Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Ok, I just spent a lot of time driving to about 10 or 11 different music stores this past week looking for a new set of high hats. I have had my old high hats for about 36 years and just thought I would try something new. I have three things to say about new high hats made today… crap, Crap, CRAP!
So anyway, finding an obscure little drum shop at the middle of no name anywhere, I finally found a pair of hand forged cymbals with the maker’s soul imbedded in the hammered bronze. These handmade cymbals are almost alive. “I asked the guy if Gizmo was in the back room” When I change my technique the cymbals change with it.

Anyway, I put up a new boring drum track called Drum thunder with the new high hats.

I guess I do have a question. Is anyone else finding cymbals made today are nothing more than handmade pressed hubcaps?

Steve-O purchased a hand hammered China crash made in ...
You guessed it CHINA ...

The bell is even a little lopsided and the mount hole is off center.

You can also tell without a micrometer that the thickness varies considerably.

This thing is magically rude.

Steve asked me to drill some holes equally spaced around the perimeter to see how it would affect the sound.

First attempt was with an 1 1/4 " bit mounted in a drill press. There was no way to brace or mount the cymbal to remove all the vibration from the drill process ... and I have enough machining experience to stop before I had a catastrophic failure.

Eventually just made small holes with a hand drill and enlarged them gradually with a Dremil tool and sanding drums.

It's still rude ... with a slightly brighter tone and faster decay

WE LOVE it for emphasis in our heavier tunes.


P.S. The cymbals on the recoding sound bright and crisp.
I like em more forward in the mix myself but hey ... that's just me.

Holes in China, I'll have to try that some day, thanks.

RGMixProject wrote:Ok, I just spent a lot of time driving to about 10 or 11 different music stores this past week looking for a new set of high hats. I have had my old high hats for about 36 years and just thought I would try something new. I have three things to say about new high hats made today… crap, Crap, CRAP!
So anyway, finding an obscure little drum shop at the middle of no name anywhere, I finally found a pair of hand forged cymbals with the maker’s soul imbedded in the hammered bronze. These handmade cymbals are almost alive. “I asked the guy if Gizmo was in the back room” When I change my technique the cymbals change with it.

Anyway, I put up a new boring drum track called Drum thunder with the new high hats.

I guess I do have a question. Is anyone else finding cymbals made today are nothing more than handmade pressed hubcaps?

If you have followed my discussion with Slacker about Walmart cost margins, you'll most likely have the answer to your question

BTW, I'm thinking there is some Irony in that Walmart system. Lot of the cheap goods come from Asia, but...., I do believe you could possibly find and order up hand crafted / bronze forged cymbals from various provinces in Asia. It might take some research but it might well be worth the effort.

PaperDog wrote:

RGMixProject wrote:Ok, I just spent a lot of time driving to about 10 or 11 different music stores this past week looking for a new set of high hats. I have had my old high hats for about 36 years and just thought I would try something new. I have three things to say about new high hats made today… crap, Crap, CRAP!
So anyway, finding an obscure little drum shop at the middle of no name anywhere, I finally found a pair of hand forged cymbals with the maker’s soul imbedded in the hammered bronze. These handmade cymbals are almost alive. “I asked the guy if Gizmo was in the back room” When I change my technique the cymbals change with it.

Anyway, I put up a new boring drum track called Drum thunder with the new high hats.

I guess I do have a question. Is anyone else finding cymbals made today are nothing more than handmade pressed hubcaps?

If you have followed my discussion with Slacker about Walmart cost margins, you'll most likely have the answer to your question

BTW, I'm thinking there is some Irony in that Walmart system. Lot of the cheap goods come from Asia, but...., I do believe you could possibly find and order up hand crafted / bronze forged cymbals from various provinces in Asia. It might take some research but it might well be worth the effort.

That is a good idea however, I must hear and play a cymbal before I buy it. Anything mail order must have a 100% return policy or I just simply don't buy it.

When I starting changing my cymbal set up in 1997, I started researching the main 3 cymbal companies top lines. I chose Sabian because their cymbals sound the most even across the board. Zildjian had flat sounding hats in their top lines!!! How did that get by quality check?
I play AA, AAX, HH, HHX, Terry Bozzio Radia cup chimes, Mike Portnoy Max Stax, and Neil Peart Paragon crashes and it started with 13" AAX Fusion Hats the day after clinics by Mike Portnoy and Terry Bozzio.

I had some older Zildjian and some Paiste Sig. Series that I thought were tremendous but not in the market for acoustic stuff anymore so I dont know how the quality fairs today, I know the prices are off the wall though..

I had some older Zildjian and some Paiste Sig. Series that I thought were tremendous but not in the market for acoustic stuff anymore so I dont know how the quality fairs today, I know the prices are off the wall though..

I've not found any good cymbals since the 80's the closest I've found now a days is the meinl higher end I use to be a paiste fan not now . I think over mass production is ruining some of these companies products.

I agree that new cymbals are junk, however, there are a few exceptions. All B8 cymbals as machine stamped and hammered for high volume manufacturing. Therefore, they all sound the same. B20 cymblals must me rolled and hand hammered into shape, that's why they cost more. I play old Paiste 602 cymbals from the mid 1960's. Thier alloy was from spent ordinance shells from WWII. The new 602's are close to the old formulation, but not quite there. Buy B20's for the best sound. If you need a trash cymbal, any Sabian will do!

Funny we were just watching John Bonham the other night and I thought his 15" hihats would not be what I look for, maybe he flipped em? it was his sound though like a loud ringing bell, I miss the man

Happy with my cheap 14" Meinl's to me they are as good as the 14" Zilijen Newbeats I had 30 years ago.

Sometimes you get more than you pay for.

Funny how folks always preferred the stamped hammered cheap Pearl ride cymbal a buddy of mine has over their own $400 ride cymbal.

I don't purchase cymbals as I once did. I basically have the tones I have looked for, but I will say Paiste Signatures and UFIP Class series remain pristine instruments.

Having had Sabian make cymbals for me not in their catalog, I can't say enough good things about that company. I've never gotten a Sabian lemon. Zildjian, on the other hand, I just stopped purchasing because of lemons and even cracked cymbals coming new to me from the factory (twice). Yeah, where is quality control.

I've never owned a Meinel. I've never seen quality control issues about them.

Cymbals have changed over the years. With the advent of larger sticks and louder music cymbals have gotten thicker, it seems. I have a 40 year old A Zildjian medium-heavy Ping ride. Today's A Ping rides seem more clunky or gongy-sounding, and heavier than back then.

In over 25 years of playing I have only 2 cymbals. The first was a Zildjian K 16: Dark Crash that only had a small crack at the hole, and the second was a friend of mine's 13" Zildjian K Hi Hat top but it was paired with a camber bottom and I just shaved the edge off about 3 inches.

I own Zildjians, Zildjian K, Zildjian A, and Zildjian K Customs and Zildjian Platinums (circa 1987) as well as Sabians, Sabian Paragons, and I have found them to all be superior in sound quality and durability. No issues.

I have never played the cheaper lines of Zildjian and Sabian so I can't speak to them, just never liked their sound.....