemini is phasing these out or redesigning them.

There was a Yammie 4115 (the powered one) on craigslist near Boston this past weekend - just one, though.

I pulled the trigger this morning on Musicians Friend 'Stupid Deal of the Day' - the Gemini 10" powered speaker for $99.95, free shipping. Just one, but that's all I would need for small acoustic act venues anyway. Now I've got to find a stupid deal on a speaker stand! They had the 8" model as a stupid deal for the same price 2 weeks ago, guessing that Gemini is phasing these out or redesigning them.

Follow-up on the Gemini - what I expected for $99. Start cranking it up past 1/2 way and the distortion and tone suffers greatly. It'll work for what I need it for (assuming I get the need), and will serve adequately as a monitor if a better PA system is available.

The 4115H was a pretty sweet sounding speaker in it's day. I worked with them for a while and they never let me down. They are heavy though.

As to using the mixer, Mike is right. You can run passive speakers from the EMX speaker main out (internal amplifier), and powered speakers from the line level out. The EMX is a little workhorse once you learn how to use it. Any good quality speaker will work as long as you don't go below 4 ohms.

Good luck!

Avoid the one's in the plastic cabinets like the plague.

Why's that? Not well-made?

Mike,

Sans and I are in stark disagreement about plastic cabinet speakers. It will probably always be this way and that is ok. Different strokes for different folks.

From my perspective it's all about the components and cabinet tuning, while cabinet materials are only important for weight savings. You can put cheapy-cheezy boom and sizzle components in a birch ply box or a polypropolene box and they will sell cheap and sound like poo as expected. If you put top-of-the-line components in a tuned birch ply box or a tuned poly box they will cost a lot more and both sound amazing. Trust your ears cause it ain't your mama's plastic box speaker.

Top shelf Mackie, JBL, EV, and QSC poly box speakers sound as good as anything, anywhere. Pros in SoCal have been gigging successfully with them for 20 years and the list of musicians who swear by them is long.

Choose wisely!

J7 - that's what I figured, I just thought George may have had specific info on the Carvins. I know folks using JBL Eons (plastic) and the sound is good, the mid-grade Mackies (not sure about the low level Thumps, though).

I had an interesting experience last weekend that drove a few things home for me.

On Sat morning I went to a large car show. They had two sound systems, one was a low cost Behringer plastic box PA owned by the city. The other was a sound company $50K all EV Pro tri-amped system with large radial horns, mid cabs and 18" subs. Later that day I went to two weddings. One had older JBL M series birch ply speakers, the other had Mackie 450 plastic 12" 2way cabs.

My impressions:

The Behringer PA was poorly set up, used cheap, knock off mics, suffered from feedback and sounded like poo. I was embarrassed for the city sound guy.

The $50K Pro EV sound system sounded amazing as expected and would easily cover 3000 people.

The JBL M series DJ sounded just ok. It didn't suck but it wasn't great either.

The Mackie 450 plastic boxes on sticks sounded amazing. They did not run subs and the speakers were placed behind some light shrubbery so people couldn't see them. I had to go look to see what was producing such excellent sound. They could not reproduce huge LF kick drum below 50hz without subs but in terms of clarity, definition, dynamics, full range sound with rich deep bass tones these Mackie 450s rivaled the quality of a $50K pro sound system heard earlier in the day. This was a large outdoor wedding with 175 guests and the Mackies easily covered the whole area without straining or clipping. Impressive for a sound system that fits into a compact car and the speakers weigh less than 50 lbs.

The takaway: There is no substitute for quality gear and competent sound techs. Tools and talent are required. Any of these systems could have sounded pretty good if the operators were skilled at their craft. The Behringer and JBL guys lacked basic knowledge and their sound was far below the systems capabilities. The pro EV and Mackie DJ teams chose high-end gear and knew their business well. It was reflected in excellent results and they were complimented by many in attendance.

One of the guys running open mics around here has a pair of Mackie 10" 350s. For the smaller venues, he runs one on a stand and one as a monitor on the floor. for the larger rooms, the pair on stands and another monitor, he never has to crank it up far and the sound is clear.
There are 2 or 3 price levels of Behringer powered speakers - the lower priced ones are ok, just as long as you don't push them to the distortion level for more volume. Plugging into a good mixer with EQ is also recommended rather than plugging directly into the speaker 'preamp' input.

When I was playing around with the new Gemini speaker, at first I tried EQing with the 7-band EQ on my mixer, but it made little difference to the sound until I turned down the speaker volume control and pushed up the mixer volume slider. Adjusting volume controls correctly can make a huge difference in the sound. Signal chain for the mic: Gain - channel volume - mixer main volume - speaker line-in volume - speaker main volume; for the acoustic guitar: guitar preamp - Gain - channel volume - mixer main volume - speaker line-in volume - speaker main volume.
Have respect for the Soundman who gets it right and pity for the one who doesn't!

To maximize you're existing mixer, you would want (4) passive/unpowered speakers, two for mains, two for monitors. Lot of good choices out there. Call Mike at Audiopyle ([email protected] , 707-315-6204 ) about RCF ART 3 series. Compact, lightweight, inexpensive, blows away most competitors. FBT is another good choice from his list of products.

EV also has a lines of powered and unpowered at very reasonable prices. The ELX 112 passive is a much better speaker than your old Yammies, But the thing is, the power your mixer is putting out is a little week. So upgrade the Mixer to a Yamaha EMX512SC or the EMX 1514C. Those will drive any good speaker( EV's, RCFs, FBT's, etc. ) properly. That will leave you with two mains and two monitors, there bare minimum, and no subs.

Alternately, many have gone to powered speakers and passive mixers, especially the newer digital mixers that can have use you an I-Pad as part of the mixing controller. With this setup, it is easy to scale the system. One just adds speakers and subs as needed. The built in power and DSP make these powered speakers foolproof, and get excellent results.

For speakers that sound great and are still affordable, I'd look at RCF ART series, EV ELX, and Alto. A step up would be JBL, QSC, but those are almost double the cost.

Trying to mix passive speakers and powered speakers using a powered mixer is possible, just not ideal.

Allthumbs..geeze can you even read?

The problem is the standard default configuration for a EMX 300 powered mixer is (2) Yamaha 4115H un powered as mains and 2 Yamaha 4115A which are powered.

This mixer is a nice little piece when you get it right but if you never used one, you haven't got even the slightest clue.

The Yamaha 4115H or A are not easy to get, nor replace.

It's not a plug and play situation..and the equipment isn't from last year.
You have to know a little about what it is and what it does.

100 W continuous isn't the same as 100 W program, but that seems to trip up just about every would be technician yet.

I was using some 250W program un powered mains and that seems to be ok. Now all I have to do is find a reasonable set of powered monitors about 250 W that would ok and it's a nice little setup.

Trying to talk about something you didn't really know about is inadvisable and makes one look like a moron. This is why you don't let people set up your equipment, they often know less than you do about it.

PS: Don't use your ipad for anything or your videos will look like the utter sh*t I posted here a couple months back. Check the forum, the you tube links are still there.

Actually, the new digital mixers that allow an iPad control surface are a great tool. The soundman can walk around the venue and check sound, and adjust all standard parameters remotely. No more 'it sounds ok where I'm standing' excuses.
Even better are the systems that allow the players on stage to adjust THEIR monitor mix with an iPad!

If I had a dollar for every sh*t Iphone video that I've seen lately, Id be loaded.

The worst is the fact that the iphone is auto focus.. LOL

That and no one of these geniuses want to use a tripod.
(oh my head)

As for using the iphone to control the mixer?
Ask the sound guy whoever that is..

PS: If you whip out your Ipad/Iphone in an attempt to change the sound setup after the sound guy has already made the adjustments, I'd break your phone and stomp you till you bled.

If you are dumb enough to play without a sound check, you get what you deserve.

Leave your Iphone at home unless you have decided to be the new sound guy, instead of being a performer.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel, you just have to sound like you are adept at playing whatever music you are playing on any given night.

Q: And how many nitwits think they know better than the sound guy on duty?

A: All of them.

Leave your iphone at home, Charlie Brown...leave the sound to the sound guys.

starfish scott I would say that regardless of brand ,altho brands really matter in a lot of cases . your, in my opinion are not going to get a clear sound or anything else for that matter out of a 400 watt setup .
Im a huge fan of Jbl and Mackie as I have been running these brands for many years now with the worlds best as well , ( EAW ) which stands for eastern acoustic works .. all my stuff is powered and total wattage is around 7,500 watts . this system allows me to run as lil or as much as I want through it and the system does not run hard at all. I have had this sytem for around 9 years now and still performs awesome . super deep lows with crystal clear mids n highs . I recommend getting by with what you have and invest in some powered cabs with a good passive board . great sound and easy to setup ! anyways just my opinion

Always try to match the wattage of the speakers and the amp as closely as possible .